Much of the discussion on the forum regarding the various point motors on the market today seems to date back a while.
Has much changed and what would the recommendations be today for under board point motors with frog switchng contacts?
Hi
1. I have more or less abandoned using any type of solenoid motor.
2. I have used slow acting (tortoise type) motors and been very pleased with them, however I wince at the cost.
3. Latterly I have been using cheap servo motors. These I have been very pleased with, however much more faff.
Personally its a fun thing, I find servos much more entertaining because I enjoy the electronics that go with them.
HTH
Andy
Hello Tim,
There is no right or wrong answer here, only personal preference.
The traditional solenoid motors are a bit fiddly for underboard mounting, but many of us really had no choice in the past and they work reliably once set up properly. I have recently installed a couple of the new Peco Twistlock point motors and, in comparison, they are really simple to install. If I was starting from scratch and wanted to use solenoids, I would choose Peco Twistlocks.
Tortoise motors are, in my experience, very good, but quite expensive and you need a lot of space under the baseboard as they are tall. I've found Fulgurex less relaiable and would steer clear of Conrad point motors, though Hoffmans seem to be OK for our gauge.
There is a new generation of point motors such as the MTB MB1 which friends are really pleased with and I would like to try https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/mp1-point-switch.html (https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/mp1-point-switch.html)
Julian
As Julian says - it's a matter of personal preference.
I have SEEPs under my layout - I have had no issues with them. I use a separate system to ensure power goes to the frogs. (Probably because of that, it means there is more latitude in positioning the motors under the baseboard).
I am currently "playing" with the new PL-1000 (Twistlock) motors from PECO.
(just a personal observation - if PECO wanted users to switch to the new motors, perhaps they could have priced them competitively with their own old PL-10 types?)
That's all useful.
Unfortunately I don't have room to install the new Peco ones with switch contacrt added, or Tortoise for that matter.
I think I wiil give the MTB MP1 a go. At this stage I'm more concerned about ease of use and I'll just have to see how many I can afford and when, they certainly look the part!
I'd also ask the question if you need them at all. My new layout has nine points all worked by rail set into the baseboard with a DPDT switch at the end. Often it can be done with some planning.
I'm rather old fashioned and tight fisted when I've had to use them, just using good old Peco PM10s with their accessory switch without any issues.
I use peco PL-10's with accesory switches and/or peco micro switches.
I also have another layout with rail as rods and spdt switches , much like Blair.
However the main thing is to know what type you are going to use and plan the layout with this in mind.
As you have perhaps found out it is no good building a layout and then finding you have not left the space for the point motors, rods etc. that you want to use!
Quote from: B.Meldon on January 30, 2021, 20:59
I use peco PL-10's with accesory switches and/or peco micro switches.
I also have another layout with rail as rods and spdt switches , much like Blair.
However the main thing is to know what type you are going to use and plan the layout with this in mind.
As you have perhaps found out it is no good building a layout and then finding you have not left the space for the point motors, rods etc. that you want to use!
Brian
I have to some extent been pushed down a certain route regarding my layout. I'm currently in ehat is known as the Clinically Extremely Vulnerable category so absolutely everything has to be sourced from the internet. I have long admired Stuart Hughess Norfolk mini boards and as I have not the capacity at present to build a baseboard my self I have gone down this route. However I am enjoying exploring the many and varied ideas and opinions that the forum throws up. Maybe when I'm further down the build I'll write up my experience for the mag!
Thank for all the advice as always
We'd all appreciate you keeping us up to date with your layout as it progresses.
(I'm also in the CEV category and am under house arrest for the time being. I am looking forward to being let out to buy some materials that I'd prefer not to trust to deliveries)
Quote from: hughn on January 31, 2021, 19:26
(I'm also in the CEV category and am under house arrest for the time being. I am looking forward to being let out to buy some materials that I'd prefer not to trust to deliveries)
I'm not in the CEV category, but I know exactly what you mean about going to the shop in person to buy things.
For the MVR I'm looking for the little 'finishing touches' things and somehow looking at that sort of stuff in an on-line catalogue doesn't quite work, so I'm looking forward to when I can go to a model shop and rummage through their stock to see what takes my eye. As I've no model shops near me, that usually means raiding the shop during a visit to a heritage railway as some of them have excellent stocks of interesting items.
Not directly related but are you a member of MERG? They have PCBs and kits which are very competitively priced for controlling point motors.
https://www.merg.org.uk/
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on February 01, 2021, 00:10
Not directly related but are you a member of MERG? They have PCBs and kits which are very competitively priced for controlling point motors.
https://www.merg.org.uk/
Thanks Stephen, Duly joined
On Avyn-A-Llyin I have used SEEP motor on the front which are now over 30 years old and reliable. However when I had a new fiddle yard built 7 years ago I found the new SEEP motors I fitted unreliable and replaced them with Cobalt iP analogue motors which also have a built in change over switch for the frog polarity and have been fault free in 32 shows including the one at the Great Central in 2017 where it was boiling hot in the tent where the layouts were based.
Blimey, they're great hunks of things!
Quote from: andy1878 on January 30, 2021, 13:30
3. Latterly I have been using cheap servo motors. These I have been very pleased with, however much more faff.
Personally its a fun thing, I find servos much more entertaining because I enjoy the electronics that go with them.
Me too, I have been experimenting with using Arduinos with them. I am still trying to come up with a method for calibrating the throw without using a computer, but you are right that can be fun in its own right.
I am taking a different view. I have had my share of fiddling around under the baseboard. Being tall and short sighted makes it all the harder; positioning one's specs to see is not recommended!! So, I decided to explore the above board option. As I am using DCC I was drawn to the DCC Concepts range of Cobalt SS point motors and controllers (https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/2xcobaltsswithcontrolleraccessories/) . They are not cheap but the motor is small and can be easily hidden under a platelayers hut etc. Furthermore the controller allows me to isolate the trailing routes from the point as well as routing control signals/mimic display board. As with all point motors they are fiddly to set up but the controller gives plenty of scope for adjustments. I am using them in conjunction with wire in tube so I can group the point motors where I want them. am I pleased with the decision? When they work they are great, especially as I can link two (or more) point motors to simplify crossings. Just another point of view and alternative to consider then ...
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on February 11, 2021, 00:03
Me too, I have been experimenting with using Arduinos with them. I am still trying to come up with a method for calibrating the throw without using a computer, but you are right that can be fun in its own right.
Stephen,
You have probably thought of this but you can use three of the analogue pins on an Arduino, two to drive an I2C display and the third to read a simple resistor matrix keypad, say four arrows and an enter button. This will give quite a bit of control and won't use up any of the digital pins.
Frank
Quote from: Frank on May 21, 2021, 09:35
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on February 11, 2021, 00:03
Me too, I have been experimenting with using Arduinos with them. I am still trying to come up with a method for calibrating the throw without using a computer, but you are right that can be fun in its own right.
Stephen,
You have probably thought of this but you can use three of the analogue pins on an Arduino, two to drive an I2C display and the third to read a simple resistor matrix keypad, say four arrows and an enter button. This will give quite a bit of control and won't use up any of the digital pins.
Frank
Something like this perhaps?
https://uk.banggood.com/Keypad-Shield-Blue-Backlight-For-Robot-LCD-1602-Board-Geekcreit-for-Arduino-products-that-work-with-official-Arduino-boards-p-79326.html?cur_warehouse=UK&rmmds=search (https://uk.banggood.com/Keypad-Shield-Blue-Backlight-For-Robot-LCD-1602-Board-Geekcreit-for-Arduino-products-that-work-with-official-Arduino-boards-p-79326.html?cur_warehouse=UK&rmmds=search)
(https://imgaz1.staticbg.com/thumb/large/upload/2012/lidanpo/SKU083549h.JPG.webp)
Perhaps off topic, but i abandoned under-baseboard point motors after a disaster.
I mistakenly obtained lenz point control modules, not realising that they required a seperate AC transformer to supply current to the solenoids.
Being used to the near silent operation of LGB point motors on my garden layout, the loud , near deafening buzzing when a peco motor was' thrown' led to the abandonment of this layout in my shed
I am now in the process of building a layout, soley using Roco/Fleishman track and electronics, controlled by the booster controller that came with a starter set.
It might not look realistic, with the surface mounted motors alongside the points, but at least their opperation is silent.
Quote from: GraemeD on May 21, 2021, 11:28
Quote from: Frank on May 21, 2021, 09:35
Quote from: Stephen Rainsbury on February 11, 2021, 00:03
Me too, I have been experimenting with using Arduinos with them. I am still trying to come up with a method for calibrating the throw without using a computer, but you are right that can be fun in its own right.
Stephen,
You have probably thought of this but you can use three of the analogue pins on an Arduino, two to drive an I2C display and the third to read a simple resistor matrix keypad, say four arrows and an enter button. This will give quite a bit of control and won't use up any of the digital pins.
Frank
Something like this perhaps?
https://uk.banggood.com/Keypad-Shield-Blue-Backlight-For-Robot-LCD-1602-Board-Geekcreit-for-Arduino-products-that-work-with-official-Arduino-boards-p-79326.html?cur_warehouse=UK&rmmds=search (https://uk.banggood.com/Keypad-Shield-Blue-Backlight-For-Robot-LCD-1602-Board-Geekcreit-for-Arduino-products-that-work-with-official-Arduino-boards-p-79326.html?cur_warehouse=UK&rmmds=search)
(https://imgaz1.staticbg.com/thumb/large/upload/2012/lidanpo/SKU083549h.JPG.webp)
Close, but that uses direct access to the display pins so blocks quite a few of the Arduino digital outputs, and it sits across all of the outputs. The alternative is to use an I2C display which only uses two of the analogue pins and no digital ones.
One like this (you can get the two row ones as well):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Youmile-Serial-Module-Shield-Arduino/dp/B07PWWTB94/ref=sr_1_20?dchild=1&keywords=I2c+display&qid=1621624089&sr=8-20
Then you can make a set of buttons like on the one you linked to and connect it to a third analogue input.
Frank