OK, so I have been working on my very first 009 layout (despite having dabbled with 009 about 30 years ago with a few items of stock and set track) and thought I would share my build. The name Spring Pass came about because one of the scenic aspects will be a small bridge over a small stream supplied by a natural spring eminating from the hill side.
The purpose of this is of course to enjoy the process, but also keeps things fairly simple and cheap, use it as a learning exercise to practice modelling, and be comfortable in making mistakes and learning. I have other future layout ideas so am building up to that. I also have a two year old boy so time, money and energy are at a premium!
The layout has the following criteria:
- Continuous running
- Basic level of operational scope
- Gradient
- A bridge
- Would like a tunnel but I might leave that out for the moment
I am not tied to an era or even a location, I want to be able to run what I fancy, as long as it is believable.
Anyway, the first step was to construct the baseboard. This was done using foam board and polystyrene. The layout size is 805 x 595mm or ~31" x ~23". You can see a more detailed post about it here: https://www.009society.com/forum/index.php?topic=4668.msg36814#msg36814 (https://www.009society.com/forum/index.php?topic=4668.msg36814#msg36814)
In terms of a track plan, I drew out some ideas on paper and had ideas in my head, but in reality I have just laid the track out until I was happy with what I saw. I have a passing loop, with a couple of sidings (one of which I have not fully decided how to layout), plus two gradients going around the "back" of the layout.
The gradient was constructed by cutting some polystyrene using a circular saw, then cutting into segments so the blocks could be laid out in the curves. All of these where PVA'ed in place. So a couple of mistakes here:
- Curves are a little tight, but given I am only going to run short wheel base, 4 axle wagons and locos I am happy the curves can be navigated
- The cutting was not spot on, despite using a spirit level as a fence for the saw, so I had to use a little Polyfiller to even out the gradient, but it worked out OK
Now onto the electrics, and I am using electro frog points. The wiring is simple, with the ability to feed the power into the layout from two sides depending on which way around I want to run the layout from on my worktop.
Power is fed into using this power connector from eBay, where I can quickly attach the power controller (the leads have ferrules on the ends that are clamped down on): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112552710276 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112552710276)
Underneath, the wires are joined using these wire connectors from Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071H7L3P3 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071H7L3P3)
Here is some more laid track, plus the start of forming the hill side, the "cove" and stream where the natural spring comes from.
Here is a better view of the current track plan. The siding off the run around loop will probably serve a small industry, but what that will be is TBD.
The track is a mixture of set track (that I had available so wanted to use) and flexi-track. I have stuck down some parts of the track using PVA, mostly where the flexi-track is to hold it in place, and have used track pins throughout. Once it all gets ballasted I may remove the pins for asthenic reasons.
I used some 2mm cork as a track base (as I had it spare anyway) and that will form a shoulder for the ballast. Again, all stuck down with PVA.
This is looking good.
Personaly I am not a fan of 'soft' trackbeds, I use 1/4 (6mm) plywood cut to shape for the trackbed, I just find this is best for holding everything in place. But the rest of the surface made from polystyrene and foam board is a great idea.
Did you insert the neecessary isolating fishplattes between the elecgrofrogs? I can not see from the photos if you have or not?
I would also recommend some form of frog polarity switching as the blade to fixed rail switching in the 009 points can be very unreliable.
Quote from: B.Meldon on March 28, 2023, 08:13
This is looking good.
Personaly I am not a fan of 'soft' trackbeds, I use 1/4 (6mm) plywood cut to shape for the trackbed, I just find this is best for holding everything in place. But the rest of the surface made from polystyrene and foam board is a great idea.
Did you insert the neecessary isolating fishplattes between the elecgrofrogs? I can not see from the photos if you have or not?
I would also recommend some form of frog polarity switching as the blade to fixed rail switching in the 009 points can be very unreliable.
Thanks. With the cork bed, the track pins hold pretty well, but would agree that just into the polystyrene would not be that good. Once it is all ballasted then I think it should be pretty rock solid.
As for the isolating fishplates, yes these have been fitted and electrically tested and all works well. But I would agree with the unreliability. I had a new point that just would not make proper contact so had to swap it out. I have not fitted point motors or any switches so maybe I should whilst at this stage of the build. It comes down to cost really as I am trying to keep this as budget as possible, but will think about it.
Quote from: Justin Phillips on March 28, 2023, 11:36
As for the isolating fishplates, yes these have been fitted and electrically tested and all works well. But I would agree with the unreliability. I had a new point that just would not make proper contact so had to swap it out. I have not fitted point motors or any switches so maybe I should whilst at this stage of the build. It comes down to cost really as I am trying to keep this as budget as possible, but will think about it.
The frog polarity switching does not have to be expensive. A simple wire in tube or rod in grove system with a two way switch at the end does the job.
Here are a couple of examples.
The first is a very basic set up with a SPST toggle switch next to the point.
The second is a DPDT slide switch with a rod made from 00 rail on its side in a grove. (This is on a 1980's layout made by the late Roy Watson.) These switches are about 0.50p each when you get 10 or more. (Less if you get them from China.)
Thanks Brian. I guess I am hesitant to lift up the track to fit some kind of switching system, but then it would be a false economy not to if in the future the points did fail. Something to ponder over the coming days.
Quote from: Justin Phillips on March 29, 2023, 12:05
Thanks Brian. I guess I am hesitant to lift up the track to fit some kind of switching system, but then it would be a false economy not to if in the future the points did fail. Something to ponder over the coming days.
I can almost guarantee that the fixed rail to blade electrical switching in at least one point, and probably all of them will fail, and probably at the worst possible moment as well.
Here is another way it can be done using a microswitch next to the point with a short extension acting on the end of the point tie bar. This is covered so it can not be seen from the viewing side of the layout.
Quote from: B.Meldon on March 29, 2023, 12:57
I can almost guarantee that the fixed rail to blade electrical switching in at least one point, and probably all of them will fail, and probably at the worst possible moment as well.
Here is another way it can be done using a microswitch next to the point with a short extension acting on the end of the point tie bar. This is covered so it can not be seen from the viewing side of the layout.
Thank you. I was looking at something like this today and thinking how to tie it to the throwing action of the point. I don't want nor need point motors.
I'm a fan of three dimensional layouts so approve of the gradients!
Also congratulations in avoiding track parallel to the layout sides.
Will follow with interest.
David.
Quote from: clayliner on March 30, 2023, 19:00
I'm a fan of three dimensional layouts so approve of the gradients!
Also congratulations in avoiding track parallel to the layout sides.
Will follow with interest.
David.
Thanks. I have read up on the "do's and don'ts" of layouts and have tried to follow as much as space allows, with non-parallel tracks being one of them.
I have taken heed of Brians suggestion and will be fitting microswitches to switch the frog polarity. So I have built a little POC. My only concern is that in order to get the throwing distance right I need to place the U channel further along the microswitch arm more than I would like, which increases the pressure on the point spring. It does feel like it is teetering a bit when the point is thrown. In any case, here are the materials I have used:
- Microswitch: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SGX5D87/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SGX5D87/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1)
- Throwing rod: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082ZNZCXN?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082ZNZCXN?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1)
- Brass tubing (3mm OD): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360813916387?var=633111880527 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360813916387?var=633111880527)
- Brass U channel (1/8" outside): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234118646927?var=533747539132 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234118646927?var=533747539132)
The brass tubing was epoxied into the channel in the foam and secured further with a long staple. The U channel was also epoxied to the arm of the microswitch. The microswitch was then hot glued to the foam, and further secured with some annular fascia board nails I had lying around. It all feels pretty solid so far.
Now I am mostly happy with this approach, I am going to fit switches to the layout proper. I have already ripped up the required track ready to do so :'(
There are several different designs of microswitch.
The ones you have chosen may not have been the ideal choice.
It was well over 30 years ago that we purchased the ones fitted on Meanderbahn, so my memory may not be that good, but thinking back think I do recall trying several versions from several local suppliers before we went for the ones we did.
