Greetings to all.
I am new to the society and also to 009 modelling. I just started with a kit of an open wagon. I now want to attach Greenwich couplings, but am a bit at a loss how to do this.
Do I file a slot in the end beam and glue the coupling on the underside of the wagon? Or is it better to bend the coupling shaft around the beam? And is it best to use super glue or do I have to use something else?
BTW, I am Gert, 65 years old and starting modelling again after a 35 year lapse. I used to scratchbuild locos and coaches in H0 with sheet styrene on second hand chassis, but 009 is quite a lot more fiddly.... ;)
Thanks for the help!
Welkom Gert,
I can not assist you in this, just joined in myself. But there are plenty of folk that will jump in to aid.
See you in Valkenburg/Leiden in August.
Welcome both to the society.
Have you got the height gauge for the couplings?
Either Greenwich or my personal favourite the RT Models one. https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_018.htm
I usually glue a strip of lead flashing to the underside of the wagon for extra weight then file a grove in the end of the end beam for the coupling to pass through then glue the tail bit to the lead or a piece of plastic packing making it up to the right height.
Super glue or 5 minute epoxy will be fine.
Welcome to the Society and back to modelliing. I hope you will both find the society and a return to modelling very rewarding.
Similar to Richard's method, I usually glue a piece of lead strip (sold for simulating leaded light windows) to the underside of the wagon body, and separately I build up a platform just behind the buffer beam with styrene sheet, making it level with the bottom of the buffer beam, and the glue the coupling (unbent) on to this. I use impact adhesive to glue it. Height can be adjusted slightly by bending the coupling up or down.
Getting the height right, or at least consistent from wagon to wagon, is critical. You can use a gauge or I use a short piece of rail glued to a wooden block with a woodscrew fixed upright at the end of the rail. Screwing the screw up and down allows the height to be adjusted then I set all the couplings to that height.
Frank
Another recommendation for the RT Models coupling height gauge from me.
As to actually fitting the coupling to the wagon from memory the couplings need to be fitted about 1/2 way up the buffer beams on the 009 Soceity freelance 4-wheel wagons.
Whilst it may be a bit awkward to do on a built wagon I would cut a slot in the buffer beam. This will probably be easier to do with the axles removed from the bearings as you could then use a saw, certainly to make the vertical cuts and if using a jeweller's piercing saw with a fine (6/0) blade it should be possible to 'turn the corner' to link the 2 vertical cuts. Otherwise chopping the area out with a scalpel / modelling knife also works.
I have a feeling that there will still be a step between the bottom of the coupling cut out and the floor. You could 'crank' the coupling, but the metal is relatively thick and not so easy to bend - and you'll only get 'one shot' at it. This being the case it may be easier to add packing - styrene sheet offcuts will do the job and can be fixed with whatever you used to build the wagon, but just make sure you leave space for the wheel sets to go back in.
Once you are in a position to fix the couplings (either packing to create a flat platform of bending to fit the floor / buffer beam step) I would scrape off any coating on the coupling (earlier Greenwich couplings have a black coating whereas later ones are plain brass) so any adhesive used is sticking to the brass, not the coating. It may also be useful to 'key' the brass surface - few scratches with a needle, knife blade tip or whatever comes to hand - and do the same to the plastic you'll be sticking too. For the sticking either 2-part epoxy or cyanoacrylate ('superglue') will do the job, with the latter having the advantage of a rappid setting time (so you don't have to hold it in place for ages), but the danger of sticking yourself to the work all to easily (been there, done that!).
As a final coupling job I would then drill through the etched holes in the coupling's tail and into the wagon floor,then insert short lengths of wire to match, dipping the wire into some superglue before pushing it into the holes. This may be a bit 'belt & braces' but many adhesives, including superglue, are very good at resisting being pulled apart across the joint but less good if the force is along the joint, as is the case with the coupling forces and the wire reincorces the joint. I also use 2 wires so that should the coupling come adrift it cant pivot out of alignment and as an added precaution rather than cutting any wire protruding underneath off flush I'll bend it over so that should the coupling come loose it can't drop off.
Once the couplings are fixed adding a small amount of weight will help - this can be lead strip from various sources (if there isn't any roofing work going on locally to scrounge an off-cut of flashing try shops selling aquarium fish as thin lead strips are used to anchor plants in fishtanks), lead or steel shot (the latter sold as 'liquid gravity') or anything with a high density - tungsten 'putty' sold in fishing tackle shops, gold or depleted uranium are the more 'exotic' materials!
Hope that helps,
Julien Webb
Dear Richard, Engerth, Frank and Julien,
Thanks for your help. I hadn't thought abt the lead, thats a good one because the society kits are very light.
I have the gauge and will use it to set the uniform height with all my rolling stock.
The tip of extra fastening the couplings with some wire ends I will use also.
Great forum indeed!! With all the help its a veritable WIKI009!!
Gert
Ed dank voor het welkom.
I will try to visit the Valkenburg smalspoor event and meet the dutch gang!!
Gert
See you there,
BTW ( on that other forum ) https://ngrm-online.com/index.php?/forums/topic/23008-theredones-random-ramblings/page/34/ there is a quite complete explanation of the Greenwich. I have to order a pack in a few weeks, along with some carts.
Thanks for the link Ed.
BTW, what is the KIJL line???
The ' Keil lijn ' is the Dutchification of the Kyle of Lochash to Inverness line.
My private pun is it confuses the Anglofiles, but the way we Dutch say it, it is exactly the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_of_Lochalsh_line
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/scotland-by-rail/great-scenic-rail-journeys/kyle-line-lochalsh-inverness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtB_ESG2dwc
Plan is 009 part of the scenery, and make a caricature ( read downsized ) of this line.
https://www.shapeways.com/product/JEWMZPR3F/oo9-mini-deltic?optionId=139442727&li=shops as an idea on the rolling stock, Dave has a couple of other choices for which I am saving up.
Grtz Ed
All of the above :)
I have a short length of track (approx 50cm) glued to a piece of wood which I use for setting up wagons and rolling stock.
At one end I have block of wood packed up to exactly the right height for a Peco wagon coupling to just slide over. This one I use to adjust the height of Greenwich couplings.
At the other end I have another block with a Greenwich coupling glued on it so I check that it will work.
Once this is done I lift one end up by the height of another block to make sure that the wagon can move easily. If not I can try to free up the bearings, or as mentioned above add weight. I also use "window lead" but for closed wagons I tend to pour in some PVA glue and add sand. It is cheaper, not visible, and can't come off, but it is more difficult to adjust the weight and the centre of gravity is going to be a bit higher.
Hi Stephen,
that is a nice tip! Thanks
Hello Ed,
I know that line. I have a nice book on it in my possession: "The Skye Railway" by John Thomas, David&Charles 1977
From your track plan I take it you are modelling Kyle of Lochalsh in late LMS /BR days?? Because in early LMS days the track plan was more complex, with a lot of sidings and even wagon turntables.
If you are interested I can make a scan for you.
Hi Gert,
Got the book(s) and a few more are on the order-list. So thanks for the offer, but I got it.
Yes, the trackplan was much larger, including a small depot. The plan is not prototypical, but indeed late LMS/BR, mainly diesel.
The misses and I spend a week in the signalbox couple of years back. Hope to be back in Skye next year, and add a visit to Harris & Lewis as well.
Quote from: JulienW on March 03, 2023, 09:35
Another recommendation for the RT Models coupling height gauge from me.
i really must see about getting one of these... I have the etched brass Greenwich one, but I find it a bit tricky to use - you really need three hands....
Hi all
I've just purchased four of the Soc RNAD vans which come without buffers, couplings and safety side chains. I have tried to seek out pictures of the real thing without success. I would like to use Grenage couplings but don't know if straight or cranked is the way to go. Also the chain needed for the side couplings, could you name a supplier and what about buffers?
Graham
Quote from: 5113GBAK on October 14, 2024, 12:44Hi all
I've just purchased four of the Soc RNAD vans which come without buffers, couplings and safety side chains. I have tried to seek out pictures of the real thing without success. I would like to use Grenage couplings but don't know if straight or cranked is the way to go. Also the chain needed for the side couplings, could you name a supplier and what about buffers?
Graham
There are a selection of photos on the L&B web site.
https://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/news/view/ex-rnad-box-van-arrives-at-woody-bay (https://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/news/view/ex-rnad-box-van-arrives-at-woody-bay)
(https://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/uploads/news/box_van_1-image%28500x400-crop-autorotate%29.jpg)
The Greenwich coupling serves as a central buffer.
Possibly the best source of fine chain is a model boat supplier such as Cornwall Model Boats.
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=chain&PR=-1&TB=O&ACTION=&ACTION=Go%21 (https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=chain&PR=-1&TB=O&ACTION=&ACTION=Go%21)
Quote from: 5113GBAK on October 14, 2024, 12:44Hi all
I've just purchased four of the Soc RNAD vans which come without buffers, couplings and safety side chains. I have tried to seek out pictures of the real thing without success. I would like to use Grenage couplings but don't know if straight or cranked is the way to go. Also the chain needed for the side couplings, could you name a supplier and what about buffers?
Graham
First off rather than 'straight' or 'cranked' as far as I am aware the Greenwich couplings come in 3 'flavours' - the standard one (CPL 1), the 'wide loop' one (CPL 1w) if you have very tight curves / long overhang on the stock, and the one to fit in an NEM pocket (CPL 3).
All of the couplings come as a flat brass etch and will need assembly (but no soldering is needed), and will act as both coupling and central buffer much like the 'chopper' couplings on the real thing. Therefore there is no need of a separate buffer (unlike with standard gauge stock).
You could add the safety chains, but in 1:76 scale these really are tiny - probably smaller than the chains used to represent standard gauge 3 link couplings - and with Greenwich couplings there's no need to add them other than as non-working cosmetic items. In that case I'd suggest using some loosely twisted (very) fine wire - something soft like 5 amp fuse wire if you can get it - to get the look of the hanging chains.
