Hi All,
In the, grey primer parting company with Shapeways loco thread, in the Locomotives section Tod mentioned:-
"However thinned down brush paint can give a good finish, if you don't have spraying facility. Don't be too heavy handed with the primer, allowing drying time and definitely don't handle it unless with gloves. Fingerprints can also get you into trouble!!!"
My only place for spray painting is a very tiny front garden adjacent to the roadside & I do doubt my dodgy co-ordination and eyesight. Also, awaiting for a day when it is dry and about 20C is getting frustrating as I have now scratch-built 3 coaches and 7 wagons and would like to get on to the painting using acrylics. I wondered what sort of brush paint is recommended and what is the solvent base?
Many thanks,
Lawrence
I haven't painted my plastic rolling stock yet - I am at least as new as you - but will be using acrylics.
I have been brush painting plastic and metal toy soldiers for awhile and I use artist's gesso in black and white as undercoat and mix it if I want a grey. I thin it with water and the brushes wash out with water as they do with acrylics.
I cannot think of a reason for gesso not to work on OO9 rolling stock but others may know differently and warn us both.
Many thanks Derek,
I was unaware of gesso uses other than as a prep. for canvases. My searching on the internet for gesso led me to Vallejo Surface Primer. This is also used on plastic models and can be applied by air-brush or paint brush - equally as good. It has the "ability" to shrink into detailing thus retaining the definition. I have ordered some and will report back.
I have followed your layout decision-making thread with interest. There is so much to know at once with model railwaying. It is really helpful to be able to tap into people's knowledge and experience.
Best wishes,
Lawrence
A couple of quick general thoughts on primer...
When it comes to plastic kits (and scratch builds) I've generally not used any primer, but then I generally use enamel paints and I suspect that the oil based paint on an oil based plastic makes adhesion better than for a water based paint (like acrylic).
That being said I do prime the small number of 3D prints I've had, and generally use Citadel Miniatures sprays (black or white depending on the final colour) on prints and on metal items (including figures). Unlike car spray paint this is designed not to fill in all the small imperfections we would call surface detail, though I can see that for a particularly rough print it may be beneficial! The Citadel stuff also has the advantage of not minding if enamels or acrylics are used over the top.
When it comes to spraying the stuff I pick a dry still day and get all the bits together indoors where it is warm. So that's the large cardboard box that I use as a spray booth (it's flattened so one face forms the base, the other the back and the flaps act as side screens to catch overspray) and a selection of plastic pots that once contained pasta sauce - the pot sits upside down with the model on the lid placed on top as this acts as a turntable. I also prepare boxes - the white plastic ones the Society sells are ideal - for the freshly painted model to go in - and bits of card for the models to sit on so I can move them about without touching the wet paint surface.
The basic technique is to set the box and pots in place (either on top of the wheelie bin in the yard or on the toilet in the outside loo if it's a bit windy, both are just outside the kitchen door), shake the paint can for the requisite 2 minutes then take out the paint and the first model. Spray the underside first then carefully turn it over (trying to avoid any of the wet paint) then spray the top side, then using the card base pick it up and put it on it's drying box and put that back in the house. If I have a couple of models to do then while I'm inside I'll get the next one ready, give the paint another quick shake, then it's back out to spray again.
Whilst I wouldn't try spraying primer when the air is damp, or when it's too cold (below 5 or 6 centigrade?) this works for me and doesn't need to wait for the 6 hours of the year when it's 20+ and still.
Applying a top coat of paint (or finishing coat of varnish) uses much the same techniques, but I would wait for a warmer day (10 degrees or more). This is particularly the case on the rare occasions I get the airbrush out, particularly as it is compressor fed and doesn't have a moisture trap it needs a very dry day!
Once I've finished spraying I invert the can and spray the backboard to clear the nozzle, and the boxes with their models in are placed on the radiator in the workshop (or spare bedroom as MrsW refers to it!) for 24 hours. I also dry any models I've washed (generally brass kits to clear off any flux residues) in the same way.
Quote from: Lawrence on March 05, 2021, 08:54
My searching on the internet for gesso led me to Vallejo Surface Primer. This is also used on plastic models and can be applied by air-brush or paint brush - equally as good. It has the "ability" to shrink into detailing thus retaining the definition. I have ordered some and will report back.
I have followed your layout decision-making thread with interest. There is so much to know at once with model railwaying. It is really helpful to be able to tap into people's knowledge and experience.
Best wishes,
Lawrence
I wasn't aware of Vallejo Surface Primer but I do use Vallejo Model Colour shaken up on a nail varnish shaker (Cheap and Chinese) and a little Liquitex to help 'flow'. I buy from Arcane Scenery online because he doesn't charge postage and he is a nice chap.
This is a good place to get advice I am finding, and it is one of those rare forums where few people find it necessary to write in CAPITALS or
bold. Also, there are some interesting tidbits in the back issues of the OO9 news that are online.
Quote from: Derek Clark on March 05, 2021, 18:47
Quote from: Lawrence on March 05, 2021, 08:54
My searching on the internet for gesso led me to Vallejo Surface Primer. This is also used on plastic models and can be applied by air-brush or paint brush - equally as good. It has the "ability" to shrink into detailing thus retaining the definition. I have ordered some and will report back.
I have followed your layout decision-making thread with interest. There is so much to know at once with model railwaying. It is really helpful to be able to tap into people's knowledge and experience.
Best wishes,
Lawrence
Lawrence
When you say Liquitex, Liquitex what?
I wasn't aware of Vallejo Surface Primer but I do use Vallejo Model Colour shaken up on a nail varnish shaker (Cheap and Chinese) and a little Liquitex to help 'flow'. I buy from Arcane Scenery online because he doesn't charge postage and he is a nice chap.
