The title says it all really, are there any suitable alternatives to the Arnold 0-4-0 chassis to use under an old GEM "Douglas" body kit?
Thanks in advance
jch
The main issue is the small length of the Arnold motor.
All other chassis have longer motor so will not fit at all well in the body.
The N-Drive chassis is one of these with a longer motor, it can be used, with quite a bit of modifications to the body but it will make the body sit way too high above the rails.
I have also seen a Minitrix dock tank 0-6-0 used with the central wheels removed, but I would not recommend this as it looks poor and these tend not to run very well, certainly not as good as an Arnold 0-4-0.
A possible option could be one of the Minitrains chassis with the vertical motor, but I have not seen this done on this kit myself.
Whatever alternative chassis you use the body will need alterations that will need to be done during construction. If the body is already built it will be very difficult indeed to modify to fit another chassis.
I have just built one of these kits as 'Cegin' by removing the side tanks,running frames and with other modifications. I used the correct Arnold 0-4-0 chassis, with the wheel flanges re-profiled so it runs well in peco 009 points. However, I already had the chassis before I got the kit.
This is the approach I would recommend to all modelling these old 009 kits from the 70's and 80's, get the chassis first before you get the kit. The kits are easy to get the chassis are hard to get in good order.
The Arnold chassis can be obtained second hand and I would recommend that is what you use with this kit as any other chassis just do not look right and require significant modifications to the body.
Quote from: John Harris on February 22, 2021, 09:32
The title says it all really, are there any suitable alternatives to the Arnold 0-4-0 chassis to use under an old GEM "Douglas" body kit?
Thanks in advance
jch
I wonder if the new Bachman 'Percy' chassis would do the job?
Note that it just a thought, I haven't done any comparisons between the two...
In any event if attempting to fit a chassis under a kit other than that recommended by the manufacturer I can only echo Brian's comment about it being easier to do as you build the kit, rather than trying to modify a built body.
Quote from: John Harris on February 22, 2021, 09:32
The title says it all really, are there any suitable alternatives to the Arnold 0-4-0 chassis to use under an old GEM "Douglas" body kit?
Thanks in advance
jch
I have a Gem Douglas that was built by Rod Allcock onto an Ibertren 0-4-0 chassis. It is currently packed away so I cannot expand on how this was achieved or if it was a particularly difficult modification but can verify that it makes a fine looking model which in my own opinion looks better proportioned than the originally intended Arnold 0-4-0 chassis.
Mick
Mick
I just noticed ne of those on eBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Ibertren-Cuckoo-0-4-0-N-Gauge-steam-Locomotive-OO9-CHASSIS/333883084467?hash=item4dbcfb8eb3:g:kVQAAOSw5WpgH-AQ
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on February 22, 2021, 22:42
I just noticed ne of those on eBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Ibertren-Cuckoo-0-4-0-N-Gauge-steam-Locomotive-OO9-CHASSIS/333883084467?hash=item4dbcfb8eb3:g:kVQAAOSw5WpgH-AQ
That is a daft price!! Back in the day we purchased 20 (twenty) of these Ibertren chassis direct from the factory for £100. Allowing for inflation that is under £15 each.
They arrived without a body and with the motor unattached as the body holds the motpor down. Each one was in a small plastic bag!
The main issue with the Ibertren is that the axle bearings tent to ware out with use to a point where the gears start to jump teeth. I have had to fit replacement brass sleeve bearings in all the ones I have. The motors can also be a bit hit and miss, some not running at all well in one direction, or both! But as these were very cheap chassis this is not surprising. In the past we treated them as almost a throw away item as they were so cheap!
I think that it may well be cheaper and easier to find an Arnold 0-4-0, probably for about £40 than it would to find an Ibertren.
That said the Arnold flanges are too large for Peco 009 points and need some work to run well as a result.
Quote from: B.Meldon on February 23, 2021, 09:27
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on February 22, 2021, 22:42
I just noticed ne of those on eBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Ibertren-Cuckoo-0-4-0-N-Gauge-steam-Locomotive-OO9-CHASSIS/333883084467?hash=item4dbcfb8eb3:g:kVQAAOSw5WpgH-AQ
That is a daft price!! Back in the day we purchased 20 (twenty) of these Ibertren chassis direct from the factory for £100. Allowing for inflation that is under £15 each.
If you think £79.99 is daft Brian the same seller previously listed this loco (or another Ibertren 0-4-0) for £150...
