Was the #2 particularly rare? Most of the others pop up regularly on eBay, and I regularly do not win them, but I can't remember ever seeing a #2.
(Background, The East Kent Heritage line run old electric locos. The track is not electrified so as I understand it they somehow use batteries. It struck me that a #2 towing a battery wagon, although not prototypical, would be different and acceptable on a model of a heritage track)
Yes sorry you are correct, I will change the title.
The Egger No3 electric loco was the least popular loco in the range.
It did not sell well at all.
When the couplings were changed on other locos to be moulded in with the frames in 1967 this did not happen with the No3 because they still had lots of unsold parts from the 1965 production run!
There were about the same number of green No3 locos with the red frames and with the grey frames, but obvioulsy the earlier red frame versions are older so there are not as many about now.
When Jouef purchased all the Egger range in 1968 it included a lot of unsold parts for the green No3 including complete bodies.
All of these bodies for the green No3 included the inner plastic moulding lreft over from the first production run that was of red plastic. This red section can be seen from the outside.
The blue No3 is anther thing altogether, these locos that were fitted with a constant brightness headlamp were more expensive that all the other Egger locos and were even less popular than the green version!!
They all have the moulded in coupling and a grey frame.
The result of the above is that there are less green No3 locos about today than other Egger locos, but as they are still the least popular looking loco so they often sell for less than the others in the range.
You will however always find those that try their luck with daft prices!
The blue No3's are a lot harder to find and as a result tend to sell for more.
Thanks Brian, I have searches on eBay that email anything 009 or H0e and I can't remember ever having seen one, but then quite often I don't read them, especially if I have just bought something.
I agree that it is not the loveliest of NG locos, but would still make an offer if I see one but the prices for NG locos at the moment can be very silly.
I have to say that the example of the green No3 with the grey frames in my collection was one of the first egger locos that I purchased second hand over 40 years ago now. I have photos of it in use on my 1980's chalk quarry layout. However, the red frame one I have is, as far as I can recall, the fourth one that I have owned, each one in better condition that the previous one. In each case I sold the previous one on e-bay, the last was in 2019. I think it sold for about £50. The one I have now is in as new condition, so I will not be purchasing another.
I did pay top price for my blue No3 from a source in Germany that is also in as new condition, but it was about 10 years ago now so perhaps not as much as it would be now.
Over the years I have also gradually improved the chassis on all my egger locos by swapping various parts from countless other chassis over the years including motors, wheels, gears, pickups and even chassis blocks. This is a continuing process, but the result is that most of my collection do run ok. However, even with my stock of spare parts I would still not use any of them as a regular use loco, they are all very much kept for occasional use, this is mainly to prevent them from wearing out, and I would recommend the same to anyone else.
Restoring and repairing locos is my favourite bit of the hobby, if possible using the original parts.
I am aware that these are not always available so I would have to use new equivalents or harvest a donor model.
Personally I would rather avoid that but if it were necessary I would then quite happily use anything I could to get that donor working again.
I am still some way from having a regularly operating layout, so don't have any idea what would be part of my regular roster, but my little Roco diesel would have to be a favourite, and my rebuilt Egger #4 has been much better than I expected since its rebuild. It will be interesting to see how well they convert to DCC.
I have lost count of the number of egger locos I have aquired for parts over the years, almost all in non working condition and in many cases with very poorly modified and/or repainted bodies. I have also purchased new Egger drive gears from several diferent suppliers as well. However, even with these keeping an egger loco in my active fleet is just not an option as they just ware out too quickly with use.
I have also restored and repaired quite a few over the years as well, but almost all of these were later sold as I was able to get better ones for the collection.
Here is one example of my restoration work below. The top photo is as purchased. This loco that I spotted on e-bay as a silver No1 that had been poorly re-painted in green with black frames, it had the headlamp broken off as was the top part of the exhaust pipe. The couplings were also missing.
The end result in the lower photo was an almost as new condition silver No1 loco. If you look very close you can juse see tiny bits of the remaining green paint in a couple of locations. The chassis was also taken apart and then re-built using the best of the components I had.
That's a great restoration Brian, I would be very pleased to have restored something as well as that.
You mentioned that parts wear out, which parts are the worse, the motor? The bearings?
Once it is running my #4 runs quite nicely, but its a pig to start smoothly. I have read several articles including one that blames degraded magnets. I think that rather than trying to hack the original motor I might look at fitting a coreless motor with a flywheel. I know this will mean making some kind of mounting block but that's fine :-)
Stephen
That's a superb restoration Brian. It looks like it's brand new out of the box.
Quote from: Peter Boulter on July 12, 2021, 15:15
That's a superb restoration Brian. It looks like it's brand new out of the box.
Thanks. Yes that was the idea.
I got lucky with this, no primer was used and the paint was Humbrol enamel.
If it had primer or was acrilic paint it would have been a very different outcome.
A couple of years later I managed to get a better as new example, so I sold this one on e-bay.
I see that the restored one has a new exhaust/chimney, did you make that or buy it from somewhere?