This is a good place to get advice I am finding, and it is one of those rare forums where few people find it necessary to write in CAPITALS or bold. Also, there are some interesting tidbits in the back issues of the OO9 news that are online.
Quote from: JulienW on March 05, 2021, 10:31
A couple of quick general thoughts on primer...
quote]
Julien, I greatly appreciated your understatement. Your response was a very helpful comprehensive precis of priming technique. Thank you very much for taking the time and yes, as you perhaps surmised, it is very appropriate to my circumstances and requirements. For instance, I do have a wheelie bin or 2!
I am sure many other novices will benefit from your words.
Best wishes
Lawrence
As promised here is a report back upon my experiences of Vallejo Primer. I imagine this will be of more value to novices than the experienced of 009 World.
- Online users say do not shake the bottle but stir it. Vallejo says shake the bottle, so I did. A few bubbles formed that is all.
The nozzle of the bottle has a novel spout that really can dispense a drop at a time - nice.
I only painted with a brush although an air-brush can be used.
I found the paint quickly dried out on the tile I was using as a palette. I soon discovered the merits of a homemade "wet palette". Information on request.
The paint is quite thin and should applied more than thinly but avoiding a build-up of liquid in corners and around features such as rivets. A few bubbles can form around the latter. These should be removed with a light pass of the brush. Otherwise, they will leave a crater on drying.
The first coat looks awful and is very prone to damage. It covers like a very thin continuous membrane. I added 2 more coats at roughly hourly intervals. This are far less delicate. The instructions say to leave for 48 hours for the paint to cure. At which time it can be filed, sanded etc.
I learnt to wash my scratch-built wagons prior to painting – it is amazing just how many flecks of Plasticard reside on the surface.
The paint is marketed as self-levelling and yes, it is! During the drying process it appears to migrate from areas of thicker coverage to areas of thinner.
The grey version is very pale grey. In the palette the paint quickly separates into a heavier white layer and a lighter grey layer. Incomplete re-mixing with the brush results in a slightly patchy result. This doesn't really matter. It is a bit tricky applying such a pale paint on white Plasticard. It pays to work methodically and count the sides of the wagon as you paint. It is easy to paint over an area that is already painted; the brush will damage this. Someone, I read, adds some black acrylic to darken the tone. I tried this and it was a great help. I think this would be better done to the bottle for the sake of uniformity.
The primer is also readily available in black, white and grey. I have read that there are many other colours available.
The paint job is very smooth and fine with little discernible diminution of detail.
Subsequent applications of top coat acrylic paint are smooth and very easy to apply.
I am really pleased with the paint and enjoy the painting process. It fits my snail's pace!
I will, in due course, try the Halford's rattle can. So far it has been windy, rainy, or cold.
Lawrence
I brush paint all my rolling stock, locos, people and buildings - I have never got the hang of spraying.
For plastic I use an undercoat of thinned down matt black (or, increasingly, grey) enamel (Humbrol)
For metal objects I apply (prior to the undercoat) a layer of metal primer (Hammerite) (which is a darkish red and you clean the brush with water)
I find I paint people with acrylics and the rest with enamels (I have not got the hang of using acrylics on large areas)
I use a 10mm wide flat brush for big areas.
I know a lot of people will be holding their hands up in horror at me admitting to not only using enamel paints but Humbrol, too, but I have no problems... (so far)
Here's another "Luddite" in support of Hugh!
I've hardly ever used spray paint - but that doesn't mean it's not the way to go - it simply means I tend to spray the surrounding furniture and self rather than the object, so in my own case I generally always use nothing more than Humbrol enamels.
I have to admit to not being familiar with recent products from Humbrol, which seem to get a bad press, as all of my tins are several years old at the youngest, including those not yet opened!
I give a thin brush painted coat of matt light grey to most models, and matt red oxide (or Humbrol "rust") if I'm going to use a red, such as the lower half of my own coach livery of red and cream coaches, closer to Isle of Man style than anything I suppose. Top coats where possible are also applied with matt paint and then if the model warrants a shine, such as locos and coaches, satin varnish, I very rarely use gloss as in 4mm scale, to my eyes, it is "too" glossy and looks unrealistic.
Hope this helps or at least provides a more old fashioned viewpoint!
Mick
Quote from: Lawrence on March 17, 2021, 20:40
Vallejo says shake the bottle, so I did. A few bubbles formed that is all.
Lawrence
You can buy little glass or plastic beads to put in the bottle. You only need one per bottle and they do agitate the paint nicely.
Haha, I know what you mean Mick by spraying one's self and the surrounding area. I should check some of my Humbrol paints they are over 20 years young.
Robin.
I should check some of my Humbrol paints they are over 20 years young.
Robin.
I inherited quite a few cans of Humbrol enamels from my late father, who died in 1986. Sadly he was prevented from modelling from about 1982 onwards as he was too ill, so the paints must be 40+ years old. Whether they are still usable after all this time I have yet to investigate as I almost exclusively use acryllics these days.
Garry
You can buy little glass or plastic beads to put in the bottle. You only need one per bottle and they do agitate the paint nicely.
[/quote]
Many thanks for this I shall go and investigate.
Lawrence
I normally spray a light coat of halfords rattle can primer, on a warm/warmish day in my garage, just to give an even flat matt surface for the colour coats to adhere to. Followed, if it is a loco, by a coat of humbrol rattle can number 15 dark blue acrylic (my chosen company colour). All other colours are applied by brush (mostly acrylic, matt) & finished off with gloss/satin/matt varnish as necessary. I have had very few problems with the humbrol range. The only noticeable difference is the more recently purchased tubs don't cover as well & require more coats.