I have just started railway modelling again after 35 years and must admit I am very impressed by the standard of 009 stuff now available compared with the 70's.
I am building a number of coach and wagon kits, none of which come with couplings - does anyone have any recommendations which to use, can any of these be uncoupled magnetically?
I've been using the Windle couplings for a while now. I had started out with Greenwich couplings but found they were too fiddly to make and got bent easily - the Windles are much more robust - if anything too robust as they're stronger than the pony trucks on my locos! In theory it's possible to work them magnetically and fit delayed-action uncoupling, but I haven't tried them yet.
As with many things there is more than one way to skin this particular cat.
If you want to use magnets for hands- free operation you have a choice from the following:
KayDee / Microtrains - these are mini knuckle type couplings from the US. I have not used them myself but from what I can tell they could get pricey as everything would need to be imported and might be quite fidly to make (there is a tiny spring invoved somewhere I think). They are not compatable with anything else, and also, in my opinion, the just do not look right on UK outline stock.
Greenwich - These are easy to obtain and will link to most (if not all) of the other 'lifting loop' type couplings. Unlike RJSRdg I did not have any problems in making them - the prosess involves a coupe of folds of an etch and passing a pin through some holes to make a pivot for the loop, then wrapping fine iron wire around a brass tail to actuate them magnetically - and on layouts I have operated that used them they worked well. However any delayed action would need a modification. Greenwich also sell magnets and a height gauge (and I think everything is available from Parkside Dundas).
DG (or Dee Gee) couplings - Again, these are available (though not as widely as the Greenwich). They are quite small and, consequently, can be easily bent if mishandeled and are a little fiddly to make. They come as an etch, and whilst the basic coupling is easy fitting the delay latches is a bit hit and miss and the loops are made from wire that need to be bent to shape (a jig is available which helps) and they need to have a steel dropper wire soldered to them that in my experience is not the easiest joint to made good. However, once set up right they are an absoulute joy to use and i use them on my layout "Latham's Brewery". One drawback is that they use electromagnets which are not neccessaraly cheap (unless you can make them yourself), but they are one of the few (only?) coupling with delayed action built in and they will hook up to the other "lifting loop" tye of couplings (Greenwich, Bemo, Windle, etc.) if everything is set to the same height.
As to the rest the Windle coupling (as RJSRdg says) will need to be modified for magnetic actuation & delayed action, and I would assume that the same thing can be done to the standard Bemo coplings. I'm not sure if the old Peco couplings can be simularly altered (my guess would be not) and as a final thought I don't think that the standard N gauge coupling (the Elsie?) that a minority of 009ers use (but is not be compatable with anything else) can be 'magnetized', but can be operated remotely with a lifting ramp between the tracks.
I hope that helps.
Julien Webb
Wow - thanks very much for taking the time and effort to compose such a comprehensive reply. Plenty of food for thought - I will let you know how I get on.
Quote from: JulienW on May 12, 2010, 14:51
As to the rest the Windle coupling (as RJSRdg says) will need to be modified for magnetic actuation & delayed action, and I would assume that the same thing can be done to the standard Bemo coplings.
Julien Webb
Shame on you Julien, for not reading your 009 News more thoroughly. There has been, I believe, at least two articles over the years on the subject of converting the Bemo coupling to magnetic auto uncoupling, plus notes from Paul on converting his own. In addition, in Nick Welch's new book "Festiniog Odyssey" pages 21 & 22 deal with his choice of couplings ( Bemo ) and the relatively minor modifications he makes for auto uncoupling. Personally it's a subject that's never bothered me much, as my stock guests on other people's layouts in fixed rakes, furthermore I have never been much bothered by having to use a modified dental probe as a manual uncoupler. You don't get much automatic uncoupling on the real thing.
Quote from: JulienW on May 12, 2010, 14:51
Greenwich - These are easy to obtain and will link to most (if not all) of the other 'lifting loop' type couplings. Unlike RJSRdg I did not have any problems in making them - the prosess involves a coupe of folds of an etch and passing a pin through some holes to make a pivot for the loop
That's the bit I had trouble with - I could never get the four holes lined up satisfactorily - the pin usually became a force fit and consequently the loop wouldn't rise. With Windles it's a much simpler case of folding the holes on the loop down over the protrusions on the bar.
