Quote from: pilotfriend on March 07, 2009, 21:43
None of this applies when using 18" rad N gauge Peco points. everything just sails though them.
My two Mallets hate 12" rad points but they do not have to negotiate them on their traffic patterns.
I am working my way towards a final layout plan and am considering which points to use. Is it simply the nature of the loco that causes problems with the 12" rad points or are there other considerations as well? I would happily use 18" radius but shortage of space is a consideration.
12" Peco 'Crazy points' just do not work. Tillig also have problems.
Quote from: pilotfriend on September 26, 2011, 09:46
12" Peco 'Crazy points' just do not work.
This statement is incorrect.
It is true that the 12" radius points have their faults, but to say that they "just do not work" is unfair.
I have used 12" radius Peco points on a number of layouts, if laid with care and attention and with a bit of fettling their operation can be satisfactory.
However, there is no denying that the 18" mainline points are a far superior product and if possible these should be your first choice.
Darren.
Same applies to Tillig btw! All my stock runs very well through them, the only issue seems to be that the check rail is slightly higher than the running rail and so one of those tiny Jap N gauge trams tends to "jump" over them and you have to be careful when railcleaning... But as i don't run that sort of stock and i clean the rail carefully its not a problem...
I think that you will find that Peco have recently updated the 12
"with a bit of fettling their operation can be satisfactory."
Yes, they can be made to work but 'fettling' means modifications to a point unfit for purpose at point of sale. I felt that a newcomer may find 'fettling' challenging as it is only too easy to overdo the process and consequently ruin the point.
best
JdF
I appreciate that quality varies between manufacturers and even within batches produced by the same company. I hope also that quality improves over time (although no doubt some manufacturers cut corners over time to save costs - most obvious with some confectionary).
In the case of model railway track there is the added complication that on some models wheel standards may have improved but track not so (or vice versa). Also the type of model has changed over the years. I don't suppose there were too many "monster" locos in the days when "crazy" track was introduced and the RM carried adverts for the original Minitrains and Joef locos.
However I find hard to believe that Peco from the outset have knowingly been producing 009 points that don't work. I accept that they may not be the best on the market but I would have thought they would have been withdrawn long ago as the damage to the reputation of the company and its other product lines would have outweighed 009 sales.
In my experience, the crazy points needed 'fettling' from the day they were introduced. The new mainline points are A OK though
All too true. Replacing the turnouts on Eitomo, have had a 50% failure rate so far
Quote from: B.Meldon on September 27, 2011, 10:20
I think that you will find that Peco have recently updated the 12 009 points to address many of the previous shortcomings. I think this was done some time last year. (2010)
Is there any difference between the performance of the new 009 12" radius points and the N gauge 12" radius points?
I have never used the latest N gauge points so I can not give you an answer. I think that there have been at least three revisions of the N gauge points in the past 20 years and obviously the newer ones will be better.
As I said the Peco 009 12 inch crazy track points have now been revised and appear to now run as well as the 009 mainline points, but obviously they have a smaller radius.
As a new modeller you will have to make sure that you only purchase the latest type and not use the older pre 2010 versions that will no doubt remain in stock from some suppliers for a while yet.
Brian Meldon
Many thanks, Brian.
I have found from testing Isle Ornsay that stock generally runs better through the two 12" points I've had to use on it than it ever used to on a previous layout of mine, but there are still a couple of exceptions that don't like the 12" rad. ones, but do like the new Mainline points. Everything runs well through the mainline points.
As I've said many times on NGRM, please don't buy Tillig points, you'll only create a headache for yourself due to their flimsy construction.
Lets just say that Tom and I have had different experiences with Tillig points, he has had problems with them whereas I haven't. They are more of a "scale" point than Crazy track and so less robust, however once they are laid I've not had any problems with them...
However its all rather academic now as the reason we tried them, together with offerings from Roco and others is that Peco 009 points just weren't up to scratch.
However now they are, so there's no real point (!) in looking elsewhere if you have a Peco stockist nearby, so the discussion on whether Tillig points are good or bad isn't really worth any further discussion...
Quote from: Hobby on September 29, 2011, 09:16
{snip}the discussion on whether Tillig points are good or bad isn't really worth any further discussion...
I agree, Blair, it's Peco Mainline all the way for me from now on.
"Peco Mainline all the way for me from now on."
WAY TO GO!
Yeah! It's where all the hoopy froods who know where their towels are at! :D
Edit:
It is ironic that the latest (and apparently best) in the line of 009/HOe points is of a larger radius than predecessors at the same time that technology improvements have also meant that ever smaller locomotives are possible. It is a pity that equivalent quality small radius RTR points to suit cramped industrial lines are not available. Steel sleepered main line track is available from Peco. I doubt that anything that would pass for "Jubilee" track will ever be produced commercially.
I may be wrong but I have a feeling that the common crossing (frog) on the new Peco mainline points has been incoporated into the older "crazytrack' points. Certainly the geomerty is the same (14 degree angle?) and given the rate at which the dies are used they are probaly re-tooled at (irregular) intervals looking at my older points so if it has not happened then it is possible it might.
My memory from when the mainline points were first released, from comments made particularly by the US HOn30 modellers, was that although the radius of the diverging track is larger, the crossing angle remained the same as on the 12" radius points. So I don't think the new crossing has been incorporated into the old points, rather the new points have the same as the older...
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