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on July 12, 2021, 12:15
..... I think that rather than trying to hack the original motor I might look at fitting a coreless motor with a flywheel. I know this will mean making some kind of mounting block but that's fine :-)
Stephen
*
I presume you are aware that Sven van der Hart (TRAMFABRIEK) offers a coreless motor with flywheel and mounting plate for EggerBahn locomotives.
https://tramfabriek.nl/eggerultimate.html
CP
Quote from: cp.409067 on July 12, 2021, 16:58
I presume you are aware that Sven van der Hart (TRAMFABRIEK) offers a coreless motor with flywheel and mounting plate for EggerBahn locomotives.
https://tramfabriek.nl/eggerultimate.html
CP
Yes indeed, and that would be one option thanks for pointing it out. I am not sure which models this works with, I have only ever seen it on the two shown, the Tram and #5 steam loco.
I have never stripped down any of the others to know if they would fit, plus of course Egerbahn locos evolved during their lifetime so again they might not fit, but the principle is sound and Sven seems like a decent bloke who help if there was a problem :-)
Quote from: cp.409067 on July 12, 2021, 16:58
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on July 12, 2021, 12:15
..... I think that rather than trying to hack the original motor I might look at fitting a coreless motor with a flywheel. I know this will mean making some kind of mounting block but that's fine :-)
Stephen
*
I presume you are aware that Sven van der Hart (TRAMFABRIEK) offers a coreless motor with flywheel and mounting plate for EggerBahn locomotives.
https://tramfabriek.nl/eggerultimate.html
CP
The main problem with using these motors is that they do not work at all well with the feedback controllers that make the Egger locos with the original motors run so much better than other controllers. So great if you change all of them, but not good if you run a mix of old and new.
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on July 12, 2021, 16:36
I see that the restored one has a new exhaust/chimney, did you make that or buy it from somewhere?
In this case it is the original exhaust with a new section of the correct size wire added by inserting it into a hole drilled into the plastic in the centre of the top end of the exhaust box. It is secured with a drop of super-glue then painted with satin black. The end result looks identical to the original.
However I have, in the past made complete replacement Egger exhausts using various thicknesses of wire and plasticard that also look identical when painted to the originals.
Quote from: B.Meldon on July 12, 2021, 18:19
Quote from: cp.409067 on July 12, 2021, 16:58
*
..... a coreless motor with flywheel .....
CP
The main problem with using these motors is that they do not work at all well with the feedback controllers that make the Egger locos with the original motors run so much better than other controllers. So great if you change all of them, but not good if you run a mix of old and new.
*
Yes, I completely agree with this comment. Feedback controllers are so very good with non-coreless motors.
The KPC "switched feedback" type might be the answer.
In the short term, using a KPC to run coreless motors with the feedback switched down/out (whichever it is) seems on the basis of limited experimentation to be effective. However, any information as to the effect of long term running would be useful and appreciated.
This matter has been discussed on more than one accasion on NGRMonLine and as far as I can see there has been no definitive answer based on long term experience.
CP
Quote from: B.Meldon on July 12, 2021, 18:19
The main problem with using these motors is that they do not work at all well with the feedback controllers that make the Egger locos with the original motors run so much better than other controllers. So great if you change all of them, but not good if you run a mix of old and new.
Thanks, that is good information. In practice I am planning to go DCC, in which case the issue should be taken care of.
The issue I have is paying £30 for a "collectable" loco that will only get used once or twice a year. In some 00 gauge locos you can plug and unplug the decoder and swap it between locos. That will be possible on some of my larger locos, but ironically I expect these to be the most commonly used ones so I wouldn't want to swap them.
In practice I will probably have to make at least one of my layouts operable on DC or DCC so this info about cored and coreless will be very useful.
Stephen
I agree you can normally squash something in, but the compromise is that you sometimes have to allow it, or something else to be more visible.
My early experiments have already shown that different locos respond differently to different decoders, and I think it was Charlie at Chadwick Model railway that showed changing the decoder for a seemingly identical one could produce different results.
My plan there would be to build up a configuration library for each loco with each decoder that it was used with and then just dump it to the programming track. I haven't quite worked out the software details, but as they say on Top Gear "How hard can it be?" ;D
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on July 12, 2021, 22:21
My plan there would be to build up a configuration library for each loco with each decoder that it was used with and then just dump it to the programming track. I haven't quite worked out the software details, but as they say on Top Gear "How hard can it be?" ;D
That's called Decoder Pro. https://www.jmri.org/help/en/html/apps/DecoderPro/index.shtml
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on July 12, 2021, 21:07
Quote from: B.Meldon on July 12, 2021, 18:19
The main problem with using these motors is that they do not work at all well with the feedback controllers that make the Egger locos with the original motors run so much better than other controllers. So great if you change all of them, but not good if you run a mix of old and new.
In practice I will probably have to make at least one of my layouts operable on DC or DCC so this info about cored and coreless will be very useful.
Stephen
It is not just 'coreless' motors that have issues, the newer low current motors like the N20 motor used by Minitrians and many others are not so good with feedback controllers. These N20 motors are conventional fixed magnet three pole motors with precious metal wipers in place of brushes, they also take far less current than traditional motors. When I use these I try and stick to the 24-volt versions that appear to be better than the 12-volt versions in regard to heating up (and I guess eventualy burning out) with use.
Quote from: duttonbay on July 13, 2021, 01:08
That's called Decoder Pro. https://www.jmri.org/help/en/html/apps/DecoderPro/index.shtml
Thanks, I hadn't even looked yet so that's a job saved :laugh: