We had the first Electronics SIG Zoom call on Wednesday 24th November with three in attendance.
Many thanks to Andrew for setting up this Section on the forum. My apologies for the delay in posting. I'm just back online following storm Arwen.
We began with introductions, though as the three of us were already acquainted it was more a formality. We related our particular interests in electronics as applied to 009 and discussed what form an Electronics SIG might take. To this end there were many suggestions of what the SIG might cover, but its eventual form will depend very much on what the interests of participants are.
We decided to hold another Zoom call in the New Year in the hope of attracting more participants by then. If you are interested, please make contact here or by PM to me. The dates for the next meeting will be posted here and also circulated amongst members who have registered an interest.
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One of the things discussed was whether the SIG should be purely a way sharing information within the group, say relating to current projects, ideas, problems and so on, or whether a SIG might have a role within the Society in general. It would be presumptuous to say SIG members considered themselves 'experts' in the field, but the SIG format might be a way of accumulating expertise as a resource for the Society perhaps?
Regarding topics, the three of us expressed an interest in DC (i.e. 'analogue') control though DCC was also mentioned. I understand a separate DCC SIG is being formed. Automation and train detection, including track circuiting was talked about as were general electronic 'scenic' effects. We spent some time throwing out ideas of what might be included, if there was interest. These, and a few more that have occurred to me since are listed below. They are just ideas and in no way a declaration of what the Electronics SIG will or should encompass.
Suggestions for scope or remit:
• Sharing circuits and knowledge within SIG (and/or)
• General resource for Society?
Suggestions for areas of interest:
• DC controllers
• DCC (unless a separate group) *** Separate Group being created
• Turnout actuator control (e.g., CDU, servo)
• Layout wiring
• Automatic control
• Sensing including track circuiting and spot detection
• Lighting, lighting effects
• Animations and novelties
• Components and circuits (including novel devices and applications)
• Motor characteristics (e.g., allied to DC control)
• Video including on-train cameras
Deliverables/Output:
• Meeting programme, e.g. Zoom and meeting reports
• Forum section content (request separate sections for SIGs) **** DONE ****
• Individual projects and reports thereof
• Publications (009 News, web content, ...)
Hello Graeme
I see from Julian's general introduction to SIG's that a Radio Control SIG has the status of "Active", but don't see any other reference to it yet ?
I'm quite keen to try out a small R/C test track in the garden this year. I was just wondering if it would come under the "Electronics" SIG in the meantime ?
Best regards,
Dave
Hello Dave,
Not all the SIGs report here, but if you would like me to pass on your details to Keith Hicks who is the moderator of the RC SIG, I will happily do so. Please let me know.
Julian
Thanks Julian,
Yes, I would be happy for you to forward my details to the RC SIG Group.
Cheers for now,
Dave
Hello Dave,
Many thanks for the interest. It might be better to post in the General SIG section in the absence of a Radio Control SIG one. If there was one I have some questions to put there too!
(I have an interest in radio control as I fly model planes but as far as the RC SIG is concerned I've just taken part as an interested beginner as I don't have any RC trains - yet.)
Quote from: Dave Cooper on February 28, 2022, 11:59
Hello Graeme
I see from Julian's general introduction to SIG's that a Radio Control SIG has the status of "Active", but don't see any other reference to it yet ?
I'm quite keen to try out a small R/C test track in the garden this year. I was just wondering if it would come under the "Electronics" SIG in the meantime ?
Best regards,
Dave
Hi Graeme
Ok I'll do that.
I have RC gliders (35 MHz) and power and quadcopter aircraft (2.4 GHz), and a boat (27 MHz).
I was planning to use a spare 27 MHz set for the train test track. I also am a beginner with Arduino, so, may have to jump around the SIG's a bit ! (My C /C++ is quite rusty I'm afraid....). The loco /tender /wagon combo may have to be 'O' gauge though to get a useful battery on-board. I guess this means O-16.5 maybe ?
Cheers for now,
Dave
That sounds good Dave. I am a bit betwixt and between too. There are separate DCC, Radio Control and Electronics SIGs though some topics cross the boundaries. Particularly I imagine where a bit of home-brewing of kit is involved.
Arduino is something I use too and others in the SIG use similar microcontrollers - e.g. PICAXE and bare-metal PIC programming in C.
Regarding 27 MHz radio control and 009 you might find it a bit of a struggle, though with larger gauges, including live steam, it should be dead easy. The issue may be finding receivers small enough and you may have to be inventive regarding the antenna. I would say that a possible source of donor receiver might be an old RC car toy but I think newer ones are some variety of 2.4 GHz.
Another thing with radio control is if you plan to expand beyond one locomotive a means of switching between them is required - or have multiple transmitters or swap crystals if using older generation RC gear. The way it is done currently is all loco receivers (2.4 GHz) are bound to the same transmitters and a signal on one of the spare channels is used to send different values that correspond to different locos - a system known as Selecta, at least by one of the manufacturers, Deltang, who are probably the market leaders.
http://www.deltang.co.uk/rx6x-selecta.htm (http://www.deltang.co.uk/rx6x-selecta.htm)
The receivers are Spektrum (or compatible) DSM2 protocol.
