I experimented in this issue with having just one column on a page and not 2. Which is better? The emails I have had are evenly divided
I prefer two column. I would not claim dyslexia or other condition without ever having been diagnosed, but I do struggle with long lines of text. I guess it may be more of a physical limitation with tracking lines of text related to my ophthalmic prescription. Please don't move away from a Sans Serif font though.
I note Railway Modeller is mostly three column, but the point size is smaller. There is probably some secret magic formula for font size, line spacing and column width for ease of reading.
*
For an A4 page width and the relevant size of typeface, two columns are far better than one. The text becomes clearer and easier to read.
CP
Another vote for two columns. I find the two column format easier to read at this size of type and page. I also find it is more engaging or inviting; perhaps because the single column format is harder to read, as in more like hard work, it put me off reading the articles. I had noticed they were less easy to read without realising why.
Frank
I also would to for two columns (at 10pt).
Keep up the good work, Stuart!
Quote from: Stephen Fulljames on May 22, 2021, 19:53
I agree that the line length of a two column layout is much easier to read. The John Ahern article in particular was very difficult to scan.
I'd agree with that. I too found the John Ahern article interesting but difficult to read as a single column.
I found that the single column layout looked too 'text dense' and didn't encourage me to read it. I think a two column layout works much better and is easier to read.
Another vote here for two columns, much easier to read.
Agreed - two columns easier to scan and read for me
Well that was a resounding vote for the two column format! There are two articles in the current issue which are single column but have a lot of whitespace around them and short paragraphs which I will leave as is but the rest I will ensure is two column, particularly the AGM pieces which are all text. I'll also aim to make two column the default going forwards. After the comment on Railway Modeller I want and had a look and ths month they have a four column article. Thank you for the feedback, duly noted!
Any thoughts on moving all the society regular bits to inside the front cover? I always felt that there was space in the front cover that was under utilised and I don't feel the need to have a significant area where I was lyrical. After all, I see my purpose as showcasing your work in the best way possible.
I never noticed!! I'll just go with the flow! ;) :)
I thought I had placed a vote for two columns but it must not have saved to the thread.
Regarding the inside front cover I thought the Society regular bits took up too much space and could possibly have been reduced in size, it looked a little untidy if I am honest.
Something Tom Dauben did when he was editor was to repeat the front cover photograph in a much smaller size but with an extended caption on the inside front cover. If something is good enough to be on the front cover then it deserves a full explanation even if there is an article elsewhere in the News. You should still have some space available for any urgent announcements or Editors waffle profound words of wisdom.
Or how about a picture series - "Heritage Collection Model of the Month" (Sorry Julien should have run that idea past you first)
Malcolm
Malcolm has beaten me to it as I was about to write with comments that just about mirror what he has stated!
1. Definitely 2 (and if appropriate on occasions: 3) but NOT 1 column! There was a period in 009 News history, after Hugh's blue pencil tenure early 2000's when 1 column was used quite a lot and there was quite a deluge of criticism about it at the time, which has been reflected in comments here - mainly that most people (not just old ones or dyslexic ones (guilty on both counts myself to some degree) find a single column on an A4 page in something around 10 point and single line spacing very difficult to read. The JHA article with no photos being a good example as well as the Barnstaple Town article with photos top and bottom of both pages and the body text in the middle in single column being another.
Thatched cottage article pages 6 and 7 in 2 column being much more comfortable as is page 8 of David Hennessey's Knightwing, which shows a different variety of 2 column, where the lead 2 paragraphs are single column but sit quite comfortably in this case.
2. You asked for feedback on the new page 2 layout and moving your editorial to go with other Committee notices/ Society News stuff on pages 20-21. My own opinion is that it is fine and the result on page 2 is very well balanced. Good to see that the committee member's panel is now complete and all are included, something I have corresponded with Julian about myself and I am quite comfortable that it is only the Directors who have full addresses shown with just emails for the "lower top table". Having the key to the executive bog has to come with a price otherwise everyone would want to enjoy the luxuries that come with the free 1st class travel and penthouse suite booking at the Travelodge on committee meeting weekends.......
