Help form an old sea dog required.
How are boats and ships tied up at dock sides (I've been told it's not a simple case of a couple of ropes)
Also, I've got several to be tied up on Angst; it's a river (sort of); would the vessels all be pointing the same way? and if so would it be upstream or downsteam?
Thanks very much.
I remembered it involved something about bits of ropes at an angle to stop the boat moving backwards and forwards along the quay, but Wikipedia is your friend!
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc2%2FAmarrage.svg%2F400px-Amarrage.svg.png&hash=608a064d969b97f809e0ef42e8314f7f2c847ce5)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooring_(watercraft) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooring_(watercraft))
I'm not sure about the other bits...
Many thanks. I've now got to source or make some bollards!
(cue for a Goons joke)
see
http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/collier.htm (http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/collier.htm) scroll down for more accurate information
Langley do some nice bollards... ooh er missus! ;D
John W
Quote from: GraemeD on June 17, 2011, 18:52
I remembered it involved something about bits of ropes at an angle to stop the boat moving backwards and forwards along the quay, but Wikipedia is your friend!
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc2%2FAmarrage.svg%2F400px-Amarrage.svg.png&hash=608a064d969b97f809e0ef42e8314f7f2c847ce5)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooring_(watercraft) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooring_(watercraft))
I'm not sure about the other bits...
With my seafaring background, I think I may be qualified add some information about using mooring ropes.
In practice, breast ropes (2 and 5 in the diagram) are little used. They are too short to be any use in tidal conditions where the ship moves up and down with the tide, or during discharging when the ship rises out of the water. Their main application is in strong offshore winds, or possibly when they are used in conjunction with self-tensioning winches. If the angle of a head or stern line (1 and 6 in the diagram) to the shore is wide enough (25-30 degrees) the tension in the line will exert enough force to hold the ship against the quay. In big ships the number of head and stern lines may be 4 or 5, and two bow or stern springs (3 and 4 in the diagram).
Finally, there is absolutely no rule about ships being tied up bows into the current or stern into the current. Usually the current direction in a river changes four times a day, with the tide running in or out! ;D
A futher query!
I've made up some mooring ropes for Angst, but how were these fixed to the ships? Were there be large cleats on deck? or drums? Many thanks in advance
It depends on the size of the ship. If I'm correct you would need bollards for a sailing coaster or a small steamer. These would look like one of these (disregard the highly polished look of the first specimen - most of them were cast iron or steel):
http://www.seaborne-fartygsmagasinet.com/bilder/bollard1_komprwebb.JPG (http://www.seaborne-fartygsmagasinet.com/bilder/bollard1_komprwebb.JPG)
http://www.colourbox.com/preview/1583773-38041-sea-sailing-vessel-rope-moored-to-nautical-bollard.jpg (http://www.colourbox.com/preview/1583773-38041-sea-sailing-vessel-rope-moored-to-nautical-bollard.jpg)
There are some good examples in the earlier post by Pilotfriend. See his web page here:
http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/collier.htm (http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/collier.htm)
The image I refer to is here:
http://www.009.cd2.com/images43/34.gif (http://www.009.cd2.com/images43/34.gif)
Quote from: tedp on July 20, 2011, 21:54
Finally, there is absolutely no rule about ships being tied up bows into the current or stern into the current. Usually the current direction in a river changes four times a day, with the tide running in or out! ;D
Whenever we took a narrowboat out onto a river we'd always moor bows upstream basically because it was easier to control direction against the current and it saved digging all sorts of detritous out of the prop when we opened up the weed hatch on the following morning! It was also easier to control when casting off. However, these rivers were not tidal. It wouldn't matter on Angst - I didn't think there was any current - unless it all happened under the crust! ;D (We were also quite professional about things and even coiled the ropes properly. Sorry - I digress!)
Good-oh!
That gives me a good idea what to work to.
There are certain abiguities with the books - one of them being that there is a docks area, but also that the river can be walked over. Presumably the constant moving of shipping in and out of dock keeps that part of the river surface broken up (?rather like ice?)
(I'm still looking for a set of four runners between whom I can rig a small rowing skiff to have the UU "browns" out practicing on the river!)
Thanks Hugh. That's now a rather scary image in my brain. Ships ploughing through a nasty crunchy crust and UU Browns breaking their oars on the more solid bits! It'll take ages to get to sleep with that image in my mind... ;D
In my mind the browns are running over the surface, carrying the boat between them....
Until they fall through the thinner bits and ...
UURRRGH!!!
Old sea dog just joined 009
ropes 2 & 5 not needed
ropes 1 & 6 should be slightly loose
fwd rope 3 should be attached to quay @ 5
aft rope 5 should be attached to quay @ 3
these lines cross and would be as tight as possible this is to hold the boat away from the quay if the wind is offshore
there is a well known layout in S scale (South Lyn) that show a correctly moored barge
Welcome, DJ.
I got round to mooring Bounty with four "ropes", but unfortunately I don't have a photo (yet). It hadn't been done by the time I went to Shepton, which is why the ship is adrift in RM. On my "to-do" list is mooring the other two boats.
It is true that you tighten the spring lines as much as you can, but that is to prevent fore and aft movement, not to keep the ship alongside the quay. On short vessels you can cross the springs. It's the angle and the length that's important - they need to be set as horizontal as possible. If they are long enough there is no need to adjust them in tidal conditions.
May I attempt a slight hijacking of this thread although my query is slightly related. Look around any small harbour these days and you see a large number of old tyres and modern moulded items (probably has a proper name but I'm not sure what that would be!) hanging from the quayside. So what would have been used in previous times say 20's or 30's, I was wondering if they would have been made from rope or similar?
Your thoughts would be most welcome.
John Bruce.
They used wooden fenders (a square piece of wood suspended from a spliced rope) or rope fenders (a knitted yarn 'stocking' filled with discarded rope ends). You can still see the latter as a bows protection on tugboats. I'm not sure when tyre fenders came into use but I expect around WW2.
Thanks very much for that Ted, I assume the wooden fenders would be of a round section when viewed from above.
John Bruce.
I'm not sure round section wooden fenders would be wrong either. I just had an image of square ones at the back of my mind. Probably offcuts of heavy section timber. Note they would splinter a bit if a steel ship would rub really strongly against them. The edges would wear off quite fast.
Right... I've now put mooring rings on Angst-Lesspork to tie up the smaller vessels.
So the next question is.. How are the moorings ropes tied on? I realise, of course that I'll have to tie them up each time I erect the layout - and untie them again.
BTW I know there's some old tale about the only true "rope" onboard a vessel is the bell rope, so I guess they are mooring lines?
Mooring ropes or lines are threaded through the rings and doubled back on board. The advantage is you can release a rope from the vessel without climbing ashore or reaching for the ring from the deck.
By the way, I'm not aware of the word 'rope' being banned in seafaring language. It is used in sternrope, headrope, breastrope, etc, but funnily a spring line isn't a rope.
In model form if the rings on the quay are attached to, say, a split pin, you can lift it and thread a piece of yarn through the ring. Use an eye (a loop) to the end and flip it over a bollard or a cleat on deck.
Thanks, Ted!
That's given me some good ideas.
I think I've got it sorted. I shall post a photo or two sometime to show what I've done.
Here we are:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hnorwood.co.uk%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fmooring1.jpg&hash=896df48072dc141441be984d617fb81450810a7b)
and
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hnorwood.co.uk%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fmooring2.jpg&hash=55e88135804c3b4f6f9e80fa2c9f005f9d15cd66)
(the one at the sharp end looks a bit slack, but I was hoping it might eventually take up a real sag.)