Hi Folks,
I would like your ponderances on the following if I could be so bold.
I have, one assembled board, 48" x 14", don't ask me metric at this stage.
The track (single line) must enter bottom left at right angles to the long side at the boards lleft limits. 9" radius curve exiting the board at the right hand end on the short side.
I have two 12" Peco Electrofrogs, 1 left, 1 Right.
My stock list is modest, 3 Colin Ashby's,3 Nine Lines Talyllyn Coaches NL24, 1 Saddle tank 0-6-0, 1 Directors Inspection Vehicle, 1 proposed 0-4-0 tank loco, 2 open three planks, 3 vans, 3 brake vans.
Limited funds suggest I do not buy any more points ( I have 2yds of track, this I could add to).
My take is, a station platform with a long siding behind it, like a bay, main line continues through, the sideing is off the straight side of the right hand point at the station throat, entering left to right as per track description, so that the main line runs off the turn out. ( if you get my drift).
As we exit the station we cross an opposing left hand point, this point leads to a long siding incorporating a turn table, off the turn table we have a through sideing to a goods yard, then at radii off the table, an engine shed, two roads, a coach works, and a loco service area/coal stage, an other sideing.
The layout ( Griffendon) is freelance.
Does this simplistic solution sound too rediculous or just novel enough.
I welcome your thoughts if my description is explicit enough. Mike
With two points and a turntable, you could use one point for a station loop and the turntable as a sector plate closing it. This leaves the second point for another siding. You then have three roads and scope for Inglenook sidings type shunting as well as having a run-around. Exiting the turntable you could have an engine shed and coaling/ash wagon road.
The second siding could run though a goods yard and/or second platform to your coach works. With the run around you could draw a train in, run round it, pull back and push into the coach works.
I would be restrained/subtle in the use of the turntable as a through road and a replacement for points for making more sidings or it could look a little odd - unless you went the whole hog and made a roundhouse.
Thanks Graeme,
Thats an interesting way of doing things, I'm not sure I quite understand the term "inglenook shunting". The roundhouse is not really how I'd see things.
Thanks again. rgds Mike
Hi Mike,
My apologies for the lack of clarity. I wrote it when I woke up in the middle of the night with a sore throat and couldn't get back to sleep! :(
Inglenook sidings - a shunting puzzle layout:
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/sw-inglenook.html
Ignoring the strict restrictions on siding capacity that turns the configuration into a puzzle, the idea of three sidings together opens up a lot of scope for shunting.
Hi again Graeme, I might be incorrect but I looked at your suggestion again, I believe I would have to use the second point to re-enter the main line for a run arround, I do fancy a runarround loop but I will have to look into it a little deeper. Thanks again, Mike
Graeme, thanks for the explanation and Wymann link, very usefull and a great imagination stirrer, I may forgo the run round to use this or adopt the run round using the turn table to establish the Inglenook using the loop as you suggest, as they say overr here, thanks a mil, Mike
OK, it appears that by keeping the main line to the rear of the board, entering right hand point immediately after the entry curve, I can position the centre of the turn table approximatly 31" into the board from the left edge, by doing this the run round loop can be used, under caution, as a passing loop also. The engine shed, carriage works, sidings etc; can easily fan off the table with no further point requirement, simples, :). Well done that man Graeme. cheers, Mike
Sorry Mike - in my bunged up snuffly state I missed the vital information that the main line exits on the RHS. I'd got it into my head that it was a terminus. What I was thinking of was something like this:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NmcPhVcJ0sk/Tz_TpuzKp5I/AAAAAAAAAD0/B_P8oZ6klvM/w719-h226-k/MikeGriff_009.jpg)
The squares are 100 mm. Let's see if I can upload an image!
Obviously an intercoastal virus passed by NG forums, I'm in a similar state.
That looks pretty decent.
Originally my layout was end to end (still is in reality) but the I'm getting bored fairies got in my head, the b***** thing is growing ahead of me, just as I get to a reasonable state with my existing two boards I start planning the third, then I gets a "what if " idea and I'm making it a roundy roundy job.
Has to work now, I've just drilled a hole for the Jig saw!!!
I will say is that making a turntable is not easy, in fact to make one that works well in 009 is very difficult. They are also quite rare on NG lines in the mainland UK and I do not think any were at the end of the run round in a station other than those on miniature railways. But as it is a freelance railway that is not a problem. But making one that works well will not be easy.
It is a bit late now as your board is already made but I would have planned the track first that made the trackbed out of 6mm plywood and built a framework to hold the trackbed and the scenery rather than having a flat board and building upwards.
Brian Meldon
In my Anyrail doodle, I was assuming a modified Peco N gauge turntable. My working premise was purelys what to do with 1 LH point, 1 RH point, a turntable and make it operationally interesting. Unfortunately I ignored one of Mike's stipulations that it was a through route and I assumed a terminus.
I'm interested to see what you decided on Mike!
Hi Brian, Hi Graeme,
The board was already built, this is a deviation from my original plan. Originally this was a terminus giving me a horse shoe style layout with end to end running on three 4 x 1 boards. The runnjng quality I have thus far Achieved is iffy on the first board, a terminus, I can solve that, my funds are low and it seemed that with what I had (the two points and two lengths) I could take it all the way round, include a lift out section, improve my interest and save cash visa vi, less points.
The idea is to modify an N guage Peco table and run a few things off that would constitute a representation of a working railway. Granted it will be freelance, but it appears that main lines in SG ran over swing bridges (Norfolk Broads) so a turn table is not to far adrift particularly as it would be secondary ie; on the loop.
