After a previous post about struggling with water, I thought I'd post some photos of the completed scene.
I realise this is not an accurate representation of the real scene but I've enjoyed exploring childhood memories from nearly forty years ago in creating something of what I remembered ...and imagined, if trains ever went over this route again!
For the river, I moulded it from Polyfilla and included some large boulders which I painted with various acrylics (see Photo) but I just wasn't quite sold on the look with the gravels I was using so all was ripped out and I started again.
The river bed was painted with Woodland Scenic Hunter green paint (two coats) to seal it.
For the river bed I poured on various gravels from a local river until I was happy with the look. As the scene is in a meander I wanted to give the impression of deeper water on outside and more deposition occurring on inside of bend...even though due to lack of space I couldn't model the complete cross section of the river. This looked ok but I felt it was too rough so to soften appearance I poured over small amounts of fine Woodland scenic gravel and as with the real stuff I had used, glued it in place with diluted PVA.
Next question, how to give impression of varying depths? Tint the water, use various paints for river bed or do it for real with a deeper channel on outside of bend? Being a rookie, I went for a belt and braces approach and did a bit of all three!
I moulded the channel with a slight slope down to river wall. This was just a rough guide as I knew I could manipulate gravel easily to change shape of the river bed if required.
Fearful of destroying my work to date at this point I made up little test scenes in old food packaging containers. This enabled me to make mistakes in my mix of paints for the stones/gravel on river bed and in water tints without destroying my work to date. My first attempt looked like I'd emptied a tin of pea soup onto the test scene! I learnt to test appearance of any tints by diluting it in real water first.
I diluted the Woodland scenic paint down and took it very slowly at each stage as I saw how the gravels and stones took the paint. I began to see where darker greens would be required in parts and applied this, sometimes soaking up any excess with kitchen roll if I thought it was too much. In parts I also used drops of acrylic black ink. To give an idea of mosses growing between rocks, I scattered tiny amounts of Green Scene collection grass, it says 'grass' on packaging but it is so fine I found it ideal for this and doesn't have the 'shine' you get with static grass...or at least the ones I use!
Finally after much preparation, the pouring of water began two weeks ago. It was very therapeutic to see it flow into all the crevasses and I was very careful to only do about 2mm at a time and leave 48 hours between pours. There is the odd air bubble I managed to miss but overall I'm happy enough with the look. I used a tiny green tint for the first 3 layers and as the level rise, kept it clear for the last few.
For the greenery along the river, path and tracked I used Green Suff World products (various shrubs and grass tufts), Green Scene collection grasses and Woodland Scenics Field grasses mixed and cut to size for reeds. Some may need cut down a bit but I didn't want to go too short until I had poured water.
For the bushes on the river bank, I used sea foam, soaked in glycerine for flexibility and eventually covered in various scatters.
To complete the scene, I built a little halt in the corner with trees in autumnal colours in behind. I know there never was a halt like this on the WHR but in 1984 as an 11 year old, emerging from the darkness of one of the tunnels to be greeted by this beautiful river, I thought if trains ever ran here I would want to get out and have an afternoon playing in the river. I suppose, forty years on, that wish has come true in my world of 009 anyway!
Excellent piece of work, really like it.
Stan.
I like it, Very nice work.
Robin.
That looks great.
Well done.
Looking really good Peter. Lovely layout.
Definitely worth all the care and effort! Excellent work.
Ian
Many thanks for your kind comments and feedback to my queries in the forum over the past year which helped me get to this stage!
I now move on to complete the final corner of the layout which may feature a small bridge. Can anyone advise where it is possible to buy a Tan-y-Bwlch type bridge like on the cover of the current 009 News? Still deciding on how I may fill this corner....
I think it uses the Wills Victorian cast iron bridge (SS26)
If you wanted something a bit plainer but probably cheaper I've used 12mm deep Plastruct girders to make bridges.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51320142075_6fd37b900b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mbZ9gM)
Edit: Updated so the photo shows rather than a link and to corect to Plastruct (not 'plastictruct').
