I'm having to decide which coupling system to use and am currently considering the use of Greenwich couplings. Having read various posts on the subject, it appears that views are mixed as to their advantages and disadvantages. I would be particularly interested to hear from anyone who has successfully used an uncoupling system with Greenwich couplings or from anyone who has tried and run into difficulty.
See this topic http://www.009society.com/forum/index.php?topic=466.0
I have tried most couplings (with the exception of B&B) and I settled on the use of Greenwich couplings.
I retro fitted all my stock that gets shunted and I fit them to all new builds. I use an electromagnetic uncoupling system and the couplings work well with this.
The pro's for Greenwich couplings are-
Ready blackened
Large enough to work reliably but small enough to be discreet
Cheap (
Many thanks Darren. I'm currently building some Parkside Dundas Tralee & Dingle Cattle Vans; I shall try them on those.
I would strongly suggest that you also use a Greenwich coupling height gauge, the last time I looked they cost just a pound.
This will enable you to fit your couplings at a consistant height, which will greatly improve the reliable operation of the couplings.
Darren.
See -
http://www.ngrm-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2893&p=43123&hilit=+Greenwich+Couplings+#p43123
Christopher Payne
Thanks Darren for the heads up on the coupling height gauge and also to Christopher for the referral to the ngrm forum. Its clear that views on this subject vary according to personal taste but I think I've heard enough to give Greenwich couplings a try and see how it works out in practice. When the time comes, I'll also be attempting an electromagnetic uncoupling sytem but that's a subject for another day.
Some thoughts on Greenwich couplings:
I have heard of some people having problems when the heights are set very accurately as the loopes are etched. This may sound odd but if you look at the cross section of an etch the cut is not vertical and, particularly if etched from both sides can be curved from top and bottom out towards a point or 'cusp'. This kind of unevenness, or if the builder has filed the cusp away to give a flat face (which will make the problem worse), can make it very diffcult for the loop of one coupling to push over or under the loop of the other coupling to get to the hook. This can apply to other types of coupling, but not where the coupling's loop is made of wire (like the DG system). Having operated a layout with Greenwich couplings I did not expeience that problem, but the layout used fixed perminant magnets and I had problems with things uncoupling when I did not want them too (which is as much an issue of where they were put as that they can not be 'turned off' but also operator unfamiliarity) and unlike some of the 'kit built' couplings they do not have a delay function (i.e. uncoupled stock can be propelled into a siding and left) built in though this facility could be added by a fairly simple modification.
I may be biased as I use DG couplings myself after dabelling with Greenwich, BUT of the 'kit built' types they are probably one of the easier ones to build and are sturdier than some too. Personally I would use them with electromagnets to avoid unwanted uncoupling and fit some sort of delayed action system to them (something to prevent a 'magnetically raised' loop dropping over the hook - like a wire sticking out horizontally from the end of the loco/ wagon / etc.). The electromegnets will be more expensive then perminant magnets and also need extra wiering, but with a delayed action system the number of magnets needed is reduced (one per fan of sidings as opposed to one per siding) and once uncoupled stock can be pushed to wherever rather than trying to work out in advance where you'll need to uncouple (which could be multiple places on one long siding).
But whatever coupling system you use I would recomend having some sort of jig to set them up on so that they are at the correct height above the top of the rail and centerally mounted between the rails on evey bit of stock. These can be quite complex affairs but my jig is a length of track mounted on a bit of 2" by 1" with a countersunk head screw fitted at one end between the rails. The screw is not fully tightened so that the flat top of the screw's head is where the flat upper surface of the coupling needs to be - very useful for marking out cut-outs in buffer beams!
Fixed magnets can also cause problems with locos and wagons getting stuck on the magnet.
One layout that I have operated had a few 4-6-0 locos that if stopped with the bogie pivot over the magnet would then not be able to move away as the magnet pulled down on the steel bogie screw and axels causing the driving wheels to slip on the spot!
