Good evening,
On the WHR use has been made of Gabions (retaining walls) - the industry standard size is 1m cubed and I have (hopefully) attach an outline picture.
I was wondering if anyone had ideas about what material I could use for the mesh that goes round the outside of the stones.
Ratio use a fine white nylon-ish mesh in their Security Fencing product but it is not stiff enough to retain its shape around the stones inside. I think if I tried to stiffen it with PVA it would probably lose its transparency.
I have small tea-strainer (used for ballasting) that has a fine metal mesh but I am reluctant to cut it up becuase it took ages to find and it is curved.
I would be grateful for any ideas !
many thanks
Bob Berry
Try this, Bob.
http://www.metalmesh.com.au/brass-wire-mesh
I haven't downloaded the catalogue so I don't know what sizes the woven mesh goes down to - however, when I was conducting tear tests on polysulphides back in the mid-1970s we were using brass gauze so fine it looked like cloth. I seem to remember the off-cuts were useful for loco radiator grilles...
This site might be a start and you should also find some model engineering suppliers will sell gauze for straining water feeds to boilers, which may be suitable.
You might also find some in stainless steel which would be more expensive but would save hours of painting.
Thanks David, this is most useful and has started some thoughts off in the direction of a source of mesh from within the modelling community.
Since posting I have gone through my spares box and found one brass mesh piece that might just suffice. I know I bought it at the GRIM exhibition in Yorkshire last year but can't remember who the trader was, only that it was a stand on the stage of the hall.
I will do some further research !
Bob
Have a look on the Scale Link website, they might have something of use that's etched.
http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Etched_Brass_Frets___Photo_decoupe.html
What sort of material are you going to use for the fill? How about O gauge ballast?
Tom,
Thanks for the link - I would never have thought of looking here and looks good for what I want.
Yes I would use O gauge ballast or I have a lot of small hand-crushed slate pieces which would suit.
Bob
Just a thought - is it something to get etched? I can see that they may have applications elsewhere, i.e. anyone modelling 'modern image' so there may be some commercial interest...
That's an idea - Nickel-silver would probably not need to be painted, too
Plastic mosquito screen gauze?
Rather than fill the thing with rock why not make a box a little smaller than the required size out of plasticard or polystyrene and then glue the rock to the box and glue the mesh to the outside... It'll make it lighter as well!
Quote from: JulienW on February 08, 2012, 09:28
Just a thought - is it something to get etched? I can see that they may have applications elsewhere, i.e. anyone modelling 'modern image' so there may be some commercial interest...
I'd have thought that a neat solution.
Quote from: Hobby on February 08, 2012, 15:16
Rather than fill the thing with rock why not make a box a little smaller than the required size out of plasticard or polystyrene and then glue the rock to the box and glue the mesh to the outside... It'll make it lighter as well!
I'm in the middle of making a easily portable LGB back-and-forth shuttle demonstration and after a few goes at trying aquarium gravel and decorative chips from the local garden centre I decided that apart from not looking like ballast the added weight would be too much. I've settled on cork granules that I've sprayed black and then various grey shades.
As a variation on Blair's suggestion above, how about putting the stones (or whatever you use) inside a suitably shaped box/mould, doing the ballast-gluing trick and when dry, ejecting the stone cubes/cuboids and finally gluing fine mesh on the visible faces.
One thing I've noticed about gabions is how neatly the stones inside seem to fit. Of course the mesh holds them in place but rather more flat surfaces of the stones seem to line up with the mesh that randomness would seem to suggest. I wonder if there is some cunning method of shaking them into place?
I also wonder if it is possible to etch brass fine enough to look convincing? Since only one or two surfaces are likely to be seen, how about winding fine thread, suitably separated and cross-hatched around the block?
Quote from: GraemeD on February 09, 2012, 09:10<snipped>
One thing I've noticed about gabions is how neatly the stones inside seem to fit. Of course the mesh holds them in place but rather more flat surfaces of the stones seem to line up with the mesh that randomness would seem to suggest. I wonder if there is some cunning method of shaking them into place?
I have noticed that myself and I wonder if in some cases - where the gabions form a feature - they are not filled by hand, at least in part (the 'show' faces), to get a neater look. Equally though if they are filled and some sort of vibration applied then I suspect that any flat faces on the stones would tend to line up with the vertical sides of the cage.
All, many thanks for your thoughts on this subject which all very helpful to a sixty year old (very) inexperienced modeller who has lots of time to model but precious little know how yet !!!
I have decided to go with trying out the Scale Link etched brass approach as I think this will be within my skills set.
I'll make the minumum number of mesh sides needed (which will be mesh front and sides, plasticard floor and back). For fill I already have some hand crushed slate and I will face all the "seen" sides in alignment as much of the crushed slated can be "faced". I will try a plasticard "inner" box although weight is not an issue for my layout which isn't designed to leave home.
I didn't have the wit to take any pictures of gabions when I was on the WHR last year so have found an internet picture as attached. This is the sort of effect I would like to achieve and I cannot help but think the stones must have been hand-placed to obtain this regularity.