You may not be able to see from the photos but the ones we used have the arm pivot at one end with the press switch close to the pivot. They are very light in operation and have a small amount of arm movement needed to work the switch. They also look smaller than the one in your photo, so may well be so called 'Subminiature' micro switches.
I should have mentioned this before, but as I said it was many years ago now.
I did have some spares, but I used them up on another project.
Something that is worth checking carefully is the nature of their low force action. Some are 'low force' only because they have a longer lever arm so you are trading actuating force for distance moved and there may not be enough movement in the point blades to cause them to change state. It may be possible to 'pre-stress' the lever so it is just on the verge of toggling over but then a bump or some vibration might be enough to cause it to do so.
One way round this is to decouple the movement of the actuator (manual pushing of a lever or electro-mechanical) and the movement of the point blades, with the switch operating in sympathy with the lever, not the point blade.
This could be achieved by 'gearing' down the movement with an intermediate lever or employing a form of slip clutch or deliberate backlash. A common solution was to use the innards of a couple of segments of a chocolate block connector clamped at the appropriate place and distance apart to move a dropper wire beneath the baseboard, or an arm above the baseboard.
This is not quite it, but similar construction:
http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/images/Point_02_800.jpg (http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/images/Point_02_800.jpg)
(Not https, so you may have to click the link to see)
http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Hall_Royd_Model/layout_50.html (http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Hall_Royd_Model/layout_50.html)
Edit: I've been naughty and cribbed the image and attached here (acknowledgement to the original source).
One "tried and tested" method (but not used by me) to compensate for the difference in switch-throw to point-blade throw is the "Omega" link. Used, I believe, with those slide switches, it involves making a loop in the shape of a capital Omega with one end inserted in the switch "paddle" (?) and the other going to the link to the point. It's function is to take up any other-throw in the switch mechanism without stressing the points.
(Now I need to find a suitable photo...)
I've never really liked omega loops. They absorb extra throw but, because they are asymmetric, they tend to twist to one side as they do so. My preference is for a Z shaped section of wire which tends not to twist so much and is MUCH easier to make. I don't have a photo either, but I'll need to make some soon for one of the modules I'm building for the ScOONs modular project. I'll try to remember to take a photo and to post it in this thread. (It will be a while, so don't hold your breath.)
Ian
Quote from: hughn on April 19, 2023, 15:53One "tried and tested" method (but not used by me) to compensate for the difference in switch-throw to point-blade throw is the "Omega" link.
As it happens, some will be on sale online within the next week - SKU 952, if you were tempted (there is a picture, but you probably won't be able to see it until the item is back in stock). Plus assorted other GEM/Mercontrol point control items.
The Sales Team.
Thanks all for the info and advice. Will have a think over the coming days to work out what I will do next.
I have found some miniature micro-switches that have a very low required force and do just the job. It is held in place by a small blob of epoxy and cocktail sticks. Have fitted the first one and electrically it checks out, so just another 3 points to go.
I did make the noobie error of wiring the common wire to the underside of the frog where the small bonding wire is spot welded on. I almost melted the plastic around the frog, but have got away with it. Instead, I could (should) have added a dropper wire off one of the rails coming off the frog a little away from it. But you live and learn, and this layout is about learning.
That is looking good.
From experience I would recommend that you ensure that you have access to the microswitch once the layout is complete, perhaps with a removable building or section of scenery.
Unfortunately you will find that it is the one switch that cannot be accessed that will be the one you need to get to at some time in the future!!
The same goes for the actual points, it is not a good idea to have a point in a tunnel where it cannot be accessed.
I used to have a photocopy of the multitude of variations on Murphy's Law. One was definitely on the inaccessibility of the part that proved to be the most likely to fail. :)
Agree, and I am placing the switches at the correct distance from each point to cover with a building or structure of some kind.
Track work finished with miniature microswitches, and all working as expected. Next job I think is to build the bridge.