Phil Partridge of this ilk runs RC Trains and will be able to help you.
https://www.rctrains.co.uk/ (https://www.rctrains.co.uk/)
Oops - I appear to have turned this into an RC SIG. Perhaps it is better after all to continue here for the time being and I'm sure our webmaster would move the posts to another section if needed.
Thanks for the links Graeme,
I recently acquired a modified 35MHz Tx with a 2.4GHz module and a free box of tiny Rx's (club auction). I think for a single loco /single track test this should be Ok. I'm planning on 'towing' a dedicated van for the battery.
The Arduino is an "Elegoo" R3 Uno (Super starter kit). I'll have a play with this as soon as I can access the 'C' code library (or, does one download it ?). Ideally, I'd like to use it for inertia /braking tests on the loco...
Talking of loco's, I'm looking for a cheap test model. May have to be 'O' gauge (O-16.5 perhaps), as I already have track and some rolling stock (mix of OO and O).
The Arduino CD instructions are a bit "Chinese" (it's probably a Clone !), so, any help with getting started would be great. I'm currently using a laptop with Windows 7 Professional installed.
Cheers for now,
Dave
That looks like a good starter kit Dave, and Elegoo have a decent reputation, judging from their 3D printers. I take it it is like this starter kit?
https://www.elegoo.com/products/elegoo-uno-project-super-starter-kit (https://www.elegoo.com/products/elegoo-uno-project-super-starter-kit)
As it is a standard UNO clone (the design is open source so decent clones are generally as good as the Arduino/Genuino originals) it should work directly with the Arduino IDE (Interactive Development Environment) available from the official web site.
https://www.arduino.cc/en/software (https://www.arduino.cc/en/software)
I would ignore the 'work in progress' Version 2 and download the stable version (currently 1.8.19). There is also the cloud-based version which is an option with a good broadband connection and if there is limited memory and computing power at the user's end, otherwise I'm not sure it offers much advantage. There are also plenty of built-in programming examples in the IDE and documentation on the site. There are also plenty of YouTube videos for Arduino tutorials, but it can take a bit of work to weed out the less satisfactory ones.
An inexpensive OO/O-16.5 gauge loco sounds like a good test subject to avoid having to go directly to miniaturisation for 009. Possibly something like the ubiquitous Hornby 'Smokey Joe' or whatever the current starter loco is.
Hi, I didn't realize that there was a separate DCC sig, who is the contact please?
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on March 02, 2022, 14:21
Hi, I didn't realize that there was a separate DCC sig, who is the contact please?
Iain Morrison is the contact.
I'd best not post his email here, but if you've received a Zoom link from him then you will have it as he organized the meetings.
This should be a link to his profile:
https://www.009society.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2699 (https://www.009society.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2699)
There is also a DCC SIG Section on the forum!
Quote from: GraemeD on March 02, 2022, 11:50
That looks like a good starter kit Dave, and Elegoo have a decent reputation, judging from their 3D printers. I take it it is like this starter kit?
https://www.elegoo.com/products/elegoo-uno-project-super-starter-kit (https://www.elegoo.com/products/elegoo-uno-project-super-starter-kit)
As it is a standard UNO clone (the design is open source so decent clones are generally as good as the Arduino/Genuino originals) it should work directly with the Arduino IDE (Interactive Development Environment) available from the official web site.
https://www.arduino.cc/en/software (https://www.arduino.cc/en/software)
I would ignore the 'work in progress' Version 2 and download the stable version (currently 1.8.19). There is also the cloud-based version which is an option with a good broadband connection and if there is limited memory and computing power at the user's end, otherwise I'm not sure it offers much advantage. There are also plenty of built-in programming examples in the IDE and documentation on the site. There are also plenty of YouTube videos for Arduino tutorials, but it can take a bit of work to weed out the less satisfactory ones.
An inexpensive OO/O-16.5 gauge loco sounds like a good test subject to avoid having to go directly to miniaturisation for 009. Possibly something like the ubiquitous Hornby 'Smokey Joe' or whatever the current starter loco is.
Hi Graeme,
Yes, that kit looks very similar to mine. I'll have a look at the IDE /version as per your suggestion. Funnily enough, I acquired a 'Smokey Joe' just a few years ago - I'd say it's my best running engine so far !
Presumably, once in the IDE, I just download the bits I want rather than the whole lot ? That is, a specific block of 'C' code I suppose...
Dave
Quote from: Dave Cooper on March 02, 2022, 19:46
Presumably, once in the IDE, I just download the bits I want rather than the whole lot ? That is, a specific block of 'C' code I suppose...
