We have been thinking about a modular layout for a while and things are now starting to move. Brian has come up with some ideas and a small group of us have been doing a bit of investigation. We are now at the point of wanting to tie down some specifications and will be holding a Zoom meeting before the scheduled one on the 20th of March, or rather extending this meeting to start an hour earlier.
Monday 20th March 2023 @ 1900 - ScOONs Modular Layout specification
Monday 20th March 2023 @ 2000 - normal ScOONs meeting
The published Zoom link should work throughout the evening. If not an update will be posted here.
All members are welcome to join the discussion on the modular layout, but bear in mind we would like to stay focussed on the topic until the scheduled time for the normal meeting.
One of the topics for discussion is likely to be the specific aims of the project and perhaps even get all corporate-like with a mission statement if we feel so inclined, ;) but the background to the idea includes things such as having something to show at exhibitions that varies from event to event, making it as simple as possible to participate and enable us in some way to undertake some of the activities that a bricks-and-mortar model railway club might do.
To this end the modules make use of a small inexpensive laser-cut baseboard that individually would make a nice diorama, photo plank or micro layout for their owners.
The view at present is that we are most likely to undertake a small pilot study to see if it is possible to bring modules together for the first time at an exhibition and hopefully deal with any snags.
At the meeting there will be a recap of developments so far (all pretty general) if you have not been following past discussions at Zoom meetings. If you have general questions perhaps it is best to leave them to the main meeting. If there are topics that should be included in the agenda please let me know.
As an outside observer I'm not in a position to make any suggestion, but the "FreeM009 (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/124103-freem009-a-modular-system-for-british-009/)" standards seem to be being taken up quite widely both within and without the 009 Society and may be worth considering.
Graeme, the standards the Oxford group are using are available on our website oxngm.org.uk and might be useful as a starting point. Our standards have evolved since we started two years ago. Barry
Quote from: Barry Witteridge on March 10, 2023, 17:47
Graeme, the standards the Oxford group are using are available on our website oxngm.org.uk and might be useful as a starting point. Our standards have evolved since we started two years ago. Barry
Thanks Barry. We are looking at existing modular designs and yours is one of them.
http://oxngm.org.uk/009%20Oxon%20Group%20Modular%20Layout%20Standards%202022-04-25a.pdf (http://oxngm.org.uk/009%20Oxon%20Group%20Modular%20Layout%20Standards%202022-04-25a.pdf)
Our intentions are probably a little different I guess as we generally don't meet up except at exhibitions. Also an important aspect of our intended modular design is that it is (most likely and initially at least) to enhance the ScOONs/009 Society stand rather than as a separate exhibition layout.
We have identified that a critical part of the implementation will be how we align tracks between modules, especially given the restrictions on meeting up so advice is welcome!
Hi Graeme
Sadly my plans for my shed can't be part of Sc00N's plan I'll wish you Guys all the best with your plans for this project and wish you every success
Thanks
Alan
Graeme,
Using Grainge and Hodder baseboards with alignment dowels has certainly helped and we have started to Modeltech Protrack aligners along with a template baseboard recently, I believe an article may appear in the 009 News soon.
Barry
Quote from: Barry Witteridge on March 13, 2023, 17:52
Graeme,
Using Grainge and Hodder baseboards with alignment dowels has certainly helped and we have started to Modeltech Protrack aligners along with a template baseboard recently, I believe an article may appear in the 009 News soon.
Barry
Thanks. How have you found the Modeltech rail aligners? I bought some to try, with a view to using them on our modules. I don't know if I got a bad batch but the milling of the shape was rather sloppy, including a 'nubbin' on the intermeshing business bit that needed filing down on some of them. It didn't look like the typical crisp CNC milling one would find on a shaped PCB.
One of our big challenges is that we do not come together except at exhibitions mostly so there is little opportunity to do a test run of linking up modules to deal with snagging.
Graeme, PM with your telephone number and we can have a chat about our experiences
Graeme,
The great thing about standards is how many there are! On this linked page https://farnhammrc.org.uk/?page_id=2091 (https://farnhammrc.org.uk/?page_id=2091) you will find the Farnham club's 009 modular system specs.
After a few years' experience, I can say that everything works. The critical issues are track alignment at board ends and everybody following the wiring protocol to the letter. For track alignment we ended up with carefully aligned track, the same on each commercially purchased baseboard module. On reflection, I would probably change to less absolute rigidity, but do the final alignment by using bolts passing through sloppy holes, to allow final aligment by eye.
If you would like any further info, just drop me an email.
Julian
Thanks Julian.
It puts me in mind of this:
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png)
When I first read the Fremo HOe 'Norm' (looking at the figures, guessing and use of Google Translate) I thought the means of joining modules very crude. However I now think it is something of a stroke of genius - essentially the track only has to be reasonably flush with the edge and the end boards reasonably close to right angles to the track horizontally and vertically. The rest can be sorted with manual adjustment.
https://www.fremo-net.eu/en/modular-systems/h0-scale/h0-europe/h0e/ (https://www.fremo-net.eu/en/modular-systems/h0-scale/h0-europe/h0e/)
I also got a copy emailed to me a couple of years ago ;) ;)
It's a pity the handbook is still behind the Fremo 'pay wall'.
