For once, a tender engine and a Mikado at that. It is based on a Roco 0-8-0 chassis.
progress so far
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I wouldn't leave that lying around if Julien is present, John!! ;)
Very nice...
Yes but will this one qualify for an ASBO?
Agreed, nice! Look forward to the finished article.
Very nice John - very much like Ted's Craigcorrie & Dunalistair 2-8-0 "Brahma"
Inside frames as well! ;D.................
Mick
Quote from: Hobby on November 21, 2011, 09:41
I wouldn't leave that lying around if Julien is present, John!! ;)
Very nice...
You distract John and I'll make a break for it...
Very nice indeed John.
Only if you get the body as well...
The loco would not be any good for Julien as it passes through the CG loading gauge. Yes but, no but, Julien only likes locos that tear up all of my cow parsley! ;D
In any case, it is my understanding that Vicky Pollard still prefers Julien's loco as it is a lot cleaner than mine will be..
The inside frames are, I admit; a JdF abberation
:)
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close to completion
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Looking very impressive.
Very impressive John - it will be another splendid and inspirational model loco.
Mick
Thank you. A bit more finishing and I will then be able to place the Archer rivet transfers.
best
JdF
It has indeed a likeness to my 2-8-0, or perhaps I should say to the Darjeeling C class 4-6-2 which my own model was loosely based on. Excellent looking loco, well proportioned. Is the drive in the loco or in the tender?
The drive is in the loco.
In my phoney history, I am claiming that it is a Hudswell Clarke!
Very nice John, very nice indeed, with a whiff of the majestic Hudswell 4-8-0s on the Swilly. What's her 'story'?
Charlie Insley
Built 1917 for export and left on makers hands and thus purchased by the Glenthorne Harbour Authority!
Well, John, in the past you've told me that you wanted constructive criticism as you had offered me some, and expected it in return.
I really like the forward portion, it's great, but the tender looks inelegant and rather cumbersome in comparison with your other stock. I think it's the strip around the top, if it were flared it would be better I think. Still, I'll reserve judgment until it's painted.
Spot on mate. It is a lashup. I will be using the tender from my Darjeeling kit once Jeff B sends it back! Well spotted. I am experimenting with a new design of close coupling of the tender so at least I can get on with the job.
best
JdF
The Mikado fitted with the Dauben Mk2 tender. Now for the rivets! Thanks Tom.
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That's better! ;D Are you using the Archer transfers for the rivets?
Archer rivets are now on and they look great. They do take some time to get right though. I am airbrushing the thing after supper. It runs great BTW.
This will be the next one for Cliffhanger, (with rivets)
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JdF
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So this is the painted loco. We now have to wait for the transfers and then weathering can be undertaken.
Not bad, John. I like the dark red livery. Cab detail looks good to me. What did you make the gauge glass of? Any plans for lining-out?
Thanks Ted. All our Glenthorne locomotives bar one have the same dark red livery. This will not be lined but will be heavily weathered. The backhead detail came with the original loco but the gauge glass was done with photoshop and the paper just stuck on!
Quote from: pilotfriend on November 29, 2011, 17:22
This will be the next one for Cliffhanger, (with rivets)
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JdF
[tongue firmly in cheek]Nice pug-bash John. I'm not sure the silver and gold livery will fit in with everything else though... :-\ [/tongue firmly in cheek]
If the Pecket looks even vaguely like a Pug, I shall drive over to Shrewsbury and shoot him!
Its just a Pug with an extended saddle tank, John... Surely it would just be cheaper buying a couple of Airfix kits and bashing them?! ;D ;D
You may be right, Blair, but as you know, I only regard metal locomotives as 'proper'.
Great work John, it only seems like last Saturday afternoon the Mikado was resting outside Countygate engine shed newly delivered. As I looked at the calendar it was the 7th of June 1935. Now five days later (still the 7th of June) the Glenthorne branch have not only painted the loco but commissioned the next. Thanks for a lovely afternoon.
