Hi Guys
Well after a lot of huffing and puffing about this and a £221 price tag I finally got my first 009 gauge sound locomotive from Bachmann to go with my 2 heljan locomotives I must say that Bachmann have done a good job of this but my only criticism with the sound is where they have put the other whistles they aren't ideal for a basic controller but at least it sounds good or better than a silent locomotive do any of you use Dcc sound and would you like to see it developed more
Thanks
Alan
It's amazing how technology has improved leaps and bounds to the point of such miniaturisation. I'm quite sure speakers will get even smaller, but will they sound better I don't know?
For those of us who are not into DCC, kato did release a sound box back in 2015 or 16 for the US market with basis diesel sound for simple DC. I'm not sure if it was released in Europe. I've just seen videos of it on YouTube.Since then they have released sound cards of steam but they are based on North American locomotives. The sound is pretty good. Pity they don't manufacture a sound card for the European Market with the higher pitched whistles which would be great. I know it would sound generic but it would still give a better bass effect then a small speaker in a small loco.
Just my thoughts. :) :)
Robin
I love the sound equipped locos I have. I bought an ESU sound programmer and interface unit and enjoy programming locos for friends.
- Zillertalbahn D15 and D16 - I developed the sound profile for the ESU Loksound 4 decoders using engine noises from the same US Caterpillar engine in a loco in the ESU sound library and German diesel horns etc.
- 2 x Brawa Br199 - Sound profile developed from the V100 loco they were based on.
- 3 x Bachmann Baldwins with factory sound - I could listen to these locos all day!
- 2 x Roco 2095 diesels with factory sound - superb programming by Roco.
I think DCC sound really enhances the driving experience, especially when children are involved.
Note: I always turn off the sound on any locos in the fiddle yard!
There is no question the smiles it brings to kids faces as these little locos roll past them chuffing, and when the whistle blows mum's and dad's are equally surprised.
Robin.
It should be noted that the sound in the Bachmannn Baldwins that haaver DCC fitted also works on normal DC controllers.
It is not as good as with DCC control, it makes no noise when the controller is off, and there is a slight lag before the loco moves at start up.
But the sound does work on DC.
Obviously you do need a DCC fitted loco.
Please excuse my ignorance about matters DCC, but are you saying I could buy a Bachmann sound fitted Baldwin and hear the exhaust sound on my DC layout when the loco is running? Barry
Quote from: Barry Witteridge on September 30, 2021, 11:47
Please excuse my ignorance about matters DCC, but are you saying I could buy a Bachmann sound fitted Baldwin and hear the exhaust sound on my DC layout when the loco is running? Barry
Yes that is correct.
A DCC sound factory fitted Bachmann Baldwin loco will make the exhaust sounds when used on a DC layout.
However, you need to be very carefull about what controller you use.
I think the gaugemaster non-feedback controllers are ok. (Ie Combi, W etc.)
If in doubt ask Bachmann first.
As I mentioned there is a bit of a lag when starting from a stand, the loco will not move for a second or so when you turn the controller up and you will not get any sound when the power is off.
Thanks for your reply Brian, most interesting, might consider getting a sound fitted one for my layout. The "Sid" I have is a very sweet runner I am most impressed by it.
I just bought one of these as well, DCC but no sound.
My layout is an inherited one and I didn't lay the track which is fairly old Peco wonky sleeper stuff. The only other loco I have is a Roco shunter and it runs around like a champ but the Baldwin seems to be super-sensitive to any track issues. A couple of points are being very troublesome, sometimes the loco will run over them fine, next time round it derails or stalls. I have converted the frogs by isolating them from the blade rails, bonding the blade rails to the adjacent stock rails and switched the frog polarity via a micro switch on the MERG servo mounts. That seems to work well but even after much careful adjustment, the Baldwin still derails at intervals.
Anyone else having these problems?
Is the Baldwin brand new or second hand?
If it is second hand it is a good idea to check the back-to-back on the wheels are all the same.
If it is new it should be fine, but still worth a look to be sure.
Just compare these to your other loco that works fine.
Next there were some geometry issues with the Peco 009 12-inch LH and RH points and the 18-inch 009 Y points made before Peco upgraded the mouldings in 2010. I have known these to cause issues with some locos.