I have also seen this same thing happen with wagons, especially light weight ones getting stuck on the magnets.
With the Greenwich coupling it is difficult to get electromagnets to work correctly, basically they are just not strong enough. One solution I have seen is to have uncoupling magnets that can be raised into position under the track, either using a simple mechanical lever system or a solenoid. This system would appear to give the best results, good uncoupling, no unwanted uncoupling and no weird magnetic effects on the locos or rolling stock. But it does take more work to set it up.
As others have said attention to detail when it comes to the height and positioning of any coupling is essential. Experimentation is also required as to the required movement on couplings on a given layout with vehicles that have large overhangs.
The actual stock you intend to use may also have an influence on what coupling you use. For example, if like me, you intend to use the Roco four wheel wagons either as they are or as bogies it is virtually imposable to change the couplings or the coupling height on these so having magnetic uncoupling will not work with these.
What I would recommend it to go to a specialist NG or 009 model railway exhibitions and have a look for layouts that employ regular shunting, see what couplings they are using and how effective they are.
Personally I use the so called Bemo couplings (actually first used by Egger-bahn.) and uncoupling ramps. I find that providing all the couplings are at the correct height and level they work very well. We get near 100% reliability.
Brian Meldon
Quote from: B.Meldon on August 22, 2011, 11:45
With the Greenwich coupling it is difficult to get electromagnets to work correctly, basically they are just not strong enough.
I have not encounted any problems using electro-magnets with Greenwich couplers. My electro-magnet of choice is currently the one supllied by Guagemaster.
Darren.
Actually Darren, could you say a bit more about your use of electromagnets. You've said you use the Gaugemaster version but where do you locate them on the track and how far beneath the baseboard are they?
The electromagnets are located between the rails with the steel rod cut off to just below top of sleeper level and when covered with a very thin layer of ballast are invisible.
I just drilled a hole through the baseboard for the rod (5 or 6 mm diameter I think) and the shortened steel rod is simply pushed through. The Gaugemaster electromagnets are mounted at 90 degrees onto a PCB that has a pre-drilled hole for mounting onto the underside of the baseboard with a suitable screw. You can use the 'push to make' switch included, or any switch that is biased to off.
An alternative to cutting the rod short would be to pack the magnet away from the baseboard with a few suitable sized pieces of thin plywood.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gaugemaster.com%2F_upload%2Fimgs%2Flrg%2F34489%2FEM1.jpg&hash=b2d19ed33f826c1005f4c5772b4cf7f40e28b3f3)
This image is linked from the Gaugemaster website at http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=EM1&r=1
Hope this helps.
Darren.
Hi Darren
It is good to know that this can be done, as I said I know of some who have had difficulties with electromagnets.
The Gaugemaster web site does not show a side view or give much in the way of details so:
What voltage do you use? (AC or DC?)
How long is the
Many thanks Darren, that's very helpful. I shall refer back to it when I get to that stage in building the layout.
Yup, I've gone over to using Greenwich couplings; once you get the knack of folding them up, they are a doddle. I agree that a bit of opening up of the holes makes the loop move easier (I use a 0.7mm drill)
I am also putting the iron wire on the loops, even though I do not yet have any magnets installed on Angst.
Another thing - put the loop on one end only of each item of rolling stock or loco.
Quote from: B.Meldon on August 23, 2011, 09:31
Hi Darren
It is good to know that this can be done, as I said I know of some who have had difficulties with electromagnets.
The Gaugemaster web site does not show a side view or give much in the way of details so:
Quote from: B.Meldon on August 23, 2011, 09:31
What voltage do you use? (AC or DC?)
It
Thank you Darren for taking the time to answer my questions, it is indeed a great help.
I can see from your photo of the electromagnet exactly what you are on about now. Having briefly spoken to someone else I realise that these are the
Hello,
I am new to 009 and just started looking at rolling stock. Having being used to KD couplings on my HO stock I thought I would go for Greenwich couplings so I could have some hands off uncoupling. Micro trains and Dapol couplings just seem a bit pricey.
