These are beautiful models and I bought four buildings in mid November for my first entry to making a 009 layout.
Unfortunately I have met a problem with them. As most would do, in preparation to spraying them with a primer, I washed them using a toothbrush and diluted washing up liquid, then rinsed for a few seconds under warm running water. They were then left overnight in the draining rack to dry.
This is what I found the next morning:-
IMG_0220.pdf
Leaving them for three hours the bottom left one now looked like:-
IMG_0221.pdf
IMG_0222.pdf
Having had extensive emails with MS Models I have been unable to resolve the issue to my satisfaction.
The distortion/cracking is my fault it appears. I got them wet (or they may have got too warm)
Buyer beware.
Phil
I've not seen anything like that happening. I've washed 3D resin prints in warm water and scrubbed them with an old tooth brush and cream bathroom cleaner and not had any issues.
Hotter temperatures (e.g. hand hot) have caused resin prints to soften and I've used that in an attempt to straighten out already warped prints.
I wonder if it might be anything to do with newer water washable resins (i.e. rinsing after printing instead of using IPA), but then water is used in rinsing off the prints so that makes no sense!
I could imagine how leaving partially uncured resin soaking in water would cause it to swell and then warp as it dries.
He says these have been fully washed in IPA
Another thought was that the 'honeycomb'or 'corrugated' nature of the double skinned walls combined with the surface tension of the water might leave water in the voids ('ears after swimming pool syndrome') that takes a while to drain away or evaporate and might cause the resin to swell and then shrink.
Possibly you could ask them to put a notice with their products not wash them in water but use alcohol instead to remove things like finger grease from handling. It might mean ruining another model to confirm that the culprit is water and not heat, but then if they are all unsalvageable then perhaps soaking one in cold water for some time and leaving it to try at room temperature, taking before and after photos might confirm this.
If you can show it is the water then they might at least give you some discount on the next purchase, if not a refund if you were not warned not to wash in water. They might also put a notice up about temperature sensitivity if that was the cause.
I see they mention sunlight but apparently not other things to watch out for:
Given that cleaning 'plastic' models before painting (e.g. removing mould release agent) is second nature to many modellers and that they are quite likely to be coming from a plastic kit background and not a 3D printing one, I think it is not unreasonable for them to include warning about preparation cleaning.
It is good to hear they offered you something. I really don't know whether is was fair or stingy of them. I guess it depends in part on whether what you did to the prints would affect other ones printed in a more traditional way to a similar extent (that is ones without the double skin construction) and you treated them in the same way as many would prepare 3D print models.
Cleaning or washing of 3D prints by customers is not unheard of. Some from Shapeways I've bought had a waxy residue remaining inside them despite being cleaned as part of the production. (One or more of their materials and machines use a scaffold of wax rather than the little pillars that have to be snapped off.) Similarly, I've had resin prints from small manufacturers (who presumably use hobby-type printers) where uncured resin has not been washed off completely leaving a sticky residue or drips that have cured subsequently.
Thanks Graeme,
I heard from a friend who has bought their models in the past and washed them exactly as I did without any ill effects.
I have been in contact with PayPal since that was the method of payment. A case has been raised so I am hopeful of getting the money back.
Phil
Phil, sorry to hear about the problem you had and hope you get your money back and thanks for the letting people know about this. Like like Graeme I usually take CIF and a toothbrush to mine then a couple of rinses so this is something new and I'm afraid I can't add any more to the causes that Graeme highlighted but thanks again for the warning and hope everything works out.
I have just heard from PayPal that the case has been decided in my favour and a full refund is on the way.
Phil
I notice that on the information page on the MS Models website there is this warning "Models do NOT need washing prior to being painted. Both heat and water damage 3D printed resin. Any damage caused by this is non-refundable. It's best to seal your model with matte varnish after painting, to protect against water absorption from high humidity environments." How long it has been there I don't know?
Mine are now painted and I will probably spray varnish them as suggested.
They have also just released a further 30 009 buildings.
Barry
Perhaps they are using an odd resin, but it sounds a bit fishy to me, especially as their wording implies all 3D print resin. I thought it was standard practice to wash resin prints after printing and that a newer development was the availability of water washable resins so that people did not need to slosh a lot of isopropyl alcohol about at home.
https://forum.formlabs.com/t/how-long-can-prints-be-left-in-water/7902 (https://forum.formlabs.com/t/how-long-can-prints-be-left-in-water/7902)
I have read though that leaving prints in IPA overnight on the other hand is not a good idea.
Quote from: Barry Witteridge on February 06, 2024, 09:33I notice that on the information page on the MS Models website there is this warning "Models do NOT need washing prior to being painted. Both heat and water damage 3D printed resin. Any damage caused by this is non-refundable. It's best to seal your model with matte varnish after painting, to protect against water absorption from high humidity environments." How long it has been there I don't know?
Mine are now painted and I will probably spray varnish them as suggested.
They have also just released a further 30 009 buildings.
Barry
That was not on his website at the time I bought the models. At that time there was a much less detailed set of warnings, principally that the models did NOT need washing, though not saying they should not be exposed to water. It also mentioned not to leave them in direct sunlight.
Needless to say I will not be buying from him again.
Phil
Quote from: GraemeD on February 06, 2024, 11:04Perhaps they are using an odd resin, but it sounds a bit fishy to me, especially as their wording implies all 3D print resin. I thought it was standard practice to wash resin prints after printing and that a newer development was the availability of water washable resins so that people did not need to slosh a lot of isopropyl alcohol about at home.
https://forum.formlabs.com/t/how-long-can-prints-be-left-in-water/7902 (https://forum.formlabs.com/t/how-long-can-prints-be-left-in-water/7902)
I have read though that leaving prints in IPA overnight on the other hand is not a good idea.
I suspect he is covering himself so he does not have to refund an unhappy customer if the same happens to them. All of the other 3D printing people I spoke to reckoned you should be able to rinse models in water before painting. Any handling will put greasy fingerprints on them which is why most people wash any models before painting as far as I am aware.
Phil
I use water washable resin for all my prints, wash them straight out off the printer with a "sonic cleaner" just water at around 17°C then "pat dry' with paper towel and leave to dry at least overnight before curing.
I have had some slight warping but not to the stage you show!!
There is an "artisan" supplier over here (France) who uses water washable resin and advises against "deep" washing in warm water because of potential problems with distortion.
Personally rarely wash models prior to painting, but do try to keep my hands clean as possible whilst handling them.
Keith