So, as you should only need to buy couplings I'll move on to those.
Personally for these kits I wouldn't bother with the NEM type (CPL 3) as to use them would mean having to buy pockets to stick on to the vans which seems an unnecessary expense (I use them to convert ready to run stock that already have the pockets though).
The CPL 1/ CPL 1w once made have a 'straight' shank (the end opposite the buffer), and once you have fixed them in place the idea is to bend the brass shank up or down to get the coupling to the correct height. The recommendation for 009 is a mounting height 5.5 mm above the rail head.
That's going to need you be able to measure the height, but some form of jig to set this makes life a lot easier.
There's a Greenwich etched gauge (GAG 1) that sets the coupling height for 009 (and OOn3) as well as a depth gauge for setting the operating magnets. It's good, but being a flat etch needs to be set vertically to accurately set the coupling height and I find it a bit awkward to use. As an alternative (and one I recommend) there is the RT Models gauge (NGWC010) with is a cast resin block that sits on top of the rail with a strip on the base to locate it between the rails. One end face has a straight edge to mark the height on the wagon buffer beam and the other peg on it for checking the action of the coupling once fitted. Finally there is a DIY version made by fixing a short length of track to a piece of wood then fixing a screw into the wood between the rails at one end. By using a screw with a flat top (like a 'countersunk head' screw) and only screwing it in until the top of the head is 5.5 mm above the top of the rail a very effective jig results.
For reliability in use ultimately the actual height is less important than having the couplings of ALL of your stock AT THE SAME HEIGHT. The advantage of using either the Greenwich or RT Models gauge is that most other 009 modellers are using the same gauge, so if your stock goes visiting other layouts the couplings will work, and likewise stock visiting your layout will also couple up to yours.
As to suppliers of Greenwich couplings there's Dundas Models (https://dundasmodels.co.uk/webstore/index.php/store-categories/category/505-greenwich-couplings-accessories) who seem to have everything in stock, and Light Railway Stores (https://www.lightrailwaystores.co.uk/collections/gdngrs) (who currently show then as out of stock)
It might also be worth looking at the links on the Greenwich Couplings website (https://www.gdngrs.com/couplings/).
Hope that helps...
Julian
Thank you for your input, lastly how are the couplings fastened to the bottom of the van?
Graham
I realise that was something I missed Graham, (sorry) so I'll précis the way I do it.
The first step is to work out where on the wagon the coupling needs to be mounted as often the buffer beam needs to be cut away for the shank (where the straight edge on the RT block gauge comes in very useful) and some packing needed on the underside of the floor. For packing I use offcuts of plastic card sheets to bring the level to the same as that of the cut out stuck on with a solvent adhesive (the same stuff as I use for building the plastic kits).
It is also possible to bend the shank to raise or lower the coupling, even to the extent of bending it around the buffer beam, but the metal is not that thin so does not bend easily, and you'll only really get one chance to get it right as it's difficult to bend the metal back to try again without it breaking (due to stress fracture).
The shank on the CPL 1 has a number of small holes (I think it's 3 but I can't recall exactly) etched through. This means that once I've stuck them in place - cyanoacrylate (super glue) will be fine but make sure you have the coupling parallel to the rails - I can drill through 2 of the holes into the floor and insert a short bit of wire, bend it over and add another bit of super glue to hold it in place, or make a 'staple' that fits through both drilled holes.
Perhaps something about how far away from the end of the wagon the buffer needs to be added here. There's no hard and fast rule, but it needs to be far enough out for the loop to rise up as far as possible as a minimum, but not so far out that there isn't enough shank to stick to the floor (a disadvantage of bending the shank is that it effectively makes it shorter which can make fixing harder).
Superglue is not very strong in a 'shear' direction (along the line of the joint) which is what the coupling will be subjected to in use. The wire pins reinforce the joint to counter this, using 2 prevents the coupling 'pivoting' should the main joint give way, and by bending them over it stops the coupling dropping off.
A final tip to add about making the couplings in the first place is to make sure that the pivot for the loop is free running. The first step is to run a small cutting broach through the pivot holes to remove any sharp edges left from the etching process, but you could also do this with a fine drill bit held in a pin vice (not in a dremel!) with the drill a smidgen larger than the wire you'll be making the pivot pin from. You may also need to adjust the way the 'ears' that make the pivots have been bent down (often those on the coupling body need a little squash to fit nicely within those on the loop).
The aim is to have it so that when you rotate the coupling from horizontal to vertical (buffer pointing upwards) the loop flops over backwards, and also drops back onto the body of the coupling when you return it to the horizontal. Once you have that you can bend over the ends of the wire pin to fix it in place and move on to fitting the coupling to the wagon.
Tramfabriek make some couplings with extra long shanks (that are compatible with Greenwich by the look of them)
Here https://tramfabriek.nl/couplings.html (https://tramfabriek.nl/couplings.html)