Bob
Quote from: berryr99 on February 07, 2012, 20:10
I know I bought it at the GRIM exhibition in Yorkshire last year but can't remember who the trader was, only that it was a stand on the stage of the hall.
A1 Models were on the stage.
I know John does some very good etched grille and mesh packs, so i bet that's who you got it from.
Darren.
Thanks Darren - I have found their website and will put in an order.
I should learn to write useful stands etc down at the time I find them !
Bob
Bob - just a thought, you might try the WHR Isengard website http://www.isengard.co.uk/ I'm sure you'll find a few photos of their gabions but I'm afraid it might take a bit of searching through the news reports and history...
Isengard????
This could be hobbit-forming
David,
Thanks, looking right now - I had forgotten about this site
Hugh,
I fear you may be starting a whole new thread - very much like the Discworld one that has been running for some time !
Bob
the turtle moves...
An interesting development on the sources of suitable mesh........
I purloined a "splatter guard" from the kitchen (the domestic authorities don't know yet !) and the mesh that it uses is quite fine and quite foldable.
I roughed out the attached just to see how it would work - its a bit bright but can be dulled down with the airbrush
The Scale Link mesh has just arrived so I'll have a go with that as well.
Bob
Driving home on Sunday up the M5 I noticed gabions that were encased with hexagonal-cell wire (rather like heavy-gauge chicken wire) rather than square-cell. (Note: I wasn't driving at the time!)
Thanks for the info Hugh - I am still trying to find some pictures of the Welsh Highland gabions but from memory they are of square mesh construction.... and this is also the design that I can find on the Internet
Hexagonal would be interesting to do and could probably use a diagonal mesh to do it.
The domestic authorities have identified that, being newly retired, I have some spare time that would be better put to use (in their opinion) in decorating the hall/stairs/landings so modelling is taking a bit of a back seat just now !
Bob
Oh dear - hard luck Bob! Most blokes who retire spend their first six months as unpaid painters & decorators but just think of the brownie points you're getting so you can go off to the WHR to photograph the gabions in situ and then all the time you'll be allowed at the bench to build the models! Plus, if you're devious enough you might manage to include something useful in the decorating for a future layout section... ;D
David
Thanks for the commiserations - I think its time for head down and get it finished then back to the bench !
One benefit is that you get time to think about the layout and what to do next on it
Bob
Yes. A trip to B&Q for decorating stuff is good cover for bringing back baseboard materials etc. ;)
Even better, our local Homebase is next to Hobbycraft - so plenty of opportunity to truant !
Bob
I have now completed the first gabion - photos attached
I used Scale Link brass mesh and the filling is crushed slate pieces.
The mesh is secured at the corners with 28 gauge wire threaded through the mesh ( was going to solder it but the wire is more than adequate to hold the structure)
I didn't make a mesh base as I was concerned about bits of slate dropping through
The paint is Vallejo Natural Steel on an undercoat of Halford's grey primer.
Bob
Lookin' good! Well done!
Quote from: Tigger on February 22, 2012, 12:22
Oh dear - hard luck Bob! Most blokes who retire spend their first six months as unpaid painters & decorators ...................
Oh dear, so young, so much to learn.......... ::)
4 and a bit years into my own intended life of luxury, carefree days and playing with trainsets (I did go a bit early I'm not quite totally geriatric yet) I have still not even been started on the unpaid painting and decorating although I have had most of the previous 42 hours gross, where at least there was free access to the stationery cupboard and the colour laser printer, re-allocated to grocery shopping, acting as unpaid chauffeur, riding shotgun on trips to Marks & Spencers mature ladies outfit section, domestic crisis management, admin, bill paying (lots of that) and in the spare time that I am allowed, I do a little bit of photography (unpaid of course). I did see some new paint brushes being looked at in poundland the other week and have detected a heat gun and paint strippers being smuggled into the cellar so I think it is only a matter of time now. Just hoping my secret application to be a cabin boy on the Shetland ferry comes through soon........... :o :'(
Mick
Mick,
I think the Domestic Authorities have taken advantage of my newly retired status and mugged me with decorating whilst I was getting used to the novelty of not having to work for a living.
I have recently been having guilty thoughts of running away to the Ffestiniog and seeing if I could sign on as an engine driver (or more realistically a cleaner !)
David,
Thank you for the encouragement, at my skill level it is very much needed.
Bob
Just keep on going, Bob. There are very few things you can do to a layout that you cannot later modify if you're unhappy with them or if you think you can do better.
Even the stupidly small road overbridge which restricts my loading gauge could be completely rebuilt if I really wanted to!
The secret is to do SOMETHING and keep going!
They're good, Bob :)
For future ones maybe try doing smaller sections and joining them together to see if that gives any better appearance.
Quote from: Tigger on March 07, 2012, 12:19
Even the stupidly small road overbridge which restricts my loading gauge could be completely rebuilt if I really wanted to!
So it's 'just' an overbridge that's stopping you run all that lovely large loading gauge stock... :D
Quote from: invercloy on March 07, 2012, 16:14
They're good, Bob :)
For future ones maybe try doing smaller sections and joining them together to see if that gives any better appearance.
Yes, I think this is a good idea and also I am going to try the next set with a slightly larger mesh to show off the filling a little better
Bob