Jeff
(aka Russell (according to your neighbour )) I quite like being mistaken for one of your Locomotives ;)
Hi Jeff
Yes, you certainly managed to become Russell! You are quite right, it is always 7th of June here at CG. It is amazing what can be done in a day! Glad you like our new No7 and it was a pleasure to meet you last Saturday.
PS We have decided to line out no7 before weathering
best
John
Special decals were ordered on Monday from Peter Blackham and arrived yesterday. The sheet included the transfers for No 7 and also GHA shields and other required details. As a matter of interest, I paid commercial rates for the transfers which explains the delivery speed. (
Very nice, John. I was going to say how did you get them so quickly before I read the rest of the post...
Have you ever tried the crafty computer paper transfer method? Is Rob K doing the lining and weathering again?
This time I am going with Chris Meach of Golden Arrow. Only because we wish to compare results and styles.
I tried this Crafty paper and found that I was insufficiently crafty to understand the technique and got nowhere with the whole thing. The instructions need to be written for geriatric morons such as myself! I still cannot programme the video!
I still think it would be a wonderful way of making complete panels for loco lining.
We require 8 Glenthorne trains to operate Cliffhanger as a standalone layout.
1. Garratt
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2. Baldwin
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3. Ben Halliday
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4. No 1
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5. No 6
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6. No 7 ( the new Mikado )
7. Glenthorne Railcar
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8. railcar 302 (now modified to 2 car and redesigned to get to the harbour
plus Peckett spare
JdF
The side view of the Mikado somehow reminds me of a Cape gauge South African 12R (which is of course a 4-8-2). Small wheels, low footplate and a bogie tender. A solid chunk of an engine which originally was also used for coal haulage. Very atmospheric.
Without wishing to seem picky, is it me or is No 7 suffering from the same drawback as the L&B Mallet? Loads of wheels and motion just where there should be a firebox and ashpan? I should love to see the GA of both locos!
The firebox is behind the rear axle?
??? The firebox and ashpan of no 7 are behind the coupled wheels. The trailing truck is under the cab, supporting the firebox end as it should.
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ash disposal is clear
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ash disposal aft of rear drive wheels and is typical of Mallets of this type
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Ted and already explained No7.
In the case of the Kitson Meyer and No7, the ashpan and all detail is fully modelled.
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the ashpan is clearly visible
I never design a freelance locomotive without having its GA ratified by a friend at Blodge.
Apart from the type with a trailing truck under the firebox like mainline American articulateds, Mallets are notorious for having a narrow and shallow firebox. The grate has to be over the rigid coupled wheels. The 2-6-6-2 compound diagram shows such a loco.
In standard gauge or outside frame narrow gauge engines they often put the rearmost coupled wheels under the rear end of the (sloping) grate, with a gap between the rear and centre drivers. In these locos the grate can be made wide enough. The prototype photo of the 0-4-4-0 with the cylinders reversed shows a long coupled wheelbase and outside frames expressly for this purpose.
On a rigid or semi-rigid loco fitted with a trailing truck or bogie, the firebox can be hung behind the drivers without affecting stability.
Garratts, Fairlies and Meyers don't suffer from this problem as the grate always drops down between the articulated units. In particular the Garratt has a short, fat boiler with a huge grate area. This means combustion gases will travel slowly through the firetubes, resulting in an efficient high output boiler.
Understood Gents - thanks! I think I'll stick with my Vertical-boilered Shay if I want plenty of grunt, phenominal acceleration and a low top speed...!
Why lots of driven wheels?
This is twofold.
1. Much more reliable operation and usually, the articulated locos do not require a companion car (to pick up current). This is essential for automated working.
2. My layout, due to the need to compress the world to fit my workshop, has strong grades (1:20). This requires either double heading or big engines to pull the long trains often seen on CG. The stiffest grades are found just before the East Lyn Viaduct on the main line and below the viaduct on the branch line.