The main girders are the 12mm Plastruct with some small (1 or 2 mm) angle or T section added to the sides as 'stiffeners' - there is also angles between the girders just like the real thing would have. Uprights are square section (6mm I think) styrene from Evergreen braced with more small angle with a short length of square brass tube at the top and an I beam (4mm from memory) to support the main beams of the bridge. Track is hand built (Peco code 80 rail stripped from 2nd hand flexitrack on copperclad sleepers from 3mm SMR).
Something that may be more 'interesting' than a plain girder is the lattice girder (or 'Open Web Truss'). Have a look at http://www.plastruct.co.uk/ for some ideas...
Thanks Julien
I will check this out. Something simpler may be more appropriate.
I'm beginning to sketch out ideas for this final corner, the only certainty is some kind of bridge!
Hi Peter - an excellent layout you are producing, very well done and thank you for sharing images of it. I am now very curious about the other side of the layout that there is a glimpse of in your photo of the river gorge corner where you want to build a bridge, any chance of a photo or two of that side please?
The 009 News cover photo you referred to has the sides of the Ratio Victorian cast iron bridge with modifications to make it look more like the road bridge to the south of the real Tan y Bwlch on the Ffestiniog, I took it at the Statfold 50th anniversary weeekend and it is on Stan Williams and the late Roger Christian's Tan yr Allt, now in the very capable guardianship of Alan Mountfield. Thanks to Stan for providing the accurate information about the bridge which I have inserted here as a correction from the original assumption that it was made from a Wills kit.
Back to your comment regarding "having something simpler". Are you aware of Ted Polet's Nixnie layout? This has a simple scratchbuilt bridge on it at just about the same position on the layout as the river gorge on your own that needs a bridge. Here's a couple of photos that I took at Expong 2016 of it which hopefully gives you a reasonable impression of what a simple wooden bridge may look like, and I don't believe it was very complicated for Ted to build it.
On the Dutch Group website, under "projects", Ted has a very comprehensive section covering very detailed illustrated photo reports of many of his projects, which includes a several part feature on his mini-layout Nixnie, which includes detailed photos of the construction of the bridge. Well worth visiting the splendid website and going through this which I am sure will provide you with good ideas for your own bridge project as well.
Just to give you a flavour here's my pair of photos. A bit of self-indulgement with the 2nd one showing my "famous" roving reporter railcar crossing the bridge tacked onto the rear of one of Ted's own vintage railcar sets!
I hope this helps!
Mick
(https://i.imgur.com/FV6ELFe.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vpW5GrA.jpg)
The bridge on Tan Yr Allt is in fact the Ratio bridge, but the lower part was cut out to make it look like the bridge at T-Y-B on the
FR railway.
Stan.
Thanks for the correction Stan, I'll amend my own posting.
Mick
Hi Mick
Thanks for your kind feedback and ideas.
Please see attached photos of corner of layout still to be completed and two photos of the 'other side' which is more or less complete!
I found some n gauge Plate Girder bridge sides in my parts box which I purchased at the start of this adventure possibly for this corner. I've stuck one in roughly in the photo and it may be an option. I think I have to decide what is the landscape for this corner first and then decide on a bridge to suit....basic style like Nixnie, more robust plate girder or the cast iron option.
Someone had pointed me towards Nixnie when I started out on this layout 4 years ago and the images you have supplied certainly provide inspiration for me. I love the roving reporter railcar!
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the compliment about the (now ageing just like me!) railcar and also for the new views of your layout. The plate girder bridge sides would look fine as a bridge basis in my opinion, and would suit the corner location.
I've see a number of photos of this type of bridge, sited on curves but retaining the straight sides. I think I remember an overhead view of one on the Puffing Billy Railway in Australia, if you do a google search on that it might well turn up photos of it which will give you tips on what the bridge decking looks like from above.
From your new photos it suggests that the layout is a continuous run with no fiddle yard - or is the siding on the left of the new "other side" photos one that may lead off to a fiddle stick or yard?
Keep up the good work, very interesting and inspiring!
Mick
As Mick says the curved track was often built over straight girders as it is easier to make straight girders and they tend to be more stable and stronger.
Here (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Curved_railway_bridge.jpg) is an example...
And this one from Greece is a bit more extreme (https://www.alamy.com/narrow-gauge-railway-built-by-evaristo-de-chirico-mount-pelion-greece-march-2008-image263061623.html?imageid=4DEE7188-CD1B-4EF7-90A0-E8FE858EAC88&p=269342&pn=1&searchId=9a248c3614384682d6c864ae981052a0&searchtype=0) with a few more photos of the line including a train on the bridge (https://www.archaeology.wiki/blog/2013/08/14/the-little-train-of-pelion/).
Thanks Mick and Julien
This photo gives an 'aerial' view of most of the layout. Just 160 x 60 cms with a continuous run. I find it very relaxing to watch trains trundle round. The newly created halt gives somewhere to stop at and I hope in time to consider what operations I can run moving goods etc from station to siding at other side etc. I think I will have to reduce the amount of stock on layout!
One of the sidings at the station may eventually lead to another board...009 News, Forum and YouTube etc provides great inspiration for further scenes!
Julien, that's a very helpful picture and lets me see how I could do a bridge on the curve using this planking approach.
Photos attached.
Foam board has certain benefits for scenery but more problematic for point motors and signals!
I had a recent thought on that based on our currently developing ScOONs modular layout. It has not been tried out on foam insulation baseboards but it might be transferrable.
We are laying 3 mm cork or equivalent (I'm using 3 mm dark grey dense synthetic rubber foam sold as track underlay, manufacturer forgotten) on top of Scale Model Scenery baseboard modules.
Where we need the track to be fixed more firmly such as at the module joins we are using track soldered to PCB sleepers (others use Railpro rail aligners) glued firmly to a solid 3mm base. I'm using three laminations of 1 mm plasticard.
If using underlay over a foam baseboard then a similar thing might be done under the relevant part of turnouts. A bit of 'cut and cover' tunneling could be done, with a sufficiently large hole made in the foam and covered with 3 mm of rigid material. Small blocks of wood etc. could be glued to the underside for screwing point motors to.
It is just a variation on the old method of drilling or cutting an oversized hole in a baseboard top and covering it with thin card with a slot for the actuator wire.
Quote from: GraemeD on November 08, 2023, 08:01
I had a recent thought on that based on our currently developing ScOONs modular layout. It has not been tried out on foam insulation baseboards but it might be transferrable.
We are laying 3 mm cork or equivalent (I'm using 3 mm dark grey dense synthetic rubber foam sold as track underlay, manufacturer forgotten) on top of Scale Model Scenery baseboard modules.
Where we need the track to be fixed more firmly such as at the module joins we are using track soldered to PCB sleepers (others use Railpro rail aligners) glued firmly to a solid 3mm base. I'm using three laminations of 1 mm plasticard.
If using underlay over a foam baseboard then a similar thing might be done under the relevant part of turnouts. A bit of 'cut and cover' tunneling could be done, with a sufficiently large hole made in the foam and covered with 3 mm of rigid material. Small blocks of wood etc. could be glued to the underside for screwing point motors to.
It is just a variation on the old method of drilling or cutting an oversized hole in a baseboard top and covering it with thin card with a slot for the actuator wire, but extending to the whole point motor, not just the wire.
Graeme, I followed what you have outlined and it is doable to install point motors or indeed any device required under the track. As a rookie, I probably just took a bit longer and my method was perhaps not the easiest route.
I dug a square out of the board, creating what appeared to be a 60mm deep mine shaft! I then lined this with 2 mm plywood (I think) and then laid a small section on top. I could then attach the pint motor to this piece of wood and relay the track.
The downside on my layout is that if the point motor needs attention, I gave to dig up this part of the scene, or at least removal gravel and lift out point. If motor was under the board this would be easier.
I could of course have drilled out the bottom of the actual baseboard so motor could be accessed. However, such access would require long fingers as one would have the reach more than 70mm to get to where point motor is attached to the wood.
I was using the new Peco twist lock point motor as I thought its design would help me as I'd never tried to install a pint motor before.