Incidentally I also found Greenwich magnets so strong that if I parked a wagon with metal axles over one, I couldn't move it! However they are ideal for mounting on trains to activate reed switches for train detection!
Quote from: garrywhiting on May 12, 2010, 19:24
Quote from: JulienW on May 12, 2010, 14:51
As to the rest the Windle coupling (as RJSRdg says) will need to be modified for magnetic actuation & delayed action, and I would assume that the same thing can be done to the standard Bemo coplings.
Julien Webb
Shame on you Julien, for not reading your 009 News more thoroughly. There has been, I believe, at least two articles over the years on the subject of converting the Bemo coupling to magnetic auto uncoupling, plus notes from Paul on converting his own. In addition, in Nick Welch's new book "Festiniog Odyssey" pages 21 & 22 deal with his choice of couplings ( Bemo ) and the relatively minor modifications he makes for auto uncoupling. Personally it's a subject that's never bothered me much, as my stock guests on other people's layouts in fixed rakes, furthermore I have never been much bothered by having to use a modified dental probe as a manual uncoupler. You don't get much automatic uncoupling on the real thing.
Thanks Garry, your encylopeadic knowledge strikes again ;) I knew that Paul had covered his own couplings in the News and suspected that someone had done something on simular modifications to the Bemo but could not be sure. Either way I could not tell you when they were in the News.
Quote from: RJSRdg on May 12, 2010, 21:51
Quote from: JulienW on May 12, 2010, 14:51
<snipped>the prosess involves a coupe of folds of an etch and passing a pin through some holes to make a pivot for the loop
That's the bit I had trouble with - I could never get the four holes lined up satisfactorily - the pin usually became a force fit and consequently the loop wouldn't rise. With Windles it's a much simpler case of folding the holes on the loop down over the protrusions on the bar.
Incidentally I also found Greenwich magnets so strong that if I parked a wagon with metal axles over one, I couldn't move it! However they are ideal for mounting on trains to activate reed switches for train detection!
It has been a while since I built them (decided on the DG in the end) but I think that I may have run a fine drill bit (held in a pin vice and turned by hand) or a tapered broach (basically a mini reamer) through the holes to ease things a bit. As to magnets I would tend to go for electromagnets rather than perminant ones as it removes the problems of steel axles being attracted and things uncoupling when you do not want them to, and if you use a delayed action system you need far fewer electromagnets.
Regarding the last two postings, buying a set of tapered broaches was a very good investment after many years of my dallying over spending the money. It is so easy now to open up a hole just a touch to make things rotate sweetly when in the past it was hit or miss.
I use DG couplings ans am very pleased with them, using them on all my stock from 009, HOn30 and O9. As to them being tricky to solder - well they are if you follow the instructions and solder them.
The method I use - which is not original as I read about it on another forum - is to make the whole 'loop and tail' from a single peice of steel wire, rather than the combination of types recommended. This does not seem to affect the operation, but make them far easier and quicker to construct. I can not find the link at the moment to the site I got this tip from, but if anyone wants to see it the just ask and I will have another try to find it.
Whilst the method is 'solderless', I do actual solder the buffing plate when I have bent it to 90 degress just to strengthen it and hold it to the correct angle, although this is a simple operation and I can quickly solder up a whole batch.
As for permanent magnets being too strong but electromagnets being to expensive, I use permanent magnets but arrange for them to slide to the side when not in use to prevent accidental uncoupling. I have not had any problems with steel axles, but if you did then it would not be much harder to arrange for them to hinge downwards when not in use so that the magnetic field is well out of the way.
There's a DG tutorial here
http://www.minimumgauge.info/viewtopic.php?t=3318
How good are DG
Several replies mention stock being used in fixed rakes - could someone please educate me - I assume a rake of wagons are permanently coupled together but how?
Roger Christian did a couple ( pun unintended ) of articles in this years RM on the various 009 couplings available, their strengths and weaknesses and best uses plus tips on assembly. If you are interested I will try to get the dates of the articles. Shame on you Gary for not reading your RM more thoroughly!
Kevan
Thanks for the offer but I have read both the articles in RM. Just wanted to get some advice based on people's actual experience.
Quote from: gazzerk on August 13, 2010, 16:54
Several replies mention stock being used in fixed rakes - could someone please educate me - I assume a rake of wagons are permanently coupled together but how?