I would not recommend doing this unless you are prepared to replace the point if it goes wrong, but one way to sort this issue is to file the V in the curved check rail of the frog so it is at a slightly wider gauge than as built, this usualy sorts out the problems.
If your layout dates before 1980 then it will have the old 9-inch Peco points, these are generally ok however the Bachmann Baldwin may not like them as they are not the same as the 9-inch set track points that are now available.
Also 9 inch is just about as tight as the Baldwin can manage, if there is a kink at the rail joint before the point this may well make the curve too tight.
You also have to be mindful that the end of the blade sits in the recess in the fixed rail and is not sitting proud and catching on the leading wheel flange as the loco goes through the point.
Quote from: B.Meldon on November 05, 2021, 15:33
Is the Baldwin brand new or second hand?
If it is second hand it is a good idea to check the back-to-back on the wheels are all the same.
If it is new it should be fine, but still worth a look to be sure.
Just compare these to your other loco that works fine.
Next there were some geometry issues with the Peco 009 12-inch LH and RH points and the 18-inch 009 Y points made before Peco upgraded the mouldings in 2010. I have known these to cause issues with some locos.
I would not recommend doing this unless you are prepared to replace the point if it goes wrong, but one way to sort this issue is to file the V in the curved check rail of the frog so it is at a slightly wider gauge than as built, this usualy sorts out the problems.
If your layout dates before 1980 then it will have the old 9-inch Peco points, these are generally ok however the Bachmann Baldwin may not like them as they are not the same as the 9-inch set track points that are now available.
Also 9 inch is just about as tight as the Baldwin can manage, if there is a kink at the rail joint before the point this may well make the curve too tight.
You also have to be mindful that the end of the blade sits in the recess in the fixed rail and is not sitting proud and catching on the leading wheel flange as the loco goes through the point.
Its brand new, I have a back to back gauge from DCC concepts but I need to accurately measure it, it's reporting the Baldwin wheels are a tad narrow.
The points are a mix of old & new, I have done a little filing on the depth of the flange on the frog of the left hand one but it didn't make any difference. Where the loco stops ( and it appears to be jammed as the wheels turn) is on the entry to the left hand point coming from the left on the middle road - but only sometimes, then again it might stall on the right hand one - sometimes. Other time it sails on through perfectly and it has no problems with the very old Y points elsewhere on the layout.
I'll try your suggestion of the check rail and check the B2B gauge
Thanks for the input
David
I am definitely making progress, I took your advice and filed the gap on the frog a little wider on entry and I also filed down the leading edge to make a more gentle transition. This appears to have worked, thank you. I did all the straight points on the layout (4) then I looked at the 'Y' points, they definitely have a wider gap at the frog check rail so they are fine.
OK, back to the Baldwin itself. I seem to be getting some unexplained stalls, even on dead straight track, I've cleaned it all and cleaned the wheels but it is still happening and sometimes the loco does not restart without help from the BHS. So a couple of questions:
Anyone else seeing this and have you determined the cause?
Does the loco have pick up wires on all the main driving wheels, I can't see without dismantling it?
Would it benefit from fitting a stay-alive?
Cheers
David
Using a couple of wires from your controller on about half power with the loco up side down in a cradle you will be able to see if the wheels are picking up as they should.
Quote from: B.Meldon on November 08, 2021, 11:06
Using a couple of wires from your controller on about half power with the loco up side down in a cradle you will be able to see if the wheels are picking up as they should.
Thanks, I'll give that a try. I'm also adjusting CV2 to increase starting voltage and that seems to have helped a bit.
But do you know the specific answers to my original questions? Is it supposed to pick up from all driving wheels?
Quote from: David Thompson on November 08, 2021, 12:01
But do you know the specific answers to my original questions? Is it supposed to pick up from all driving wheels?
Sorry, yes all six driving wheels and the unpowered fixed wheels so 8 wheel pickup. It is only the front wheels on the pony truck that do not pick up.
Well, I have proved it's picking up on all driving wheels and I've increased CV2 to 10 but the problem persists. It seems to be very sensitive to any disturbance such as a minor track imperfection or my accidentle nudge of the board. More noticeable when in reverse. My B2B gauge is 7.63mm and is telling me that the loco wheels are fractionally less than that. Could that be a problem?
If the wheels are clean and all the pickups are working it could well be a track problem.
009 track does need to be laid very well, and to a far higher standard than 00 track. Any kinks, dips or steps in the rail can cause problems.
On the section of track in your photo pay close attention to the isolating fishplates making sure that the plastic is not sitting proud of the rail head or side.
The problem in the photos has been fixed, it runs fine through there. There are some suspect parts which would require complete relaying, however I am working on them and getting some progress. I am thinking of fitting a stay alive as well, which would over come the brief stoppages.
One thing I have learnt with 009/HOe in the last 4 years is that the track has to be as flat as possible and without any dips or kinks as Brian has already stated. Even if the loco has 8 wheel pick up, it's easy to loose electrical contact if the track is uneven. I had to relay a fair section of my track because of poor construction.
Robin.
I am now going to sound like Julie Andrews, Lets start at the very beginning ?
Building a layout,
Construction and using the correct materials is the first vital component, get that wrong and your problems have already started.
Don t penny pinch , to many people use any old scrap thats lying around.
If the baseboard/boards are not straight or level (cut out any dips on the board surface) you can be losing the battle.
So everything has to be correct before track laying.
As others have said, the tracklaying has to be perfect (invest in track setters if necessary).
Get the basics right and you can have a successful model railway.
Stan.
Quote from: Stan Williams on November 09, 2021, 09:37
I am now going to sound like Julie Andrews, Lets start at the very beginning ?
Building a layout,
Construction and using the correct materials is the first vital component, get that wrong and your problems have already started.
Don t penny pinch , to many people use any old scrap thats lying around.
If the baseboard/boards are not straight or level (cut out any dips on the board surface) you can be losing the battle.
So everything has to be correct before track laying.
As others have said, the tracklaying has to be perfect (invest in track setters if necessary).
Get the basics right and you can have a successful model railway.
Stan.
Sound advice Stan but this layout was constructed many years ago by others no longer with us and I inherited it as the club was going to put it in the skip. So the track is what it is apart from the improvements I have been able to make without starting from scratch and to be honest 95% of it works just fine. It works 100% with other locos.
I'm going to continue to fettle where necessary and fit a stay alive to the loco and then see where we are
Thanks
Quote from: David Thompson on November 09, 2021, 09:43
Sound advice Stan but this layout was constructed many years ago by others no longer with us and I inherited it as the club was going to put it in the skip. So the track is what it is apart from the improvements I have been able to make without starting from scratch and to be honest 95% of it works just fine. It works 100% with other locos.
I'm going to continue to fettle where necessary and fit a stay alive to the loco and then see where we are
Thanks
Yes it is good advice from Stan.
However, even with all this done you will still find that any new layout will need some minor fettling to get it 100%.
Even now many years after my layouts were built to a very high track laying standard I occasionally find issues that cause minor running problems. When this happens I just sort them out.
Jack Carter inherited an old 009 layout many years ago now that was built by one Brian Dutton and had all handmade track. This had quite a few running problems, so much so in the end we gave up, removed all the track, and re-laid the entire layout with new Peco 009 track.
With a complete scenic make over, new hidden storage sidings, all new buildings and completely re-planned station track plans this layout would become 'Pitztalbahn'.
When Brian Dutton next saw the layout even he did not recognise it to start with! In fact no one did, and this little bit of the layout's history was kept between Jack and myself for many years!
Quote from: B.Meldon on November 10, 2021, 08:45
Quote from: David Thompson on November 09, 2021, 09:43
Sound advice Stan but this layout was constructed many years ago by others no longer with us and I inherited it as the club was going to put it in the skip. So the track is what it is apart from the improvements I have been able to make without starting from scratch and to be honest 95% of it works just fine. It works 100% with other locos.
I'm going to continue to fettle where necessary and fit a stay alive to the loco and then see where we are
Thanks
Jack Carter inherited an old 009 layout many years ago now that was built by one Brian Dutton and had all handmade track. This had quite a few running problems, so much so in the end we gave up, removed all the track, and re-laid the entire layout with new Peco 009 track.
What the motor trade refers to by "jack up the number plates and replace everything in between" :)