If I understand you correctly, then yes. The IDE itself is big, but individual Arduino C programs or 'Sketches' as they are styled are small pieces of code, written by the user (or found in the examples programs) which are compiled in the IDE by its C compiler. The resulting machine code is transferred automatically from the PC over the USB cable by a small permanent program residing on the Arduino called the Bootloader. It all happens transparently to the user once the options in the IDE for the version of the Arduino board and the USB port are selected by the user.
There are a good many online tutorials and YouTube videos available once you separate out the chaff. e.g.
https://www.dummies.com/article/technology/computers/hardware/arduino/how-to-complete-your-first-arduino-sketch-164747 (https://www.dummies.com/article/technology/computers/hardware/arduino/how-to-complete-your-first-arduino-sketch-164747)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OtMqr5hGjE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OtMqr5hGjE)
For the videos I think it is largely a matter finding a presenter whose style you like and often they will have a selection of tutorials. I prefer the more measured, calm style presentation. Some videos are 'crash, bang wallop' and everything is Great, Great! GREAT! at breakneck speed that I find wearing.
Edit: sorry just noticed the video is quite old so some of the version details may have changed a bit.
Quote from: GraemeD on March 02, 2022, 18:10
Iain Morrison is the contact.
Thanks I will contact him
Quote from: GraemeD on March 02, 2022, 18:10
There is also a DCC SIG Section on the forum!
I hadn't put two and two together, thanks!
Quote from: GraemeD on March 02, 2022, 21:26
Quote from: Dave Cooper on March 02, 2022, 19:46
Presumably, once in the IDE, I just download the bits I want rather than the whole lot ? That is, a specific block of 'C' code I suppose...
If I understand you correctly, then yes. The IDE itself is big, but individual Arduino C programs or 'Sketches' as they are styled are small pieces of code, written by the user (or found in the examples programs) which are compiled in the IDE by its C compiler. The resulting machine code is transferred automatically from the PC over the USB cable by a small permanent program residing on the Arduino called the Bootloader. It all happens transparently to the user once the options in the IDE for the version of the Arduino board and the USB port are selected by the user.
There are a good many online tutorials and YouTube videos available once you separate out the chaff. e.g.
https://www.dummies.com/article/technology/computers/hardware/arduino/how-to-complete-your-first-arduino-sketch-164747 (https://www.dummies.com/article/technology/computers/hardware/arduino/how-to-complete-your-first-arduino-sketch-164747)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OtMqr5hGjE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OtMqr5hGjE)
For the videos I think it is largely a matter finding a presenter whose style you like and often they will have a selection of tutorials. I prefer the more measured, calm style presentation. Some videos are 'crash, bang wallop' and everything is Great, Great! GREAT! at breakneck speed that I find wearing.
Edit: sorry just noticed the video is quite old so some of the version details may have changed a bit.
Thanks again Graeme, you're giving me some hope and confidence here !
If I remember correctly, the first lesson is to make an LED blink. The second, to write or modify a simple sketch.....getting into 'shields' and other I/O stuff comes much later I think ?
I have got a book on it somewhere. I think it's time to dig out chapter 1 and 'take the plunge'. Also, I need to learn "Open Tx" for the 2.4GHz module on the RC radio side.
BTW - I'm with you on the video presenter style - slow, clear and steady for me with no "Glitz".
Regards, Dave
ps Just a thought : I wonder if we could do a Zoom session on Arduino sometime ? I'm sure there are many folk who would benefit, if only out of curiosity...
Quote from: Dave Cooper on March 03, 2022, 14:32
ps Just a thought : I wonder if we could do a Zoom session on Arduino sometime ? I'm sure there are many folk who would benefit, if only out of curiosity...
Hi Dave,
That's a thought. Would this be under the auspices of the Electronics SIG as I see your original query related to the RC SIG and I'm not sure it would have much appeal there (though I have an interest in the RC SIG). If so we can add you to the distribution list for the Electronics SIG.
I'm happy to try to help directly with Arduino questions, though perhaps it is best to take it off the forum (PM via the forum or email me at 009electronicssig@gmail.com ) as I imagine it is a minority interest for this forum.
Quote from: GraemeD on March 03, 2022, 16:44
Quote from: Dave Cooper on March 03, 2022, 14:32
ps Just a thought : I wonder if we could do a Zoom session on Arduino sometime ? I'm sure there are many folk who would benefit, if only out of curiosity...
Hi Dave,
That's a thought. Would this be under the auspices of the Electronics SIG as I see your original query related to the RC SIG and I'm not sure it would have much appeal there (though I have an interest in the RC SIG). If so we can add you to the distribution list for the Electronics SIG.
I'm happy to try to help directly with Arduino questions, though perhaps it is best to take it off the forum (PM via the forum or email me at 009electronicssig@gmail.com ) as I imagine it is a minority interest for this forum.
Thanks again Graeme. I'm sure the odd question will crop up. For Zoom, I guess the sessions will be on a specific topic ? I'm new to Zoom so, there might need to be a bit of coaching there too ! (Although, I have done work-related video conferencing pre-retirement...)
Cheers for now (in the meantime, I'll use your 'sig' email),
Dave