So, entering the board at the extreme left of the long side at right angles, a curve to the right, this leaves space for a platform at the back of the board as the board is 12" and it is a 9" radius curve. Exit the curve into a RH point, main line continues through the station, through a reversed LH point and off the board. Going back to the RH point,taking the right hand route we continue until we are 31" into the board, this marks the center of our turn table, fanning off the table we have, 3 sidings to the right, to the left, 1 road to a carriage shed, 1 to an engine shed, another to a loco service area, (coaling stage),past the loco srevice area is a goods platform, I have to look at how congested this is, but it has possibilities me thinks.
The loop of course continues over the table to the pont and rejoins the main line.
, Mike
Here is a free hand rough of the proposed board in the form of a pencil drawing,
Hi Mike,
There is an 009 layout designed along similar lines but the name escapes me. It may be a locomotive works and a "box file" type layout. However this version was more like a roundhouse arrangement than full sidings.
I'm not sure the purists will approve and they will say that it is not prototypical, but even for a freelance layout I would be a little concerned that some of the sidings could end up being unusable. It all depends on how much you can fit on your turntable. My guess is that unless it is a big turntable it will be a loco and one or two wagons. Some of the curves leading off the turntable could also work out to be rather more severe than the drawing suggests.
You could still achieve a similar effect by not having the loop pass through the turntable but :angel: instead have the two ends of the loop cross at an angle and continue on to a long siding to the left and to the right (or top and bottom according to the orientation of the pdf file). You could then drive a complete train across the turntable into these two sidings. The other sidings could be shorter as it is going to be very tedious ferrying wagons across the turntable one by one.
On the bright side, you may have invented a new shunting puzzle! It would appear to be the railway equivalent of the "Farmer, goose, fox and corn" logic puzzle, or the updated version:
http://www.skypoint.com/members/camilian/humor/U2Bridge.shtml (http://www.skypoint.com/members/camilian/humor/U2Bridge.shtml)
Hi Graeme,
Thanks very much for that. You've saved me a lot of time and work.
As you say, its patently unworkable, DOH! Good try though.
I'll have a look around and see what I might do about it, hang on, if.........noooo, ah well, thanks a mill.
Mike
Hi Mike,
I'm away on business in Bergen (well drying out in the hotel after getting exceedingly damp at this moment), but I doodled something at the airport that might work. I'll see if I can upload it.
Edit: I've uploaded it to Picasa, now let's see if I can link it:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ePe-4hWntVg/T00CAvXgE9I/AAAAAAAAAFM/3s4gRGabVl0/s640/MikeGriff_2_009.jpg)
The two longest sidings are supposed to line up across the turntable to the "loop" and the corresponding point. A train can be pushed across the turntable into the siding and left there by the loco. If the engine is on the "wrong end" of the train, then the wagons or coaches can be left in the straight bit of the "loop", the engine uncoupled, run round the "loop" (with the turntable rotating appropriately) and coupled up again. The train can draw out and backed into the siding.
If the turntable is big enough to hold an engine and a wagon then other short sidings for an engine shed, coaling stage, ash and what ever other things that only require one or two wagons being moved.
I don't suppose anything like it exists in reality, but given the restrictions of two points and a turntable, there could be an interesting bit of shunting involved.
Hi Graeme,
I did a bit of living out of a suitcase myself in a former life, I hope you get a decent rest and an on time return.
The Layout idea looks very good, I kinda started doodlin but got bogged down, wasn't really focused. Thanks I''ll "offer it up" and trim the edges as the dress maker said to the fat lady.
Cheers.
The "national dress" of Bergen includes wellinton boots & an umbrella!!
Paul
Is it twinned with Ireland?
Hi Mike,
Being one of the latest recruits to the fold so to speak may be too late with my observation.
As been noted aligning a turntable is notoriously difficult, maybe using something called a " Lazy Susan" may be an easier alternative.
The link below explains the principle.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/triangle-lazy-susan-bearing-prod20991/ (http://www.axminster.co.uk/triangle-lazy-susan-bearing-prod20991/)
Regards
John
Hi John, what a great idea. At first I was wondering what it was,I didn,t consider food implements. Thanks, Mike
Squiires sells Lazy Susan type roller bearings. In fact I have one (to put under my pizza layout), but did not think of turntable applications.
The rotation is very smooth and level. In that respect it should be easier to maintain vertical alignment of the track ends than trying to drill a hole that is exactly at right angles to the baseboard surface for a central shaft. Contrariwise, finding the exact centre of the Lazy Susan will need careful marking out to ensure that the turntable hole and deck are concentric.
If you solved the vertical alignment problem with a turntable, you might consider how to line up the bridge against the approach tracks. I have a very old turntable made of a record player which of course is quite a different principle.
However the locking mechanism I use might be replicated using an old CD or DVD fitted below the baseboard on the drive shaft. Cut notches into the edge of the disc that correspond with the approach tracks, then run a spring-loaded roller on the edge. Connect the roller with a switch that cuts the power to the table motor, and you have positive mechanical locking combined with an electrical cut-out.
It might be best to align the approach tracks after you installed the locking mechanism.
Any body for Barbara Dickson?...........Don't Shoot I'm english!
It is not just the alignment that is a problem it is how it is going to be turned.
Using a simple bearing even a good one, is no good as it will just spin round and round so some type of damping action is required. Also how it is going to be turned becomes a problem. Some type of mechanical linkage would be needed under the base board, unless you are going to turn it by hand from above. The rail height would also need to be considered and would almost certainly require the turntable to be sunk into the baseboard. Having it higher would require the entire track to be lifted as well. Having a slope up to the turntable will result in vehicles running away when not coupled to a loco. That is all before thinking about how it is going to be wired up and the moving contacts needed for full 360 degree movement.
As I previously remarked turntables are difficult.
Brian Meldon