3. I have spotted your first proof reading oversight - page 13 bottom right photo caption.
4. Surprised that Malcolm didn't comment on the opening paragraph of John Davies' article on JH Ahern where he says how delighted he was to learn "just how much of the Craig & Mertonford survives and is kept for posterity by the Society". Just for the record, the Society keeps just 2 C&MR items safe in the Heritage Collection - England loco Angus and one of the Moko diecast goods wagons. Malcolm is guardian of most of the surviving stock, the Dundreich section of the C&MR and other PD Hancock items and artefacts on behalf of the Edinburgh & Lothians MRC.
I do actually totally agree with Malcolm's suggestion about a picture series of "Heritage Collection Model of the Month" plus a decent write up about the provenance of the subject is very welcomed and actually overdue. Similar expansion of knowledge about the collection has been proposed regularly for many years to my own knowledge. I would supplement this suggestion with a small addition in that where we have extensive collections preserved and safeguarded that these could form whole articles rather than just a "model of the month" in their own right - not every month but maybe 2 or 3 times a year, I'm thinking of the Aire Valley, Stronachlachar, HB Whall models as examples for this idea.
Finally (sorry for waffle!) - thank you for taking on the job, 2 issues in I think you are doing very well!
Mick Thornton
Another vote for 2 (or more) narrower columns of text. Like GreameD I find that with wide columns of text my eye can drop me back to the start of the line I've just read rather than the next line down.
Btw I do suffer with mild dyslexia, and a tip I'll pass on is that I have found that when my eyes play this game if I tilt the page slightly so that the end of one line is horizontally aligned with the start of the next the reading of the text flows much better.
I think that Railway Modeller can get away with 3 or even 4 columns because they print on paper that is larger than A4
I feel that going to 3 columns may leave space for too few words per line per column?
That having been said I notice that, back when I was roped to the tiller, I used both 2 and 3 column text!
Quote from: hughn on May 23, 2021, 15:02
That having been said I notice that, back when I was roped to the tiller, I used both 2 and 3 column text!
Exactly Hugh. I wouldn't recommend 3 columns as a default. I think 2 is the one for that, but sometimes it is appropriate to use a 3 column layout, as you did on occasions yourself. Branchlines suits a 3 column layout when appropriate: Chris used 3 columns for Branchlines in the April News with a larger font size than Stuart has used with 2 column for the new June issue, although Stuart has used larger line spacing, I think it is 1½ lines, which makes it easier to read.
Another area where a 3 column "spacing" but actually using 2 columns is to set up text to flow in column 1, then merge columns 2 and 3 for photos and their captions, which was used successfully regularly by Tom and Steve when they had the helm if I remember correctly and it enables one to ring the changes between a large single column width photo and smaller ones inserted into a 2 column layout, with "medium" size photos.
Mick
Mick.
Thank you for clarifying the situation with regard to the Craig and Mertonford. If I may however correct your good self, the Society keeps three C&MR items safe in the Heritage Collection - England loco 'Angus', restored diesel 'Joan' and one of the Moko diecast goods wagons.
Actually I had clocked the error in the News and had intended dropping the Editor an email asking for a correction to be published but had duly forgotten to do so!!! So thanks for the reminder to get the correction off to Stuart! What surprises me is that the Chairman of the Edinburgh & Lothians MRC (Society member) has not been bending my ear about it!
Malcolm
Thanks Malcolm, I had overlooked Joan.
In fact, I wasn't aware that she was in the Heritage Collection, I knew about Rod locating her in poor condition and restoring her, but didn't know he'd put her in the Collection until I saw a photo recently amongst the few items that have managed to be posted on the society website - with a rather unusual text attached, as if it is unknown who restored her!
Mick
I can't quote everyone but the comments and feedback are all interesting. They are appreciated.
Moving the society bits and pieces to the inside front cover made sense. Due to the variety of the Branchlines content that Chris received he had to trade off column width and font size to fit it in and all at the last minute. We have more groups now so it made sense to enlarge the space but I have been in touch with the leaders to manage the word count so it requires less editing. I've also brought the deadline forward so it isn't such a rush.
Regarding the comment that the inside cover looks a little messy, I am inclined to agree and I am not completely happy with the layout of the page but a collection of messy bits is what it is. I intend to come back to that page and give it some attention when I have some time.
In the meantime I have the AGM issue to finish off which is, of course, text heavy...
Apologies for the thread drift Stuart...
[puts on heritage officer hat and adjusts it to rakish angle]
Quote from: MickT on May 24, 2021, 00:26
Thanks Malcolm, I had overlooked Joan.