The rework on the County Gate trackplan has allowed prototypical train lengths (for holiday specials)
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This is a typical double headed train (8 coaches + van). I have always tried to demonstrate that 'main line' narrow gauge operation existed on some lines. You would be surprised how heavy my rolling stock is. The drawbar power required is huge. Even going down hill, a light loco can be pushed past the home signal for the station by the moving train behind! No 7 has a few less wheels, agreed, but it has traction tyres which make up for it. The tender acts as a companion car.
Interestingly, loco performance parallels the L&B figures for grades of 1:50.
A single MW can haul 4 coaches + van
double heading MWs 8 coaches + van
Mallets
River Avon 6 coaches + van
River Brue 7 coaches + van
I consider these long trains (goods equally) an excellent antidote to the usual 009 image of a bashed Pug with two shorty coaches requiring hand pushing at regular intervals. ;D
JdF
Pugbash with 8 on. About max load for 1 in 35 gradients.
No pushing required, and no companion cars needed either... It's not the DCC bothering you, is it? (run for cover) ;D ;D
http://www.009dutch.nl/cdr/main/foto/operation/08.jpg (http://www.009dutch.nl/cdr/main/foto/operation/08.jpg)
Scale length train. No DCC - sound mixed in. 8)
http://www.009dutch.nl/archive/2009/cdrvideo/loaded%20coal%202.wmv (http://www.009dutch.nl/archive/2009/cdrvideo/loaded%20coal%202.wmv)
"About max load for 1 in 35 gradients."
A Dutch layout with 1:35 grades?
impossible! ;D ;D ;D
Those are diddy little light wagons!
The Netherlands is the only place I would be prepared to go fell walking on my scooter :D
"It's not the DCC bothering you, is it?"
Yes. The digital messages are very low voltage indeed and can easily be missed with poor conductivity. You need not duck for cover Ted! Messages from a controller are constantly being given. Those from a computer are only given once (like 'Hello Hello')
I guess I had that coming!
I really do have in in 35 gradients, most on long straights behind my backscene. I don't think I'll match your 8 or 9 bogie coaches for train length, but maximum train length in the loop at Rae Bridge is about 1 metre. Dunalistair can handle more.
8 wagons for a four-wheel saddletank would seem about a scale load on such gradients. Bigger engines can take more, sometimes I need a banking engine. And the wagons in the photo are small, but most of my stock is rather bigger.
Your gradients are rather steep due to compression. No wonder your trains can push the engine past the signals. However, my hidden curves are very sharp for the same reason. But I use compensated gradients - the curves behind my backscene are flat. Makes life much easier.
To put things into perspective there were narrow gauge railways running a 'main line' like service like the L&B, but these cannot be compared to small scale operations like the Corris or the Talyllyn. There, a saddle tank and two coaches would be the norm. And the tank might need the occasional push, even in reality. ;)
"but these cannot be compared to small scale operations like the Corris or the Talyllyn. "
And that's a fact. I well remember early Talyllyn with David Curwen trying to get Sir Haydn back on the rails yet again after having slipped through on the bad track. It was also a long time before I ever modelled a Meyer after an awful very wet day with a 'Monarch' failure.
An interesting thread, gents and a spectacular photo John! As you know my own railway normally operates the equivalent of three bogie coaches (plus the occasional goods vehicle for a bit of variety) and although I'd like to run four, it's all dictated by the loop length. There is also the question of proportion - four would be a little long proportionally. Operationally, the trains normally take about a minute to cover the fifteen or so feet between the stations, a speed which looks about right. Hmmm... we're veering off the original subject - the 'mik' and the Mallet still look nice.
Aaw, and I was excited about being able to run a 7 coach train on Isle Ornsay - damn you, John! ;D
Don't get too excited! When the mood takes, I can run an 8-coach excursion on the L&TR!!!
PS - Copyright Tim Easter & Railway Modeller, 2011.
The reality is that I have found the longer trains are much more appreciated in exhibition than the normal every day L&B consists. We have retained just one typical short L&B train now hauled by Lyn.
