OK - confession - first time here. 40 years a go I had a go at 009 but didn't get very far. So, second attempt. I figured that DCC was the way to go if I could fit the chips into the tiny locos. As a test, I fitted a CM3 Models LaisDcc chip to a Kato 110 and rigged up a simple test track. The controller is a Hornby Select bought from eBay. It does work, but I can't run the Kato slowly. There is a video here: https://vimeo.com/714458515. The speed it starts off is the slowest it will run so not realistic! I've adjusted the acceleration and deceleration but no change. Any ideas? I accept that my combination of bits may not be optimal. Thanks.
RS
Can't watch the video as it says I have to log in .However problem may be your controller as every chassis I
have is very slow running on DC with my controller
Thanks, Alan - try it now - I have tweaked the Vimeo settings. And did you mean 'DCC', rather than 'DC'? What controller do you use?
As Alan suggests, the chassis will run slowly, out of the box, with a DC controller which suggests it is a DCC decoder setup issue. I've no issue running them using a Gaugemaster Combi or off 'pure DC' from a bench power supply.
You mention changing the acceleration and braking, but have you tried altering the minimum and maximum voltage setting CVs?
I think you will find that as the Hornby Select is designed for sometimes quite large and heavy OO/HO locomotives with traditional motors, the default settings will be far too high for a little light 9mm gauge power unit with a coreless motor. The same may apply to the decoder.
Knock the minimum voltage down as far as it will go and see if it runs slowly then. Probably lower the maximum voltage too. Kato recommend their products should not need more than 9 volts flat out and 1 or 2 to start while OO/HO usually uses 12 volts and may not start on less than 6!
Although a number of people report fitting DCC to the chassis, it DOES say on the packaging that it is not for DCC.
Quote from: hughn on May 27, 2022, 17:32
Although a number of people report fitting DCC to the chassis, it DOES say on the packaging that it is not for DCC.
That is not the whole of what it says on the back of the Kato 11-110 blister pack card. It says:
"*DO NOT operate this locomotive on DCC #00 (analog address) operation. It will cause serious damage to the locomotive and will void the warrantee."
This is rather different and will probably apply to any coreless motor.
DCC address 00 is a sort of bodge to allow one locomotive, not fitted with a decoder, to run on a DCC layout. It can be thought of as sort of the 'worst type' of PWM controller for motor heating. A DCC decoder uses PWM, but at a much higher frequency. Older decoders might not be suitable, possibly not the cheapest and nastiest of new ones, but sources claim that all modern ones should be suitable.
https://www.dccconcepts.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/3-Ten-Reasons-To-Go-DCC-2014rv-A1.pdf (https://www.dccconcepts.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/3-Ten-Reasons-To-Go-DCC-2014rv-A1.pdf)
https://www.dccconceptsforum.com/post/best-decoders-for-coreless-motors-11373158 (https://www.dccconceptsforum.com/post/best-decoders-for-coreless-motors-11373158)
Quote from: Roger Shufflebottom on May 27, 2022, 14:33
OK - confession - first time here. 40 years a go I had a go at 009 but didn't get very far. So, second attempt. I figured that DCC was the way to go if I could fit the chips into the tiny locos. As a test, I fitted a CM3 Models LaisDcc chip to a Kato 110 and rigged up a simple test track. The controller is a Hornby Select bought from eBay. It does work, but I can't run the Kato slowly. There is a video here: https://vimeo.com/714458515. The speed it starts off is the slowest it will run so not realistic! I've adjusted the acceleration and deceleration but no change. Any ideas? I accept that my combination of bits may not be optimal. Thanks.
RS
The new Kato chassis have a small cordless type motor. These need very little current to get them going, and looking at the Tramfabrike (that spelling may be wrong) website who sell a range of small cordless motors he has some notes about setting up DCC decoders for his motors and these may be applicable to the similar motors in the new Kato chassis.
That being said I've not heard good things about the Lias decoders (the advice I got about them amounted to 'cheap as chips, but you get what you pay for!') and whilst it may not be the Select I've not heard good things about the Hornby DCC (something like it was putting out too much voltage compared to the NMRA standards).
So my feeling is that the settings on the decoder need to be optimised for the cordless motor in the chassis, but that with the decoder you have this may not be possible and the controller may not be helping the issue...
Thanks , everyone, for all the suggestions. I will look into changing the voltage settings on the Select. If no good, I'll look for a different controller.
Looking into this further, I am going to have to get my Hornby Select firmware upgraded before I can do more than simply assign numbers to locos and change the acceleration and deceleration. £15.00 apparently but cheaper than a new controller. I will report back.
Iain Morrison wrote: My advice would be firstly to buy a decoder other than Lais which provides better motor control. Then you need to apply the appropriate settings for a coreless motor and Sven has very kindly put these up for everyone to use, and they work very well.
Being new to this, I hadn't realised that Lais decoders were not well thought of. On another forum, I read that they'd hacked the code from some other device :-(. I have three of them so I'll see how it goes. I've now got my Select controller upgraded by Hornby so the next thing is to try to modify the CV values. I'll check out Sven's settings (having tracked them down!).
So I have sold the Hornby Select controller and bought a Roco Z21. I still get the same speed problem with the Kato chassis and a Lais decoder. I'll look at the settings again and I have bought a Zimo MX617R decoder which I'll fit to another loco and see how that works.