@ John Harris - if you decide to go down the Ibertren route I would expect to pay between £40 (on a good day) and £60 (for what looks to be a complete loco or 'new old stock' chassis) on eBay. The drawbacks are that the seller's description of 'runs well' may not match with the kind of running most 009 modellers would want and you will not be sure if it's worth the money until it arrives and you have had a chance to test it. To be honest you are buying a chassis that is already 30 or 40 years old, and one that was of dubious quality (see Brian's post) when new.
My gut feeling is that whilst a new Bachman Percy will set out back about £80 you'll have something that should work when you test it on arrival (but before removing the body for any modifications) and if it doesn't can be returned for a replacement (or refund).
The other alternative would be one of the chassis made by N-Drive productions. I know that Neville's lead times can be a bit prolonged (he is a one man band trying to hold down at least 2 other jobs to keep the wolf from the door), but with the variety of combinations of wheelbase, wheel diameter, etc. there may be something that fits Douglas (and the cost will be around the £50 mark). I've got some of his chassis myself and they are very nice runners.
Perhaps these might help...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50972600196_e8c6be91c1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kEgUbq)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50972599861_2b8c75dcd5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kEgU5D)
Both photos show, from top to bottom, the Ibertren 0-4-0, the Arnold 0-4-0 and the Bachmann Percy 0-4-0
Then there are these:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50972599491_2d55bacc10_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kEgTYg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50972705987_3d8b3f59c0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kEhrCp)
Both show the Ibertren (top) with one of the N-Drive chassis that i ordered from Neville as an "Ibertren replacement" and it is in 'DCC-friendly' format (hence the wires). Note that this is as it comes, the large black sections front and back are essentially designed to be cut away (all or in part).
(In both photos the grid is a 10 mm by 10 mm one on the cutting mats).
Hope those help John.
Great photos Julien. Thanks for posting them.
All the Douglas kits I have seen using the N-drive chassis have the body sitting obviously way to high above the rails. It is not just the motor that is taller and difficult to fit in the body, but the top of the cylinders and main chassis block are somewhat higher as well compared to the Arnold. The end resulyt is a loco that looks like it has been jacked up, so it is perhaps not a good option.
It looks like the same may be the case for the Percy chassis, but without measuring from the railhead to the top of the cylinders it is hard to tell. The circuit board will also have to be moved or re-moved.
However, I agree that the Percy chassis would be the best one to go for in terms of running and reliability. It also has one of the modern low current so called coreless motors so it will run on the same DC controllers as all the other new 009 and H0e locos.
Another option could be the Minitrains Boehler chassis?
Quote from: B.Meldon on February 23, 2021, 12:31
Another option could be the Minitrains Boehler chassis?
Just the Boehler or would the Forney, Krauss and "Koppel" also be suitable?
Mick
Quote from: MickT on February 24, 2021, 13:13
Quote from: B.Meldon on February 23, 2021, 12:31
Another option could be the Minitrains Boehler chassis?
Just the Boehler or would the Forney, Krauss and "Koppel" also be suitable?
Mick
I think the vertical motor is too close to the back wheels on the Krauss and Koppel so the cylinders would be too far back on the Douglas kit as a result. The Boehler is not the same and has the motor set further away from the back wheels.
However, I have not measured any of them so neither may be of use!
Thanks Brian, very useful information.
Mick
Apologies for the delay in replying, but thanks to everyone for their helpful responses.
I shall have a "ponder". :-\
jch
Further to my initial question, I have since realised that Hornby own the Arnold brand these days and list Arnold rolling stock and locomotives, both OO9 and TT (sorry for swearing)!
They also list a wide range of Arnold spares on the website, go to Hornby's site and there is a link to Arnold at the bottom.
Thanks again.
jch
Quote from: John Harris on January 22, 2022, 13:19
Further to my initial question, I have since realised that Hornby own the Arnold brand these days and list Arnold rolling stock and locomotives, both OO9 and TT (sorry for swearing)!
They also list a wide range of Arnold spares on the website, go to Hornby's site and there is a link to Arnold at the bottom.
Thanks again.
jch
However, sadly there are no parts listed for the Arnold 0-4-0 or 0-6-0.
This is not surprising as they went out of production over 26 years ago now when the original family owned Arnold company went into bankruptcy and was sold to Rivarossi of Italy.
Rivarossi moved production to China, but this did not include the Arnold 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 only newer Arnold models were produced. In 2003 Rivarossi also went into receivership and the assets including the names and the items produced in China were purchased by Hornby in 2004.
In short it is highly unlikley that Hornby would ever have any spares or indeed ever produce the old Arnold 0-4-0 and 0-6-0.
Thanks you Brian for sharing your knowledge on how things have developed over the years. WIthout it, it can sometimes be very hard to explain what we find today!
Julian