Our River Brue Mallet hauls seven coaches and Avon 9 bogie wagons. This is despite the fact that both locos have two class 08 chassis. The front power bogie has relatively less adhesion due to the Mallet articulation.
To better explain the DCC comments between TedP and myself:-
Our automation has slow down, stop and sensor sections (these may give the command to change points, start another train, switch on and off lights, blow whistle or initiate a video) cut into one rail of the track. Once a loco runs onto a section, a single command is sent by the rails to the train from the computer.
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I shall say this only once
If there happens to be a momentary loss of current connection at that moment, the train will not 'hear' the command and will happily carry on and run head first into oblivion!
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This is why we ensure that this cannot happen by using so many pickup wheels.
An additional problem is that we always have a function chip in the end vehicle to switch on and off the tail lamp. The system has to know that this is not another train or yet again, mayhem would result.
Your double header looks good Tigger. Sorry Tom!
Many thanks John. One of the locos was built by me and the other by a friend who borrowed mine to use as reference to build his and later bequethed it to me.
Your photo of the head-on reminds me of a similar incident on my railway in the late '70s. It happened when a friend's reverse-polarity Joueff Decauville and my steam railcar (built onto a Warship chassis) got onto the same section! My railcar held the rails but his Decauville ended up in the field!
Quote from: pilotfriend on December 07, 2011, 23:19If there happens to be a momentary loss of current connection at that moment, the train will not 'hear' the command and will happily carry on and run head first into oblivion!
I can confirm that, usually at the loop in the front and also when John has gone for his hourly fag break... ;)
" can confirm that, usually at the loop in the front and also when John has gone for his hourly fag break..."
Quite right. The new station layout solves most of the problems.
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old layout
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new layout
The removal of all 12" Peco points from the main line has also helped matters considerably.
We also suffered from occasional abberations of the digital messages. Finally, the bulk of these were found to be mains electricity spikes which were being picked up by the system. I had installed my transformers in the baseboards and this was eventually found to be the flaw. All mains now stays on the floor and the ten or so transformers individually lead low voltage to the baseboards. Every low voltage feed had to have a different design plug so that it is impossible to make a mistake plugging in. When exhibiting in Holland, the railway ran for hours at a time without problem. Finally I discovered that the power supply was quite special at that show.
Among the CG Desperados however, there was an alternative explanation.
This was that the layout was actually controlled by myself using psychokinesis. I would 'go out of range' when disappearing for a fag!
The complexity of automation on County Gate has meant that it has taken some time to be assured of near perfect operation. Nothing quite like it had been done before using this equipment and we had a very steep learning curve. Prior to mothballing, County Gate now runs for an average of 2 hours before something daft happens! This is more likely to be rolling stock issues these days.
Perhaps it's time for DCC control using bluetooth instead of having to rely on wheel-rail contact. Although I suspect you'll have trouble from mobile phones playing havoc with the digital commands.
Nice trackwork by the way.
I can just imagine someone sending a photo of the line and the trains going mad if we used Bluetooth. It would be hell. The problems are really solved now and an article will be going into BRM at some point.
Glad you like the track
JdF
Quote from: pilotfriend on December 08, 2011, 10:34County Gate now runs for an average of 2 hours before something daft happens!
Think I might frame that and stick it in a prominent position at the front of the layout (when John isn't looking!)... ;D
Sounds like a plan Blair but knowing you, you will put superglue on the rails or introduce white cat hairs into the mechanisms! ;D ;D ;D
worse, you might paint one of my locos pink!
Quote from: tedp on December 08, 2011, 14:06
Although I suspect you'll have trouble from mobile phones playing havoc with the digital commands.
There's an app for that ;)
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Does that piece of kit stop Blair painting locos pink? ;D
As there seems to be an interest in mallets I thought you might like this
A very handsome beast
Quote from: pilotfriend on December 08, 2011, 20:09
Does that piece of kit stop Blair painting locos pink? ;D
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Adds a certain "je ne sais quoi" to it, you have to admit... Bit brighter than i intended though... ;D
Splendid livery! Should have been adopted by Stroudley rather than that lousy yellow...