My fixed rakes consist of 4 GVT style open wagons (the Parkside Dundas kits). The four are linked with a short length of fine chain, and to do this I drilled a vertical hole through the buffer beam, passed the chain down through it and held it in place with a pin passed through the chain (underneath the buffer beam) and some adhesive. As there is about 4 -5 mm between the buffer beams this is a little fidely to do ( :o) but looks good. The end wagons in the rake then have DG couplings fitted to link with the rest of the stock.
The advantage is that there are less couplings to go wrong and they do look very good. The disadvantage is that they are a bit of a handful to put on the rails (and rerail) as it is quite easy to knock one off whilst putting the others on, nd transporting them can be an issue. It's aslo annoying when the chain breaks as there is not easy way to couple up again (at least not with the way I have done it) as at least with the DG couplings I can remove and replace a damaged unit.
Other 'couplings' could be made from thread to look like hemp or wire rope (but I don't think that this was widely used) or using a linking bar and pins (which I have used on my unfinished Backwoods L&B crane set). I have a feeling that one of the European manufactureres uses this on their stock as semi-perminant couplings whereby you can dismantle ther train to go back into the boxes but it is 'interetsing' when it comes to shunting.
I do not use fixed rakes.
But I have tried in the past.
The problems I have had have been related to propelling a train backwards with chain couplings.
Another problem is that if there is a minor problem with one vehicle, through miss handling at an exhibition for example, the entire rake is a failure.
It also obviously limits your options when it comes to shunting wagons and forming trains but then not many 009 modellers do this any way.
I do not use any tiny four wheel wagons on the layouts regularly but when I do use the Roco wagons they appear to work well enough, provided the couplings are correctly adjusted. They even work ok with the electro magnetic coupling ramps that are all set not to raise enough to hit an axel.
I do agree that the appearance of the 009 couplings is not prototypical but I would go for functionality over appearance every time. (But that is just my preference.)
Brian Meldon
More helpful info - thanks everyone.
One of the replies mentions electro magnetic uncoupling - where do you get magnets from and at what cost?
Thirty-five or more years ago I experimented with some Eggerbahn locos and stock and the then available uncoupling ramps. It wasn't a success - either the uncoupler failed to do anything or it threw the whole train in the air. I quickly gave up and tried 1:43.5 scale later changing to 1:34 and then 1:25 (all on 16,5mm track). For all these later layouts I used the Hornby tension lock coupler modified for delayed action.
In the last year I have built a layout in O9 (7mm scale on 9mm track) and acting on the advice of several modelling friends have used the G&DNGRS couplings. When I looked at the fret I was dubious that (after working in much larger scales) I could get them to work. But the first pair I assembled were fine and I am now enthusiastic about them. I fit the loops to only one end of my stock and a delay pin over the coupling at the other end. They seem to work well with the magnets supplied by G&DNGRS buried between the sleepers.
CP
I think thats the way I will go too CP but might concider electro magnets so that I can turn them on and off at will.
Two layouts that I have use electro magnets to power the lifting ramps. The solenoids are 40mm long WW2 relay coils with about a 40 ohm resistance that are superb electro magnets. They take a small amount of power, do not get hot and do not buzz with DC. The central core is threaded and by adding a bolt (set screw) of the appropriate size the magnetic effect can be extended away from the coil if necessary. I will probably have enough of these for my own use but that
Quote from: gazzerk on August 16, 2010, 17:07
More helpful info - thanks everyone.
One of the replies mentions electro magnetic uncoupling - where do you get magnets from and at what cost?
Have a look at the Model Signal Engineering website. They sell the DG coupling etches (and a couple of other types) and the electromagnets to suit. Cost is about
Quote from: B.Meldon on August 17, 2010, 00:11
However having one of the G&DNGRS magnets that can be moved into position using an electromagnet powered mechanism is an option.
Brian Meldon
As a cheaper alternative any permanent magnet could be moved into position (sliding or raising) by mechanical means. I'm sorry I don't have the articles to hand but both methods have been described in the model press. The raising I seem to remember was performed by a pivoting arm acting on a solid rod, topped by a neodymium magnet about 3-4mm dia, which was contained within a tube of suitable i/d.
I like things that don't cost a lot ;D