I see this new {2022) version of the Fremo H0e Norm has gone over to DCC control. If statrting from scratch perhaps it makes life easier, but the old verson of the norm assumed DC control whichj is what we have used. If you need a copy of this, let me know.
Julian
I've completed what I set out to do and made a jig for soldering up the ProTrack rail aligners and tested a rail join made with it.
Some fairly ropey soldering. (The second one was better!)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52788150330_4d767cfa06_c_d.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbNuYFHNz84 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbNuYFHNz84)
Well, it works, but whether it is the most suitable method of ensuring our modules join remains to be seen.
As a fellow Oxford NG member, I think that they are quicker to set up that our previous system, but there are a few issues with out implementation
The construction of G&H modules is relatively easy, but there is some variation in dimensions of the boards within the group. Some people used nails to hold the parts together, others glue, most used both, some used sash cramps, some used ratchet straps, and others relied upon a pile of books the weight of the air above to hold them in position while the glue(s) dried.
The second issue is we chose to use 3mm cork under the track, but in practice I have measured 2.5-3.5 mm from the same sheet by the time it has been glued down.
The other problem is how the track was originally fixed to the board and cork, some used small screws, some track pins, and others just glue.
The result all these is that we have variations of up to +/- 2mm, horizontally, vertically between tracks, and some of them are slightly higher on one side than the other.
We have a standard template with a short length of track that fixes on the end of a module so we could use it as a known reference. This was a life saver, but if we did this again I would make two templates, one for each end, so that you can check them against each other. We fix the adapters down with very small 8mm screws which gives us little vertical and horizontal adjustment, and shims of card to get the track level.
Even after all that you cannot guarantee that any two modules will join up together without a little fettling. We spent over an hour yesterday setting up 6 boards, some were great, some needed fettling and and others were swapped around to make things possible.
To anybody else considering a mix and match modular system I would strongly recommend that
1 - Use Metal pattern makers dowels (see below) instead of wooden dowels to get perfect alignment each time, and have one board as "The Master" against which all other will be checked.
2 - Use 3mm (or similar) ply for the first 5-10cm of track instead of cork, to ensure that any discrepancies were taken care of away from the joint.
3 - Protrack adapters with 5-10cm of straight track should be lined up, then pinned and glued in position before laying any other track.
4 - Make two reference templates (see above)
(https://www.stationroadbaseboards.co.uk/gallery/FD2501-1-off.jpg)
The main problem with the ScOONs modular project is that we meet in person so rarely. This coupled with the physical distance between us makes the sharing of a master module or standard templates very difficult. We're taking a different approach by developing a set of standards which are tolerant of variations between individual boards. Hopefully that approach will allow modules constructed in complete isolation from each other to have a good chance of fitting together.
Almost all the discussion on this has been taking place on the ScOONs WhatsApp group. As we consolidate our thinking and build test prototypes, we will share the results here.
Ian
Quite so.
Another factor in the equation is that our 'remit' as it were is possibly different to other groups' intentions in producing a modular layout. We see it largely as a means of enhancing the ScOONs/009 Society stand at exhibitions rather than as a modular layout in its own right. This follows the success of including micro and small layouts on our stand at previous exhibitions.
The modules are small, based on Scale Model Scenery BB021 kits, and so the eventual layout could be described as linked dioramas. We can hope for bigger things in the future but if initially we are able to link just a few at an exhibition and have several to call upon at different times we should be able ring the changes between exhibitions.
Some of the techniques used to join larger modules or demountable layouts may not be ideal for these baseboard kits. They are only 225 mm deep and weigh less than 1 kg (without scenery).
Totting up, it would not need that many modules to produce quite a run and so we have an eye on how we might approach that too - but we want to set realistic goals for what we might call our 'pilot scheme'.
A small module size has other attributes. Potentially it could be brought to exhibitions by public transport (I've checked - one or even two can fit in an acceptable sized suitcase) and the hope is that the baseboard kits are small enough to be seen as a relatively quick project, but big enough to take on a good level of detail and be developed as something more if wanted.
I agree with what you are saying, every time we take a layout made from our modules out we need at least an hour before for fettling, a bit more for rehearsing movements including testing out various stock options. We decided some time back that 4 wheel locos are the most resilient over a system like this.
Of course I keep saying that we should al go DCC, but I am a lone voice whistling in the face of a gale :-)
Hi Guys
I came across this on YouTube I'm not sure if this is any help or even beneficial to what you are doing but I like his idea especially with the bridge as the focus of his layout https://youtu.be/jFaK5dlGQUk?si=4uJhScwmoFrnCr7Q
Thanks
Alan
Thanks Alan.
The part that caught my attention was the 180 degree curved end. It is very much counting our chickens before they hatch, but we've talked about an L-shaped end piece before to go round a corner on a stand. A U-turn would bring a fiddleyard or staging behind the backscene.