Quote from: Tigger on December 11, 2011, 14:53
Splendid livery! Should have been adopted by Stroudley rather than that lousy yellow...
So, this is "Hobson's improved engine red"?
Now I have seen everything. No7 in a frock! ;D ;D ;D ;D
"So, this is "Hobson's improved engine red"?
I rather think that will stick! ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D
I've got the pot of the colour if you fancy a change, John! Or you could just DCC The Pink One... ;)
I think this and the Px48 will look nice alongside your new beast, John...
I think the blue might be a shade too dark, but we'll see when i have time to think about it... How I dislike close-ups!
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Blue's a funny colour; some shades will sit well on some locos and others just destroy them! Personally I rather liked the BR blue with white lining and black edging as applied to the Vale of Rheidol locos in the '80s. The RHDR's "Hurricane" looks gorgeous in the light Cale blue and I'd tend to go for a paler blue rather than the 'strong' shades. Superb loco!
You shall have to bring it along (also your transvestite diesel) to run on Cliffhanger before it is DCCed.
Nice hefty engine, Blair, and beautifully modelled. I saw it taking shape on the other forum. Pity there is nothing like it in British outline.
I think that the problem is all about 'scale colour' That intense blue may very well be the correct colour but on a model, I would always lighten and remove some of the intensity.
Did you ever read this?
http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/colour.htm (http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/colour.htm)
Haven't yet but I shall do. A read of your post and a very brief scan of the article seems to indicate we're thinking along the same lines with colour. I've always appreciated the effects of 'scale reflectivity' - amount of light reflected per unit area, which is why a high gloss finish looks less convincing that a satin finish (ok, so you're next question will be something to do with my continued use of gloss on my locos! Don't go there! Besides, they were all done many years ago and I have updated my technique!)
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Lined and weathered by Chris Meacham of Golden Arrow.
Two very nice jobs!
Yes John, very nice indeed - I particularly like that pugbash ;) :laugh:
;D ;D ;D ;D
"I particularly like that pugbash"
They must be salivating on NGRM! ;D
The past visit by the 009 local group was held at our workshop yesterday. Our new No7 effortlessly pulled 24 items of stock from Blair Hobson's 'Commie trainset' at 1/3rd throttle and clearly could have hauled more. Is this a record? Turnouts are 18" rad but the end balloons are 13" rad.
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Very impressive, John
"Commie trainset" indeed... At least they are more comfortable to ride in than those '30s southern railway things... ;)
So where's the photos of the double headed diesel then?
Blair, I wish I could show them.......... some control on the camera had moved and all I have is black. So sorry. However, I can show the 'Purple People Eater' on the drag, all alone .. on its own!
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best
JdF
Quote from: pilotfriend on February 26, 2012, 09:54
The last visit by the 009 local group was held at our workshop yesterday. Our new No7 effortlessly pulled 24 items of stock from Blair Hobson's 'Commie trainset' at 1/3rd throttle and clearly could have hauled more. Is this a record? Turnouts are 18" rad but the end balloons are 13" rad.
It would be a good contender John. At Exbury Gardens 2003 (full photo report in Volume 2 of my Photo CD series) a 36 bogie coach train was hauled around Glenbranter without any signs of stress and authenticated by photo and witnesses as "evidence" - I think Glenbranter has around 12" radius curves at each end, but a different "category" for record purposes as this train was double headed by 2 of Ian Turner's scratchbuilt NGG16 Garratt's - with 24 driving wheels between them providing the tractive effort.
I'm sure that I remember that there have been documented hauls of 100+ tipper trains hauled around Tigger's layout recorded in 009 News but again I reckon this is a different record category! :)
Mick
Mick
You're correct Mick - that was behind my VoR and then Russell. They did even better with even more when we visited the Risbro' and District with their easier curves but my record was thoroughly obliterated by Bernard Pearce's monster 2-10-2 (I think) which hauled everything we could hang behind it!