Started on the bridge tonight. It is an I beam design, which will have braces to form a ladder. Done a dry fit of the abutments and the main beans, and I think the proportions look OK.
Quote from: Justin Phillips on July 11, 2023, 22:41
Started on the bridge tonight. It is an I beam design, which will have braces to form a ladder. Done a dry fit of the abutments and the main beans, and I think the proportions look OK.
This looks good.
A bridge like this would have had check rails fitted.
As it happens the Peco 009 track is made so that if you add check rails with the same rail, on the sleepers inside the running rails they are fractional lower than the running rails so they do not catch on anything and you can still clean the running rails as normal.
Quote from: B.Meldon on July 12, 2023, 10:11
This looks good.
A bridge like this would have had check rails fitted.
As it happens the Peco 009 track is made so that if you add check rails with the same rail, on the sleepers inside the running rails they are fractional lower than the running rails so they do not catch on anything and you can still clean the running rails as normal.
Thanks for the info. I wondered about check rails or just guard rails (wood?) fixed to the outer edge of the sleepers to stop the train falling off. I don't intend however on having a hand rail, so for someone to be able to walk over it (for maintenance), I was thinking of boarding down the middle.
Boarding?? Luxury. Many high viaducts in Cuba had only the sleepers to walk on, they were not always well fixed, sometimes the odd one was missing. Still if you want the picture you have to get to the right spot, even if you don't hasve a head for heights.
I am missing something on my abutments, and that is a small retaining wall / block to stop earth and ballast from falling. So I will probably model a small cast concrete block that will look like it is part of the concrete slab that is sat on top.
Whilst waiting for my abutments to dry I thought I would start to put together my one and only loco and give it a run. It needs weathering etc. The rolling stock is Lilliput that I bought probably 30 years ago now, and both them and engine look a little out of scale with each other if I am honest.
https://vimeo.com/846396770 (https://vimeo.com/846396770)
Yes the loco is 00 (4mm to the foot) and the Liliput rolling stock is H0 (3.5mm to the foot).
Also as is common with many of the bodies for the kato chassis the running plate is too high above the rails making the body sit too high.
That said it is not unusual for the loco cabs to be taller than the rolling stock on real narrow gauge railways and the loco is a freelance design anyway.
Yes, I can see what you mean...!
David.
P.S. Maybe you can find some bigger rolling stock (cheap) in the Society online shop? :)
Quote from: clayliner on July 19, 2023, 12:12
P.S. Maybe you can find some bigger rolling stock (cheap) in the Society online shop? :)
I am not planning to use the Lilliput wagons long term, to be honest I may sell them. I am starting to look at some 009 kits to slowly build up my collection.
Quote from: Justin Phillips on July 19, 2023, 17:27
Quote from: clayliner on July 19, 2023, 12:12
P.S. Maybe you can find some bigger rolling stock (cheap) in the Society online shop? :)
I am not planning to use the Lilliput wagons long term, to be honest I may sell them. I am starting to look at some 009 kits to slowly build up my collection.
Even though they are H0 scale the Liliput (one L) vans are still about the same height as most 009 vans as they are models of large 2'6" gauge vehicles. It is more about the loco being over tall even for 00 scale than it is the rolling stock being small. But as I mentioned it is not unusual for the cab on locos to be taller than the rolling stock and after all this is a freelance layout with a freelance loco, so it is up to you.
Quote from: B.Meldon on July 20, 2023, 08:46
Even though they are H0 scale the Liliput (one L) vans are still about the same height as most 009 vans as they are models of large 2'6" gauge vehicles. It is more about the loco being over tall even for 00 scale than it is the rolling stock being small. But as I mentioned it is not unusual for the cab on locos to be taller than the rolling stock and after all this is a freelance layout with a freelance loco, so it is up to you.
I did think the loco seemed a bit chunky to be honest (and there are other issues with the model I am not a fan of, but that is something for another day).
I agree about it being freelance but it has to be believable at the same time. But as this layout is really a test bed and learning exercise, so equally I am not going to stress too much about it. I will go down that road in future layouts :-\