HI, I have recieved from an Estate this Backwoods kit, unfinished. It is missing instructions, parts list etc. I have no idea how to attach the two motor units to the main chassis. Maybe someone has already finished this kit and can advise? Any suggestions welcome. This is my first posting(http://[img][img][img][img][img][img][img][img])[/img][/img][/img][/img][/img][/img][/img][/img]
Looking at the photo, they are definitely the wrong motor units for a Backwoods kit and looks more like a whitemetal kit
The chassis/motor units look familiar. Could they be N-drive (reversed motor option)?
Hello Daniel, and welcome to the 009 Society forum.
It is a little difficult to tell from the photographs but as with the other posters on this thread I'm not convinced that you have a Backwoods Miniatures K1 Garratt kit, or at least not a whole one.
The chassis units look very much like those sold by N-Drive Productions (https://www.n-driveproductions.com/), but made a few years ago before Neville Kent swapped from Mashima motors to his own sourced ones (Mashima having ceased motor production). As GreameD suggests these have been specially ordered with the motor and cylinder block at the same end of the chassis. Whilst this would not be correct for K1 (and sister K2), where the cylinders are on the inner ends of the power unit (as per the box artwork), using the 'special order' chassis you have would more accurately reflect typical Garratt practice where the cylinders are at the outer ends of the power units (under the tanks/bunker).
As the body has been painted it's hard to tell what it has been made from and this also clouds it's identity...
The Backwoods kit is made up of brass etches, and originally would have been supplied with wheels, gears and motors to make the chassis units as well as the body - there is a documented build of this kit here (https://philmortimer.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/k1-already-for-departure/) that helps illustrate what I mean.
There is also an older cast white metal kit, made by Golden Arrow Models (http://www.goldenarrow.me.uk/products.htm#narrow) which still available (to the best of my knowledge). It was originally designed to use a pair of the Ibertren 0-4-0 chassis (which in their standard format would place the cylinders in the correct place for K1 and K2 on the inner ends of the power units) but these chassis have been out of production for some time now, and the N-drive chassis you have are a much better chassis (in my opinion) than the Ibertren ones.
So what you have is either a Golden Arrow white metal body or a Backwoods etched brass body that someone appears to have done a fairly good job of building.
You also have a pair of N-Drive chassis that should run very well indeed, but these have their cylinders in the wrong place for a K1 replica but correct to make a freelance 4-coupled Garratt. In any event it should be possible to make a very nice locomotive, but without a confirmed identification of the body it's a little difficult to give advice as to the best way to proceed with your build.
I hope that helps.
Yes, they look similar to this one. The are available* in different wheelbases and it looks as if part of the main moulding has had its length trimmed.
(https://www.n-driveproductions.com/reverse%20cylinder%20swb%202.jpg)
* there can be a long wait as Neville produces in small batches when he is able.
Thanks to all who send in information. Upon closer inspection, the superstructure is brass.
and another picture
That is a helpful update Daniel.
So with the brass upper works that has to have been built from the Backwoods etches. I suspect that the N-Drive chassis are a replacement for a failed attempt at building the Backwoods power bogies, especially as from memory the usual technique suggested is to solder the brass cranks on to the steel axles which makes it far to easy to melt the plastic wheel centres that are just alongside them on the axle. It's a bit of a knack to get this bit right, it is all to east to get it wrong, and getting it wrong means a new set of wheels are needed, which as Backwoods kits have been out of production for some time is now somewhat difficult.
Looking at the white metal castings in the most recent photo it looks like you have got some couplings (the pair of D shaped things with the log tails and a peg sticking upwards), with the set of 4 parts on their left possibly being sand boxes. The other parts might be some form of pivot castings, but I'm not convinced as I'd have thought these would not have been cast in white metal - I'd be wanting to use something brass (nut and bolt for example) which would be stronger. Even if these are the pivot parts from the Backwoods kit they may not be any use when it comes to fitting them to the N-Drive chassis.
Anyhow, whoever had this before you seems to have made a good job of the body and had probably made a good choice in selecting the N-drive chassis to power the body (rather than having it sat unloved in a box). The problem is that when it comes to working out how to put these parts together there are no instructions unless the previous owner made some notes before they passed away, which is unlikely as if it was me I'd probably be making it up as I went along.
As to how to proceed that's going to be down to you.
If you specifically wanted a model of the Tasmanian K1 / K2 garratts what you have at the moment is not going to get you there, mainly because the cylinders on the chassis are not in correct place (and the original was a compound so the cylinders at one end are bigger than at the other). In that respect you may be better off selling what you have (through the 009 Society sales for example) and putting the funds towards something that will be much nearer K1 - be that the Golden Arrow white metal kit along with a pair of N-drive chassis with the cylinders in the correct place (and it may be possible to order these with extended axles for outside frames like K1), or maybe even a Backwoods Miniatures kit - if you can find one!
If you are happy with a 'what if' locomotive - maybe the Tasmanian line (North East Dundas Tramway) went back to Beyer Peacock who supplied a 3rd garratt which was more like the Darjeeling & Himalaya loco (cylinders at the outer ends and not compound) as "K3" - then it looks like the main hurdle to overcome is the pivoting system. The centre point for the pivot needs to be within the wheelbase of the powered chassis, and on the Darjeeling loco it looks to be about half the wheel diameter within the wheelbase (so the pivot is in line with the farthest outside edge of the innermost wheel working from the middle of the loco out to the ends). As the chassis will have the gear train running along the length of them the pivot will need to be mounted on top of the chassis rather than through them, and it's probably worth designing in a way to be able access the pivot to take the power bogies off the loco.
To my mind that suggests a plate fixed on top of the chassis with a bolt or screw through it sticking upwards. I'd make the plate from thin brass sheet and drill the hole for the bolt then cut a tread in the hole - also called 'tapping' - so that it is easier to avoid it working loose later on, but I'm not sure how to attach this to the top of the chassis. I suspect a mechanical fixing (screws and the like) would be better than adhesives, but that will take some design work given the chassis you have and if that isn't possible then you'll need something like a 2 part epoxy to give you the strength needed (cyanoacrylates will probably fail under the shear stresses involved).
You'll also need corresponding plates fixed to the boiler unit with a hole drilled to allow the bolt to slide in and out (a 'clearance' hole) - to my mind the space between the projections at either end look to be about the right place. As with the pivots on the power units a mechanical fixing to the body would be better than sticking them on, though this (drilling and tapping for small screws) may be easier as you have got the brass superstructure to fix to (you could scrape the paint away and try soldering them on place). It's then just a case of adding a couple of retaining nuts over the pivot bolts that should be accessible via the cut outs at the inner ends of the tank units, and you should have a nice 'bendy engine' that moves just like a Garratt should, though the system might need a little thought to get one end to rock to allow for any track irregularity rather than just pivot in a flat plain (maybe a slight dome shape to the pivot plate at one end or a domed washer?).
The other thought with the pivots would be to use dressmaking press studs (also known as sew on snap fasteners) as these will allow for some 'rocking', but they will probably be harder to fit and sometimes the steel springs within them can be too strong to allow sufficient flexibility.
I hope that the above is of some help, though I freely admit it's less a set of instructions and more my thoughts on how I'd approach the problems and I'm sure that others may well have alternative (and possibly better) suggestions as to how you might proceed.
Wow, that is quit some information, much appriciated and a lot of thoughts went to it. Wonderful to have a forum where such answers can be gotten.
Thanks to all who forwarded information, I now will think about how to proceed.