Hi - I am after some advice.
I am building my first layout for over 30 years and am still using the controller I used way back then - an H&M Minipack with a simple high/Low resistance switch.
Am I likely to get better slow running from a newer unit e.g. a Gaugemaster Analogue ?
Also could someone explain in VERY simple terms the difference between a "normal" controller and one with "inertia" or "feedback"
Thanks
For inertia, I've no idea - I guess it means a delay between changing the speed on the controller and the motor reaching the new speed.
Feedback usually means 'pwm' (pulse width modulation) - when the pulses are "on" the voltage is higher than the low steady voltage of a conventional controller. On things with lights this can be beneficial (lights come on at a lower speed than before), but it can also overheat motors. The selling point of "steady speed with a loaded train on a gradient' isn't usually relevant to us here.
In the end, I got a feedback controller for my multigauge (OO, HOm, 009/HOe) running-in loop. My general opinion of British N-gauge locos is poor, so I wasn't surprised that one already problematic old chassis gave up its smoke. Much of what I've got works well on pwm, but some of the _old_ things I've got won't be let near that controller. For OO it's brilliant, but that's a different game.
If slow running is extremely important, and you have good quality locos, feedback probably does help a bit (still need to keep the track clean).
ĸen
Thanks for the info Ken - think I will steer clear of the feedback jobbie..
I don't agree with everything Ken has said above in the context "modern chassis = feedback controller good", "old chassis = feedback controller bad". From my own limited experience it appears to me that there are performance variances between chassis irrespective of their age.
I have a Roger Murray handheld controller (pulse) and a Gaugemaster HH hand held feedback (the one in the black casing) and also have a Gaugemaster model D which supplies power for either of the above plus twin non-feedback electronic controllers. For standby I also have a very old Fleischman controller - variable voltage system rather than variable resistance I think
Example findings are: The Gaugemaster D is definitely superior to the old trainset controller but with most chassis slow speed control and ability for the chassis to start and stop smoothly at very slow speeds is noticeably better when using the feedback/pulse handhelds - both of which perform equally well. I would mention that in case anybody advises you to get a Kent Panel Controller, which are generally a "preferred standard" for exhibition layouts (it's the yellow coloured handheld that you will see many exhibition layout operators using), then sorry to disappoint but they ceased trading a couple of years ago when the proprietor passed away. The main advantage that the KPC carried over other similar types was that the feedback was switchable.
OLD Minitrix 2-6-2 chassis definitely respond better under a feedback controller as do Minitrix 0-6-0 "dock tank", Ibertren 0-4-0 and Arnold 0-6-0 - all very vintage chassis. However I am reliably informed by the owner of a very well known 009 exhibition layout currently on the circuit that the newer outside frame Grafar/Bachmann 08 diesel chassis does not appear to like feedback controllers at all - which seems to be the exact opposite of Ken's statements.
From my own observations and tests, I have found that generally, short end to end type layouts where shunting etc is a feature give better performances with slow speed running under a feedback controller (but note: "generally"), but continuous run layouts where trains may be running for several minutes around the circuit at a time would probably be better served with a non-feedback control.
Other more experienced layout operators may be able to contribute much more accurate and less general findings than I can.
Finally from me, a modern no-nonsense, fairly economical and apparently reliable non-feedback controller that gives good performance is the Gaugemaster Combi. The Society sales stand test track uses one of these and probably a greater variety of different chassis are tested on that little track than any other. I also noticed that Rod Allcock is using one of these on his new Corris layout, and that does feature very slow running of small locos - which were working perfectly when I saw the layout at Exeter a couple of weeks back.
As we are all of a single purpose on this forum I think this may be a good thread to represent as many views as possible of as many different types of controller as possible (preferably those that are currently available) Any more contributions?
Hope this helps
Mick
Hi
I'll add my vote for the Gaugemaster Combi. I've had several gaugemasters over the years and all have been great. I did have one with 'inertia' but it just made starting and stopping unpredictable on a small layout.
The other good thing about gaugemaster is that they operate a lifetime gaurantee.
John
I don't think you can generalise about feedback controllers, different types have different characteristics.
I have an old ECM handheld type which works well with most motors but can cause severe overheating on some, particularly small, motors, to the extent that I do not use it with my 009 stock.
I recently bought, on recommendation, a Fidelity controller from New Zealand specifically because it was a feedback type stated to be designed to eliminate the problem of motor heating. Experience so far totally bears this out, running small motors at low speed for long periods without any sign of heating.
The benefit of feedback control is difficult to quantify. It can have a very beneficial effect on slow running of some locos and no noticeable effect at all on others. On a very few the effect seems to be detrimental - a two motor bogie diesel I have doesn't seem to like it at all (perhaps not surprisingly).
I agree that it is certainly not as simple as old chassis designs = bad new chassis designs = good
I would assume that any current controller advertised as suitable for N gauge would be suited to 009 use.
In my experience some locos do not like some feedback controllers, I have some KPC feedback units and I have had problems with overheating motors in Arnold 0-6-0
I also have a Fidelity controller from NZ and am very pleased with it.It can also be adjusted by the owner which I think is a useful function.
Alan
Hello
I have just joined the 009 society and although not strictly modeling in 4mm scale I will be building some 6mm locomotives on n gauge chassis. I haven't modeled in this scale for over 15 years and although I am familiar with 00 gauge I feel my outdated controller maybe unsuitable for 009/n gauge.
I have read with interest the information on this topic and wondered whether I can quiz you all a little further. I will not be chipping my chassis for dcc but I will be using new and used old graham farish units. Would the gaugemaster controller be worth investing in or is there something more suitable for my needs.
Any advice would be appreciated
Kind regards
Tim
We had several gaugemaster panel mounted controllers powered from gaugemaster transformers in use on our exhibition layouts back in the 1980