As I spend more time on 009 modelling I am becoming aware or certain compromises that I have ben accepting but are now annoying me.
I am not fussed about the track profile, radius or slightly "blurry" shoes, these don't really stand out as a problem to me in a careful photograph. However...
(1) Ballast: Even the Fine stuff from Woodland Scenics is probably twice as big as it should be, and straight from the pot it seems a bit too neat, but very watered down brown paint applied carefully gives me something I am much happier with.
(2) Couplings: None of the ones I have seen look that prototypical to me for UK heritage lines, and end up with the stock further apart to accommodate the tight bends. I have no idea how you could get round that simply and reliably.
(3) Insulating gaps, these always leap out at me in a photograph, and I would love to find someway of hiding these.
(4) Point / Turnout Gubbings. NG railways have many, many different ways of operating points, but I really have to put a lever there, and would love to make it work. Better still I plan to put rodding on my modular and a low level signal box. I am also getting obbsessive about the shape of Peco tie bars, and plan to trim them down a bit, losing the "pip" and hole, operating them from underneath.
This is just me, does anybody have solutions to these issue or any other compromises that annoy them? ;D
I can live with quite a few things that are wacky, but what bugs me the most are couplers.
Beggers can't be chooser in this small scale. I know for myself just trying to put together a pair of couplers sends me over the top. As far as ballast is concerned I take what I have and re-grind it to what I think is OK. If I let everything bug me then its time to move on to some other hobby.
Robin.
Weathering can disguise 1 and 3 when viewed from normal viewing distances. 2 I just live with, it's never worried me particularly, radii of curves is another compromise. The Mainline points and track are very good models of the prototypes I model so that's fine. Again on the lines I model they use individual point levers, like most of British NG practice and so I conceal the point mechanisms and live with the fact they don't move...
Life's full of compromises, especially small scale model railways, the key is not getting too hung up about most of them. The other thing to bear in mind is that small scale models such as ours are not designed to be viewed close up, they are a compromise and so best viewed from a few feet away. Modern cameras with good close up technology has a lot to answer for!
Firstly I will say that if modelling compromise is something you can not accept then 009 is not for you! 009 is all about compromise even the very best layouts have compromises. There have been some very good attempts at removing as many compromises as possible, for example Pete Wilson's massive quarry layout he built in the 1980's with 8mm gauge track and stub points with rods etc. But even Pete went back to 9mm gauge with his next layout Wilsden Junction.
1. Ballast: I use Modeller's Mate extra fine granite chippings, most particles are under 0.5mm so under 1.5 scale inches. I paint all the ballast and track 'rust', this looks ok to me.
2. The couplings do not look like the real things and the gaps between the vehicles do need to be bigger. This is all down to the radius we use in 009, and what we want to do with the couplings. If you used scale radius curves and points then other options would be available. For example the curves and points in use on the Talyllyn railway work out at about 53 inch curves in 009, the FR/WHR is about 25 inch radius. In the real world on UK lines a person is needed to couple and uncouple, in model form this is imposable. I do not like manual 'hand of god' intervention on my layouts so I need reliable hands free coupling and uncoupling to accomplish the extensive shunting that I enjoy on my layouts. This is why I use the Egger/Bemo type couplings with ramps.
3. Insulating gaps are well hidden if everything apart from the rail head is painted rust colour. But unless you go for remote control they are necessary, but even with remote control you need expansion joints.
4. I have seen more than one 009 layout with working point roding. In short unless you are within a few inches you can not see it move.
Brian Meldon
I need to be clear that this was never meant to refer to other people's work, a hobby like this means different things to each of us.
I was simply going over things that I would love to be able to fix on my own layouts.
The list of things I have already sorted is much longer, such as carefully re-spacing sleepers on run up to points so there isn't an odd looking gap and visible drop cables.
I am going to try moving insulating gaps near frogs back a few cm and have them at different distances, so there isn't a regular pattern to draw your eye.