In fact, I wasn't aware that she was in the Heritage Collection, I knew about Rod locating her in poor condition and restoring her, but didn't know he'd put her in the Collection until I saw a photo recently amongst the few items that have managed to be posted on the society website - with a rather unusual text attached, as if it is unknown who restored her!
Mick
You know much more than me about Joan Mick, but that's not difficult under the circumstances!
When I received the collection in 2019 other than the list I had created whilst it was under my care prior to my handing it back in 2008/9 (when I ceased to be Secretary) and your own records (when you photographed the collection - 2009/10?) I had no documentation, so nothing covering a 10 year period with respect to what Rod had added too (or removed from) the collection, or what (if any) restoration / repair / rebuilding work may or may not have been carried out, either by himself or others.
Quite a black hole!
From my own research (essentially reading PDH's book) I discovered that Joan had been withdrawn from service and broken up, yet here she was back in one piece in the collection with no record of when she arrived or what condition she was in when she came into the collection. At the time I wrote the caption I was
fairly certain that she had been restored (rather heavily as it turns out from subsequent e-mail correspondence with Malcolm) but had no idea if the work had been done before or after acquisition and who might have done this, and the caption I wrote for the photograph reflects what i knew at the time.
Thanks to Malcolm some of those gaps have now been filled in and I have a better idea who did what and when with respect to Joan (and Angus). At some point I'll ask Andrew to update the text with a new caption but there are a list of other jobs (like redecorating my workshop / the spare bedroom to get rid of the water damage from a now repaired roof leak) to get through first.
If you'd like to discuss things further then I can be contacted via heritage@009society.com
[removes heritage officer hat as it keeps slipping over my eyes]
Again, apologies for the thread drift Stuart.
Thanks for the update Julien. Yes, from what you say there is indeed a black hole but I'm sure that can be resolved if we get together at some stage and compare what we mutually know and what documentation exists etc.
I'll be in touch via other means and we can give Stuart his thread back!
Mick
Aw shucks! I was enjoying the discussion!!
Can I suggest that rather than go private (!) you just set up another thread? That way anyone else with info can also chip in!
For those of us receiving the digital version one column is by far and away best .
Quote from: Alan Feldon on May 25, 2021, 11:27
For those of us receiving the digital version one column is by far and away best .
I can understand Alan's point. I actually get the paper copy, but often read back-numbers from the archive on the Society website.
I agree that scrolling down one column then back up to read the next column is a nuisance. However for me as a dyslexic reader, keeping my eye on the line as I read across a long line of text is just as difficult on screen as it is on a printed page. I can make it easier by adjusting the page to put the line I'm reading near the top or bottom of the window, but then I have to scroll for almost every line of text.
2 or 3 columns is better for me. Also, as Mick suggested, unequal columns with the wider one for mixed pictures and text is quite a good compromise (and one I've used quite often myself for documents with a lot of embedded graphics).
A small thought on point size. I personally try to avoid sacrificing text size as far as possible. If I hit space problems, I often find that tweaking the inter-character and inter-line spacing a little, yields quite a lot of extra room when needed. (Conversely, it's also quite a good way of surreptitiously padding out text to fill a larger space.) Of course, if you overdo it, the text becomes totally unreadable by anyone!
All that said, I fully accept that I can't force the world to fit my particular preferences!
Ian
Another vote for two columns.
Mac
Quote from: Ian McAulay on May 25, 2021, 15:44
A small thought on point size. I personally try to avoid sacrificing text size as far as possible. If I hit space problems, I often find that tweaking the inter-character and inter-line spacing a little, yields quite a lot of extra room when needed. (Conversely, it's also quite a good way of surreptitiously padding out text to fill a larger space.) Of course, if you overdo it, the text becomes totally unreadable by anyone!
I already fiddle the inter paragraph spacing to help with fitting. I haven't yet experimented with inter character spacing. My preference is not to do that I struggle with the letters too close together as well.
Some more questions.
One of the aspects of the current layout that niggles is the way that words get split and hyphenated at the end of a line. I finally worked out to turn that off last night but it's too late to change the whole issue which has to be finished this weekend and still has a blank 1.5 pages. Do others find the hyphenation annoying?
Lastly, when scanning through Railway Modeller I saw that on their 2 and 3 column formats they use left justification which gives a ragged right hand side to the column. Personally, I'm not sure I like it but I wondered if those who struggle with pages of text find it any easier to read. I'm one of those people who like symmetry. Cars are meant to have two fog lamps and two reversing lamps ;D
I think there must be some 'compositors rule' on when to use right justification, or it could just be house style. I think where the right justification can be made up of relatively subtle word spacings it looks fine, but in newspapers which have very narrow columns it looks odd when they pad out with large spacing between letters of a word. I imagine space between columns has an effect too. I guess the narrower the gap the more important right justification becomes.
I think hyphenating of words is acceptable when it happens occasionally and at a sensible break between syllables in a word but in some documents it looks as if any excuse has been used to insert them.
I'm another person who likes symmetry and believes that cars should have two reversing lights and two fog lights.
I also prefer fully justified text and no hyphenation, I tend to read hyphenated words as two separate words which I find can be confusing especially if the hyphenation produces something that looks like two actual words resulting in a sentence that doesn't make sense.
An example: If the word "reversing" gets hyphenated it could come out as "rever" and "sing" which I'd probably read as "river sing"
Columns: I prefer two, but there should always be one written by the chairman...
Pictures: as big as possible provided they come with enough pixels. A recent editor tolerated visible pixilation.
Justification: left, left, and only ever left. (I think this is the style feature most subject to fashion, but not all fashion is good.)
If in doubt, don't week or pout, never hesitate - just hyphenate.
Hi Stuart,
In response to your latest couple of questions:
I don't like the over-use of full justification as very often that results in individual words s t r e t c h e d out within the line in order to keep the overall paragraph "neat" on both sides. By coincidence I have just received my latest copy of NG World which is directly to hand so can act as a comparator if you like. Andrew Charman consistently uses a 3 column layout (which has already been discussed and I think most are in favour as 2 columns for the News as a usual default) and, relevant to this question, consistent use of left justification with a resultant "ragged" right margin. I think this looks absolutely fine and as someone with ageing eyesight as well as mild dyslexia, I have no problem at all in reading the small size of the text in this format. So, for me I vote very strongly for left justification only.
As to end of line hyphenating words, then I have speed-read through the whole NGW issue and could not find a single one, so maybe this is something that can be totally avoided if you have the time and need to do this, with left justification. If the formatting decides to split a word in this way, using left justification then it can easily be changed by doing a carriage return (ie pressing "enter" for those who can't remember "proper" typing!) and putting the offending word on the next line. Accepted that this may make the typesetting a longer task, but it does give a neater result. I personally have no objection to hyphenating a long word if it is appropriate to do so, ie it might leave a very long space at the end of a line if the last word on the line turns out to be a very long one, as long as the body text is not littered with hyphens at the end of every 2 or 3 lines!
Finally - in response to Tom Haythornthwaite's comment regarding "a recent editer tolerated visible pixelation". I have had difficulty identifying anything "recent" in this context. 20 years ago, when 1st generation digital photography was just finding its feet this was indeed quite common and many of my own submitted photos were published heavily pixellated because that was the best that could be achieved with a heavily compressed jpg image that was only 640 x 480 at the best of times. I don't regard 15 to 20 years ago as "recent" however so can you please be more specific as I can't find anything at present that has been published by Chris, Tom & Stephen or Mark Howe that "tolerates visible pixelation" and I'm curious to find the evidence, particularly if it is (probably is...) one of my own "roving reporter" submissions.
Mick
After my first breakfast out since last year I wandered over to that well known purveyor of magazines and found that left justification is definitely the one in fashion, but does it help those who struggle with print.?
I suspect they do whatever the majority favour, you can't cover all angles as recent replies to this thread prove.
Urgent response to Mick and with apologies to Chris: I only receive the .pdf version and I now realize that I have been viewing the NEWS larger "12 inches to the foot". My remark was neither applicable nor fair.
I have recently subscribed to receive the real thing and only hope it can find its way to Ukraine.
Oooo! Ukraine, Tu2s 4s and 7s... Jealous, moi? :)
Quote from: Tom Haythornthwaite on May 30, 2021, 15:29
Urgent response to Mick and with apologies to Chris: I only receive the .pdf version and I now realize that I have been viewing the NEWS larger "12 inches to the foot". My remark was neither applicable nor fair.
I have recently subscribed to receive the real thing and only hope it can find its way to Ukraine.
Understood Tom, no probs, just needed clarification on what you meant.
Mick