Hello all,
I'm new to the hobby (and the 009 Society) so I hope you'll forgive my lack of knowledge.
I'm trying to model the Tralee & Dingle railway but as you probably know, locomotive kits for it are non-existent. Which means the one 3D print from Shapeways or a scratch build.
By my question for you guys is about the chassis. From one site I saw that the builder used a Graham Farrish N scale GWR 2-6-2T Prairie locomotive. But as these are hard to come by (and I'm trying to keep my costs as low as possible), I just wondered if there might be another loco chassis that I could use, even an American loco because I'm in the U.S. and there seems to be a lot out there. I just don't know enough about it to even start.
Anyway, any suggestions for this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John
Hello John, and welcome to the Society and the hobby.
As you probably know the Tralee & Dingle (T&D) was a 3' gauge line, so to be accurate with respects to 4mm:1ft scale (1:76) you'd need to be using 12 mm gauge track - a combination known as OOn3.
This may not be as hard as you think, as Peco sell 12mm gauge HOm track and points which will be fine for OOn3 use. Dundas sell a range of T&D wagons that can be purchased with 12mm gauge wheel sets included (these are the same as the 009 wheel sets, just with the wheels spaced differently on the axles), and as the same chassis is used in the 009 Society's cattle wagon kit you could swap the wheel sets or do as I did with mine and regauge the 009 ones to suit.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52214391657_c729690fe3.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ny1pw2)
With respect to loco Branchlines do an etched brass kit for the Hunslet 2-6-0T that can be converted into the 2-6-2 version, but this is a complete kits that includes the chassis parts (so may be something for the more experienced builder). Also I'm not sure on current availability as there may be a supply issue with the wheels.
Other etched brass kits for stock are available from Worsley Works, but these are more 'aids to scratch building' rather than full kits.
However I note that you are based in the US, so I'd like to propose an alternative option. Chivers Finlines, also known as Five79, made a cast white metal kit for the Hunslet 2-6-0T in HO scale (3.5mm to one foot, or 1:87). I'm not sure of the current production status but it might be worth contacting them to see if they may be able to cast some to special order. That kit is designed to use a Graham Farish 4-6-0 chassis - I think the GWR 'Hall' but I've fitted mine(*) with with the chassis from the Graham Farish 'Black 5' as that chassis has the Walscherts valve gear that the T&D loco also had - to run with 009 stock. Similarly any of the Farish 2-6-2 chassis could be used, but again I'd go for the British Railway types that unlike the GWR ones have external Walsherts valve gear.
I also wonder if the Bachmann N-scale Baldwin 4-6-0 tender loco would fit the bill...
However as a slightly off the wall suggestion it strikes me that with a little bit of work the Farish chassis could be regauged up to 10.5mm gauge. It may need the 9mm gauge axles replacing with longer ones (or as simple as just easing the wheels out 3/4mm each side), and you could use HOn3 for your track and points (and have something a little different to run on a D&RGS / RGS HOn3 layout). Rolling stock would be a little more difficult in HO, but I wonder if some of the bigger 009 stock - that for the Welshpool & Llanfair for example - could be 'passed off' as goods stock, with maybe the Vale of Rheidol or WHR Eisteddfod coach or Ffestiniog bogie coached being used as parts for 'kit bashing' passenger vehicles.
(*) I modified mine with a 4mm scale cab...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3773/32300934544_75030c73fc.jpg)
This is 'Maya' on Andy Cundick's 009 layout 'Lanfairish' (https://flic.kr/p/RdjJuy)
Steam 9mm gauge N gauge chassis for use in 009 locos without tenders that are in production today are few in number and those that are available are not cheap.
The only cheap option is the Kato four-wheel chassis that is only useful in diesel locos or steam locos with tram skirts.
The old Five79 (ex Chivers Finelines) Tralee & Dingle H0 scale Hunslet 2-6-0T white metal kit that dates back to the 1980's was designed for a Graham Farrish chassis that has not been available for many years. This could well be the model you have seen.
A full 00 scale 3d printed T&D loco body may well look obvioulsy too big for a 9mm gauge chassis, 009 track and other 009 vehicles.
As mentioned the 3-foot gauge of the Tralee & Dingle railway works out at 12mm gauge in 00 scale and 10.5mm gauge in H0 scale (Also known as H0n3).
Phew!
Well welcome from me as well to the 009 Soc John. With your specialist interest of the T&D and your location in the US, you have certainly got an ambitious project on your hands and have jumped into the deep end somewhat!
Fortunately, as both Julien and Brian have covered, there isn't too much of a problem with goods (freight!) rolling stock at least - provided you are working in 1:76 4mm scale and not 1:87 HOn3! Plastic kits of the 3 types of goods vans and an open wagon are all available from Dundas, proprietor Andrew Hastie, who is an Honorary Life Member of the 009 Society and runs a very efficient and prompt business and Service (with a capital S), unlike some of the "box shifters" that you may have come aware of since the "009 Ready to Run Retail Revolution" sparked huge interest in the scale. There is also of course the 009 Society members cattle van kit which uses the same chassis as the Dundas models.
I'm not immediately familiar with the Worsley Works website (Proprietor Allen Doherty), but it is quite possible that he may have included more T&D goods vehicles and passenger ones as well. As has already been said, these aren't kits but "scratch aids" and consist of etched brass sheets with the vehicle body on them, no instructions and you have to source your own wheels (again, Dundas can supply a wide range of wheel diameters on axles which can be adapted for any gauge from 9 through to 12mm.
Locos, well yes! Branchlines do or did 4mm kits for 12mm gauge but as has already been said, availability is unsure. Chivers Finelines (was Five79 but is now back to Chivers finelines) have a good website but I think you will find that their HO scale whitemetal T&D Hunslet is not listed. Well worth contacting them and asking if they have any "on the back shelf" or are likely to be doing another run. I know that Matt Chivers did produce a limited run of these kits a few years ago in response to requests, so it is always worth asking.
As you are now a member you also have access to the 009 Society Sales. Don't be totally constrained by the selection that is posted on the Society website and changes frequently, they have good stocks which are taken out to a number of Society events each year. They don't run a "wants list" any more, but are very active in the mail order sdie of things and volunteer members meet weekly to deal with online orders, but are not averse to attempting to help someone such as yourself who lives "overseas" and can't get to events. All you need to do is send an email to the Sales Officer, Lee Bryant - email address listed on page 2 of 009 News, and ask him if he has a chivers T&D Hunslet in stock and if he has, or knows he has one coming in, I'm confident that he would do his best to assist you.
One final word on the T&D Hunslet - yes it is 1/87 (3½mm\ HO scale but it does match the size of "normal 009" 1/76 (4mm) locos which generally are smaller full size. However many 009 modellers have one of these in their rosters and there are several straightforward ways of adapting them so they don't need a 4mm scale dwarf to get in the cab!. One that I have has simply had the curved top of the cabside doors opened out with a file, others have increased the height of the cab slightly or put a new one on if they have a stash of older kit parts (this won't apply to you!) or have raised the general height of the whole body by a couple of mm from the chassis.
Finally! - Chassis - Julien mentioned below that he has used a Grafar LMS Black 5 in preference to the recommended Grafar (Graham Farish or simply "Farish") Great Western Hall class 4-6-0 has it has full valve gear, where the Hall only has coupling and piston rods. Another Grafar one that will suit is the British Railways 4MT 2-6-4 tank loco, which has been used successfully by Ted Polet on his famous Craigcorrie & Dunalistair Railway - go to the 009 Society Dutch Group website to check out Ted's considerable number of postings which include the details of his T&D Hunslet fleet number 3D (D = Dunalistair!).
I hope you find membership of the Society enjoyable and to your benefit. We are a diverse lot but (nearly) all of us are friendly and have a flexible and "fun" approach to the hobby overall. The 3 of us who have replied so far have all been members for around 40 years or more so if we are all still hanging on, then it can't be that bad can it!!
Mick
Thank you so much everyone I really appreciate your help and great advice!
John
Hi Julien,
I did actually contact Chivers but I don't think I ever got a response and Branchlines seems to be out of business. Maybe I'm wrong about that? But thank you for all the great suggestions.
John
Quote from: John Hurley on May 02, 2023, 01:27
Hi Julien,
I did actually contact Chivers but I don't think I ever got a response and Branchlines seems to be out of business. Maybe I'm wrong about that? But thank you for all the great suggestions.
John
With Branchlines the issue there is that other than an e-mail address (sales@branchlines.com) and a somewhat out of date blog (http://branchlines.blogspot.com/) they do not have any web presence. It was Backwoods Miniatures who went out of business, but most of their kits have been taken on by N-Drive Productions to resurface at some point.
As to Chivers Roger has very much taken a back seat due to health issues. Son Matt now runs the kits side (certainly the 009 side, not sure about the other stuff). Current website is here (https://www.chiversfinelines.co.uk/) and there is a contact page. The T&D loco is not currently listed, but if the moulds are still useable he may be able to cast a few kits to order.
John,
Have you contcated the 00n3 Special Interst Group on this forum - that's where you will find a few modellers of the Irish 3-ft.
Quote from: hughn on May 02, 2023, 13:58
John,
Have you contcated the 00n3 Special Interst Group on this forum - that's where you will find a few modellers of the Irish 3-ft.
No but I will! Thank you!
Quote from: JulienW on May 02, 2023, 10:42
Quote from: John Hurley on May 02, 2023, 01:27
Hi Julien,
I did actually contact Chivers but I don't think I ever got a response and Branchlines seems to be out of business. Maybe I'm wrong about that? But thank you for all the great suggestions.
John
With Branchlines the issue there is that other than an e-mail address (sales@branchlines.com) and a somewhat out of date blog (http://branchlines.blogspot.com/) they do not have any web presence. It was Backwoods Miniatures who went out of business, but most of their kits have been taken on by N-Drive Productions to resurface at some point.
As to Chivers Roger has very much taken a back seat due to health issues. Son Matt now runs the kits side (certainly the 009 side, not sure about the other stuff). Current website is here (https://www.chiversfinelines.co.uk/) and there is a contact page. The T&D loco is not currently listed, but if the moulds are still useable he may be able to cast a few kits to order.
You're absolutely right I was confusing them with Backwoods. So thanks for that I'll send off an email and see what happens! And I'll try Chivers again it's been a few months since I last wrote.
Thank you again really appreciate your help!
John
Hi John
Have you had a response from Brian at Branchlines yet?. I only ask as I live quite near to him and also model the T&D. Last time I spoke to him which was probably back in January I thought that he had one remaining in stock but was thinking of doing another run once he could arrange to get a supply of wheels. I'm happy to prompt him as I would like another kit to put away for a future build.
Regards Peter
Quote from: Peter Leach on May 08, 2023, 21:44
Hi John
...... Last time I spoke to him which was probably back in January I thought that he had one remaining in stock but was thinking of doing another run once he could arrange to get a supply of wheels......
Regards Peter
That is a problem with several of the chassis kits. (Including many of the kts in the Backwoods range.)
The wheels are no longer made, and there is no chance that they will ever be produced again.
The same goes for the motors, and in some cases even the gears.
Quote from: Peter Leach on May 08, 2023, 21:44
Hi John
Have you had a response from Brian at Branchlines yet?. I only ask as I live quite near to him and also model the T&D. Last time I spoke to him which was probably back in January I thought that he had one remaining in stock but was thinking of doing another run once he could arrange to get a supply of wheels. I'm happy to prompt him as I would like another kit to put away for a future build.
Regards Peter
Hi Peter
I don't know if you saw my original post here but changed my mind and decided to take you up on your offer if that's ok. My skill level is not up to making the kit but i was thinking that it would be nice to have it for the future as my skills improve.
Thank you,
John