As for point rodding, I wasn't suggesting that it needs to move, that could very quickly become a time sink to keep working, but open ground frame handles should be possible, driven from the tie bar, and hopefully ground signals too. I just need to work out a simple way of doing it
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on June 13, 2021, 03:40As for point rodding, I wasn't suggesting that it needs to move, that could very quickly become a time sink to keep working, but open ground frame handles should be possible, driven from the tie bar, and hopefully ground signals too. I just need to work out a simple way of doing it
Weinert do working point levers with indicators. British style "ground signals" work from a 'box or ground frame, they don't work in conjunction with the points. If you check out the 00 scale cottage industry mob you will find 00 scale ground frames and rodding, try a Google search.
https://weinert-modellbau.de/shop/weinert-modellbau-h0/mechanisches-stellwerk-h0/unbeleuchtete-weichenlaterne-fuer-mein-gleis-weichen-rechts-links-detail
Quote from: Hobby on June 13, 2021, 09:56
Weinert do working point levers with indicators. British style "ground signals" work from a 'box or ground frame, they don't work in conjunction with the points. If you check out the 00 scale cottage industry mob you will find 00 scale ground frames and rodding, try a Google search.
https://weinert-modellbau.de/shop/weinert-modellbau-h0/mechanisches-stellwerk-h0/unbeleuchtete-weichenlaterne-fuer-mein-gleis-weichen-rechts-links-detail
Thanks Blair, they are a new one on me, but they look nice. I have found a few static 3D printable ones, which I modify or even crack on and actually learn how to use 3D cad and print my own. I enjoy the model engineering side of things far more than painting (which I loath) or making scenery so for me a single pair of points with a linked and working hand lever and ground signal would be more of an achievement that making an entire scenic module.
Indeed, that is why I am looking forward to experimenting with my static grass machine and tree kits once we reach our temporary accommodation, so I can finish off the Micro-layouts I started last year, and the only buildings will be a few huts made from kits that will require very little detailed painting.
And rather pricey! Individual levers vary from railway to railway and often on the same railway. Even on the real railway I have had to use several different types over the years! Peco do a ground frame(s) for British practice and Knightwing do levers, though I don't think any could be used to actually work with the point. An alternative to Weinert if you like the continental touch is Auhagen who do a plastic version of the Weinert ones, I think it can be made to work with the point but I've never tried, it's easier to get hold of in the UK as well.
https://railsofsheffield.com/products/35565/wills-kits-ss91-oo-gauge-lever-ground-frame?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhsPunMKU8QIVSYjVCh1SYwcuEAQYASABEgLzPvD_BwE
https://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/knightwing/kwb14_ground_frames(point_levers).htm
https://www.goldenvalleyhobbies.com/41618-auhagen-ho-6-signal-point-indicators
Stephen, I'm most interested in the static grass results when you get to it. I've been toying with the idea of getting a Noch grass applicator but they are not cheap. I've seen some videos where a electric fly swat was used to make a cheap grass applicator, I'm not quite sure of the end result.
Trees, I need quite a few. I am making my own out of soft florists wire but it's very time consuming and a bit rough on the old fingers.
Robin.
From my experience, Robin, you get what you pay for with static grass applicators. The cheapo ones will work but you'll get much better results with the more expensive ones. Mine is the Peco one which has been bought in from another manufacturer and gives good results without the Noch price tag. Don't overlook grass mats either, I've used them on all my recent layouts and I use them as a base on which I use different coloured flock and static grass to break up the sameness of the mats.
Grassmat basically is static grass 1.0. ;)
I've had good results using it for lawns and other intensively managed grasses but not fields or wilds.
The fibres not standing up straight on slopes, and the thick, sometimes stiff, backing are the major weaknesses.
I've now collected a ridiculous number and variety of those static grass tufts, so it will probably be doable to cover my layout's grassy areas in tufts and not need an electric shock device. ???
Some interesting observations there..
The obvious solution to insulating gaps visible in photographs - is not to photograph them!
I watched Steve Flint when he photographed my layout - he was careful to set up shots to show the layout at its best.
The human eye is much more forgiving than the camera, of course.
Yes, grass mats. I totally forgot about them. Thanks guys.
Quote from: Robin Webster on June 13, 2021, 13:59Stephen, I'm most interested in the static grass results when you get to it. I've been toying with the idea of getting a Noch grass applicator but they are not cheap. I've seen some videos where a electric fly swat was used to make a cheap grass applicator, I'm not quite sure of the end result. Trees, I need quite a few. I am making my own out of soft florists wire but it's very time consuming and a bit rough on the old fingers. Robin.
You'll find lots of useful info on both static grass and trees, and the various ways to create them, both on this forum and on NGRM, of course. I tend to use grape stalks and sisal for some trees, for example - less painful on the fingers! - and have successfully used the 'rolled cigar' technique for grass, but everyone has their own preferred methods.
David.
Quote from: David Weber on June 13, 2021, 14:52
Grassmat basically is static grass 1.0. ;)
I've had good results using it for lawns and other intensively managed grasses but not fields or wilds.
I had the same issue but on Alber I used one then spread random flock and other static grass to brake up the single colour. So used the mat as a "base". You also need to remember not to lay them on a flat surface, which also applies to ordinary static grass as most areas of grass we model are far from a flat surface. It's surprising how many people have flat fields, though!
Quote from: Robin Webster on June 13, 2021, 13:59
Stephen, I'm most interested in the static grass results when you get to it. I've been toying with the idea of getting a Noch grass applicator but they are not cheap.
I will certainly report back, mine is Peco and was a Christmas present, but we decided to move shortly afterwards so it was packed straight away. I have experimented with using dyed hanging basket liner and scotch brite pads for scrub and hedges and will be continuing with that once we have moved.
There was an article in this Months Model Rail (page 101) on tree armatures, and I am going to try a set of Woodland Scenics armatures, and a pack of Seam Foam from Noch. Hopefully they will give different results, as I want to create mixed woodlands so don't want them all the same.
John Wilkes (Oxford 009 Soc) uses "found" twigs and plants on Coleford, and that looks really good. If I can find something useful I will be giving that a go too.
I also had a bit of luck when clearing out our loft, I found some plastic Fronds(?) for our plastic Christmas tree from 30 years ago. Hopefully these with a coat of paint and some very short static grass could make passable fir trees.
Quote from: David Weber on June 13, 2021, 14:52
I've now collected a ridiculous number and variety of those static grass tufts, so it will probably be doable to cover my layout's grassy areas in tufts and not need an electric shock device. ???
If you are worried about it then I have heard that connecting a 1MOhm resistor in the earth wire gives total protection. In normal use thee is no current flowing so the voltage to the mesh is not changed, but if it shorts the resistor limits the current to just a few milli amps. It sounds good in theory.
A bit like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkzLwS5n5c8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkzLwS5n5c8)
Cheap plastic 'weed' sold for aquaria is also worth investigating for tree armatures.
David.
Quote from: clayliner on June 14, 2021, 09:37
Cheap plastic 'weed' sold for aquaria is also worth investigating for tree armatures.
That's a good point, I used quite a bit of that on my Sci-Fi Dioramas, especially the garish colours for alien vegetation.
Having said that in the last year I have bough marble dust, which came in small snaplock bags, a pair of small digital scales, 2 lots of snaplock bags, and a spice grinder. My wife is already worried that I am now on some police watch list so if I tell her I am buying weed she won't be able to sleep!
Having bought Noch sea foam 3 years ago in the hope of having a selection of trees I ended up with small bushes. The stuff is extremely brittle. I had "branches" snap off like a hurricane had gone through the box and on my table. I did all that fancy spraying with their glue as shown on the box and sprinkled ground foam but in the process of planting a tree I had a stub instead. Perhaps I am all thumbs but this stuff is not for me. I still have a half box of bushes .... trees.
Robin.
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on June 14, 2021, 11:38
Quote from: clayliner on June 14, 2021, 09:37
Cheap plastic 'weed' sold for aquaria is also worth investigating for tree armatures.
That's a good point, I used quite a bit of that on my Sci-Fi Dioramas, especially the garish colours for alien vegetation.
Having said that in the last year I have bough marble dust, which came in small snaplock bags, a pair of small digital scales, 2 lots of snaplock bags, and a spice grinder. My wife is already worried that I am now on some police watch list so if I tell her I am buying weed she won't be able to sleep!
Hmmm. Several small bags of powder, small digital scales and a spice grinder. If the police stop you and find those in your car you'll be in the custody suite of the of the local nick before you know it. (and that'll be before you mention going to buy some weed).
:police: :police: