Hi All,
I wonder if you could give me a few scenic tips for further development. First up a hill-side on the 009 line :
(https://i.imgur.com/053Xdcnm.jpg)
Platform end scene (could be extended in front of pick-up)
(https://i.imgur.com/5DoonfMm.jpg?1)
Backdrop to 009 goods yard (opposite station approach). This has a rope-worked incline to the left, but is currently 'open' to falling off the baseboard !
(https://i.imgur.com/4iENosKm.jpg)
Thanks for any ideas /tips etc.
Dave
Plan view of the 009 side which may help. Rope-worked inclined runs from the canal jetty to the upper goods yard on the extreme right of the photo.
(https://i.imgur.com/NR9Cj5l.jpg)
Bridges under development on the elevated 009 line. Both balsa on a ply base. Remaining Girder side to do. Stonework is scribed plaster (polyfilla type) on a polystyrene base (have to keep the weight down as the Contiboard baseboard weighs a ton !).
(https://i.imgur.com/Lzeqz7hl.jpg)
Given the lack of depth between the backscene and the layout I might be tempted to go for a cliff-face behind. But I'd think carefully about the rock type as it makes a big difference to the 'feel' and it's important (for some, anyway!) to get the rock formation and colour right. Is it chalk? - limestone? - slate? - the rock type will tend to locate the layout in a particular part of the country (assuming it's in the UK - but that's true wherever it is) and that location may have a bearing on buildings, too: the types of buildings and the materials used. If these things all match up the layout will have more overall 'coherence'. You also probably need to think about rock strata and their angle(s).
As always, should you go down this path the best thing is to look at photos of real rocks and situations before deciding and going ahead - it will give you more inspiration and help to get the right 'look'.
You might think about a building or some other structure where the red pick-up is to obscure the end of the line.
Just some random thoughts!
David.
Thanks David - some good food for thought here...
I must admit the exposed rock faces in the cutting and leading down to the canal were somewhat random. (They depended on the inspiration of the moment plus whatever was in the paint tray at the time !).
I'm now trying to tie things together with some road vehicles to give the layout extra purpose. Buildings so far are a couple of lineside huts (one is a weighbridge for the rope incline), a Wills kit for the station building (needs weathering plus possibly a change of external brick etc) and a card kit for an engine shed. I often do artistic painting hence a backscene or two would be ok. I think the cliff face would tie in nicely. The 009 goods yard is more problematical as you say due to a general lack of depth, (the price I pay for having a mix of SG and NG on the same layout...!) Maybe a low relief line of sheds, or just a painted backscene would suffice ?
I'm trying not to get things too 'busy' and distracting but, it's a delicate balance isn't it...In the longer term plan is an extension baseboard with a fiddle yard plus a 'continuation' of both lines in front. This may help alleviate some of the cramming (I hope !)
Regards,
Dave
Some low relief buildings would do nicely. They don't have to be entirely parallel to the backscene - some could stand slightly forward of the others for variety, and - looking from above - a sawtooth profile is also a possible variation for all or part.
David.
Low-relief trees or other greenery, almost a decoupage effect, might be an option too.
Graeme - I had to google that ! But, I get the general idea. Thanks.
David - had a bit of inspiration today for a scenic break at the far left-hand side....I think the 'cliff' could merge into a short tunnel before the line disappears into the fiddle yard.
Dave
I was thinking of "3D decoupage" more than the collage-like (2D) decoupage, though that can be very effective too. In the days before photographic backscenes I think it was quite common. The most recent example I saw was a community model railway (mostly non railway modellers) a few years back that was built using donated items. They used cut-outs from calendars, tourist brochures and so on to produce a surprisingly effective background.
Another layout that I've forgotten the name of had a forest backscene with (from back to front): painted trees, cut-out trees set forward a few mm, flattened or "half-trees" in front of that and a few full trees at the front.
Another really good and related trick seen on a number of layouts is forced perspective and a "trompe l'oeil" type effect (needed to google that for the spelling!). A common version has a backscene viewed under a bridge or between buildings. Having something in front to look through or between distracts the eye from the flatness of the backscene and helps force the perspective. It restricts the field of view, stopping your brain doing the mental calculations for vanishing points or whatever.
An even simpler trick is to have a hedge or wall set just in front of the join between the 3D landscape and backscene. Although it is the exact opposite it seems to have a similar effect to a ha-ha in landscape gardening (or perhaps an infinity pool).
Regrettably, Graeme, I failed 'O' level French (at least, I managed to reduce the examiners to hysterics in the oral exam though !).
Yes a trick of the eye, blended and disappearing perspectives sounds good. At the moment, I'm offering up lengths and chunks of white poly packaging to see what will fit. I think the idea of a wall (or hedge) for the 009 goods yard with maybe some low-relief behind will work well.
I'll do a bit of 'suck-it-and-see' hacking and then take a few more shots for evaluation...
Dave
What about a series of walls and fences like they were at the bottom of some gardens, then a backscene set back 1/2" with the houses in the distance and maybe slightly down hill?
Neat idea Stephen.
However, just measured up the clearance beside (and behind) a truck in the goods yard. Short of tearing up and re-laying one siding, it'll just have to be a painted backscene...(or, similar - 2D decoupage type maybe).
Never mind, I can now concentrate on the hill and new tunnel at the other end of the diorama. Still, scope for exercising some artistic skill though (such as it is !).
Dave
Just wondering about the tunnel mouth on the 009 line. This is at the foot of the new cliff and is situated where the line 'disappears' into the fiddle yard.
I have a Hornby short tunnel that I could cut up and use that, or, I could fashion something in grey stone effect (rather like the raised section of the line in the "Bridges" shot...).
Thoughts anyone ?
Dave
I'm fairly sure rock type has a lot to do with appearance. If the the rock is strong and stable rock on a low-cost and low-capacity railway, if it does not need to be lined or have portals, then I doubt the builders would do so.
I'm sure there are better photos, but see -
https://www.leverton.org/tunnels/aberglaslyn/index.html (https://www.leverton.org/tunnels/aberglaslyn/index.html)
Thanks Graeme - very inspirational !
Could be tricky to model but definitely worth a go...
Will post some shots as work progresses.
Regards,
Dave
Your rock faces and retaining walls look good in your photos. It could be something similar - but with a hole in it ;D
How far back the tunnel actually goes depends partly of the viewing angle. Sometimes just the back wall, as the roof of the tunnel and the viewing side are not visible.
Yes, I think I'll continue the existing rock face look 'upwards' with a few grassy tufts here and there.
If it doesn't work out, I'll gouge it off and maybe try a 'slanting slate' type of look instead. I think matching colours could be important though....(Thinks bubble - now, what did I use all those years ago ?!!).
Dave
Started trimming work on the 'cliff face' yesterday - seems incredibly steep and will probably need some safety netting to prevent falling rocks etc getting on the line !
Still, this could add to the realism I suppose...will post some photos soon for you to judge progress.
Dave
It will be interesting to see what you come up with to represent the mesh. On the other hand it could always be very stable rock and never be known to fall. ;)
There may be other methods of retaining rock fall that might be suitable too.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCq7HMZy.jpg&hash=3dff6c2c3eaa1027e9e3b3948a0aeaac648cd8e0)[/img]
Experiments with off-cuts of blue foam for the tunnel mouth scenic break. The idea would be to extend the cliff /rock face down and over the tunnel entrance and then, down again to the canal with similar rock structure. The rest of the cliff /hill will then blend in. (That's the theory anyway !)
Don't know what happened there with the photo - we'll try again...
(https://i.imgur.com/Cq7HMZy.jpg)
Having to lay a short bit of 'in-tunnel' track to link to the base board edge. This should make it easier to subsequently join up to the next board (fiddle yard).
I did consider a short "lifting section" to the tunnel roof but, all the ones I've seen show a join line in the scenery.
Photos to follow once work is recommenced on the tunnel /cliff face proper...
Dave
Given the short distance involved I wouldn't expect it to be an issue. It would be another matter if you could not reach derailed stock easily.
Fair point Graeme. On further thought, it was just easier to make the necessary track base / connections before starting work on the tunnel proper.
Photo of track extension with link to fiddle yard now possible. Tunnel side supports now in - fun bit comes next !
(https://i.imgur.com/CFzYDjjm.jpg)
You could always soften the scenic break with some vegetation on the viewing side to partly obscure the tunnel mouth.
David.
What, and obscure all my beautiful rock artistry David ! (Screams of hysterical laughter....).
Seriously, yes a few bushes, maybe a small tree could work wonders there. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll post a few more photos when such items are 'dry placed' for evaluation.
Cheers,
Dave
Track extension now ballasted and tested for electrical continuity.....MOD diesel on Kato chassis rather a snug fit with the tunnel roof !
PECO James on Grafar 0-6-0 may need a bit more clearance I think. Will probably add some curved card sides to take up excess side clearance, and relieve the roof central portion for taller cabs /chimneys on other 009 locos - making more of an inverted "U" shape but retaining the 'raw rock' feel.
(https://i.imgur.com/4R99UjUm.jpg)
Coming along nicely! If it is a bit snug some carving/blasting should bring the roof down/raise the roof. :D
If it is a tunnel mouth carved directly into the rock it won't be a perfect lintel or arch and if it is going to have a brick/stone/wooden face added to it then what is behind doesn't need to be perfect.
In terms of clearance, I don't have measurements but I think in general clearance is often quite tight at the sides but there is ample or at least sufficient space overhead for the air to move out of the way and for smoke to pass over the train. Also a narrow tunnel should be more stable than a wide one.
Thanks Graeme. Yes, the mouth seems to be progressing upwards and in-wards as I add more bits and pieces. I think I can see how David's ("Clayliner") suggestions will work now as well.
Started work today blending in the nearby cliff/rock structure, adding a few paint streaks here and there just to see the colour match with the other rock faces eg canal sides etc.
I will post some more shots in a few days time for you to get the general feel so far...
Dave
Tunnel mouth looks a bit "Hogwarts" !
Scope for improvement could include :-
Move depth back toward baseboard edge, forwards towards camera, increase hill height (to make it more 'believable'), re-shape mouth, soften with vegetation etc ? Also, not sure about 'blends' with canal drop and cliff back-scene. All ideas welcome...
(https://i.imgur.com/6Gdf7W0m.jpg)
Better photo may help :-
(https://i.imgur.com/6Gdf7W0l.jpg)
Thanks, WALLSHIRTS - I'm making progress, sometimes it's two steps forwards, one step back but, progress (and learning !)
Regards,
Dave
Tunnel depth extended back to (near) baseboard edge - for connection to fiddle yard. Some early painting attempts to colour match rock faces and hill-side blends. Art paper (Bockingford) added to provide some scope for scenic development - road and foot traffic mainly...painted skies and distant hill painting to do. 'Landie' is in "REME" insignia for some reason !
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5B%2F%255Bimg%255D%253Cbr%2520%2F%253E%255Bimg%255Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fzvsl4v6l.jpg&hash=d19262f98d18ac1f41b78bcdff35ffe3392ad557)
(https://i.imgur.com/zvsl4v6l.jpg)