For my HO stock I use non magnetic wheelsets so not to get steel axles attracting on the magnets, I notice the Greenwich magnets are quite small, is this likely to be a problem?
I have put some Graham Farish/Bachmann metal wheelsets in my peco wagons.
Thanks
Richard
The Greenwich button magnets can be a problem with very small lightweight wagons fitted with steel wheels and/or axles, eg the old Minitrains rtr mines trucks. They often tip up when moving over the magnet. Most of the larger wagons like W&L opens on my layout are fine if fitted with metal wheels and/or axles.
Roger
Thanks Roger, I will try and weight the wagons if possible, which hopefully will help a bit.
If I were to fit magnetic uncoupling on a layout I built, I would arrange a lever system to raise the magnet into position under the track (in a hole or slot covered with paper + ballast) rather than have a fixed magnet permanently in place.
As it is, I dont exhibit, so part of my shunting enjoyment involves using a scale 30ft pole held between a monster pair of digits.
I have just fitted the remote uncoupling onto Pont Gelert.
I didn't want to fit electro-magnets this time so I opted for different methods, fixed permanent magnets (Greenwich) and tufts.
As Roger has already said the small yet powerful Greenwich magnets can be a problem with small wagons and/or metal axles so I decided to approach the problem from a different angle, quite literally.
Rather than fix the magnets horizontally (flat) I've fitted them vertically instead (upright). By doing this the attractive forces from above are much reduced as the magnetic field is mostly directed sideways rather than upwards. The force is sufficient to attract the soft iron wire wound onto the tail of the Greenwich couplings but not enough to attract steel axles or wagon weights. There's probably a much more scientific explanation for this effect, but if there is I don't know it. An added bonus is that they don't need to be buried anywhere near as deep.
So far test running has shown this system to work reliably, but time and more testing will be needed.
The other method (tufts) is that used by Roger Nicholls on his many exhibition layouts. This is simply a tuft of woodland scenics tall grass fibres glued into a hole located along the track centreline. the fibres are then cut to length when the glue has dried.
When a vehicle is propelled over a tuft the dropper used for magnetic operation catch's on the tuft and lifts the loop. When a vehicle is drawn over the tuft the dropper simply passes through the tuft and is unaffected.
Unfortunately, experiments have shown that this method does not work where the locomotive draws a vehicle over the tuft, this is why I have also had to fit 2 magnets, one on the platform road where the loco uncouples from the coaches and one in the loop where the goods engines uncouple from it's train to run round before it starts to shunt.
We will see how well these 2 work.
Regards,
Darren.
Maybe it's just me being clumsy but I found it very difficult to wind the iron wire round to tail of the Greenwich coupling for magnetic operation. At least difficult to do it neatly! In the end, I soldered the cut-off length of the Peco track pin used as a pivot down the side of the tail. Worked perfectly and a lot quicker whilst not being really noticeable. I use the past tense as I don't use these couplings anymore, not because there is anything wrong with them, just don't need automatic operation anymore.
Rod
I have never had a problem with the soft iron wire. I wind the wire round the tip of fine pointed tweezers 6 or 7 times before fitting onto the coupling's tail. Secured with some superglue and then cut off the remaining wire.
Roger
Quote from: Krizzy on February 10, 2014, 11:41
I have never had a problem with the soft iron wire. I wind the wire round the tip of fine pointed tweezers 6 or 7 times before fitting onto the coupling's tail. Secured with some superglue and then cut off the remaining wire.
Roger
I agree with Roger, I fit the soft iron wire slightly differently but still never had a problem.
If anyone has problems winding the soft iron wire on to the coupling loops tail, try winding it on before folding up.
Simply mark where the tail will be folded using the guide marks etched into the fret, then remove loop from fret and wind wire onto tail making sure it is clear of your folding mark. Secure with a drop of superglue. When dry fold up the loop and bend the tail at your mark.
Regards,
Darren.