I bought a Clogher locomotive form Fourdees - it is a beautiful model but I made the mistake of not running it for some time. It now does not work - I contacted Dan at Fourdees who was most helpful advising that the chassis, a Kato N Pocket Line often need 'aggressive treatment' to make it work again.
I quote Dan, "Turn the power onto FULL and push the chassis back and forth along the track (pushing down on the track). You will not damage the chassis as it is incredibly simple. It might take a minute or two, but you should find the chassis starts to kick back into life. Once it does, continue to run it on a moderate to high speed to achieve slow running. You might find it easier to do this if you remove the chassis from the body first. End of quote.
I tried this and in my case it hasn't worked I have sent it to Dan for him to take a look.
Dan also advises that the chassis is no longer made and will be replaced at a cost of around £30. HOWEVER the new version may not be backward compatible; again to quote Dan, "it might take some tinkering to get it to fit properly'.
If there is any problem with making the new version fit I imagine there will be people willing to swap or give you the earlier version for for the price of a new one.
The new one is a sweet runner so if it can be made to fit I would go with it!
I have a Kato 'tram' chassis that runs very sweetly - I don't know if it's the same as yours...(4 small wheels ?).
It often goes for months sat in a cupboard - needs a little push initially, then runs fine. I would clean the wheels, check the wheel to pick-ups and run a 12v supply to the motor (assuming body off). A little lube and you should be fine. If it's still in guarantee, I would let them sort it !
Good luck,
Dave
ps Mine is quite 'traction sensitive' - needs a bit of church roof to grip the rails properly.
Hi, I have two Kato powered loco's. One is a heavy white metal steam loco body which runs beautifully and the other a 3d printed diesel body with as much weight as can be crammed in. But is still too light for my liking. The diesel runs really well, but needs the wheels cleaned regularly. I guess it's because of the lack of weight meaning the wheels don't make as good a contact with the rails, making the wheels attract more dirt. However both can be made to run nice and slow. Paul.
The 'older' Kato tram chassis - the 11-103 and 11-104 - are mechanically fairly simple beasties. The motor has a worm on each end of the shaft that engages with a gear moulded onto the axle muff. Each axle muff has a metal wheel with stub axle pressed into the muff, with a pinpoint axle extension on the outside face of each wheel that runs in bearing holes in the moulded plastic side frames. This moulding also includes a 'top cover' that holds the 2 pick up strips that take current from the backs of the wheels to the motor brushes and finally there is a metal 'base plate' attached to the plastic moulding with screws (one at each end) that as far as I can tell gives the chassis a bit of weight but would also keep the worst of the grot out of the moving parts. There should also be a TV suppressor capacitor across the 2 pick up strips.
As they are so simple they can be quite heavily modified- I have one where the length of the plastic moulding has be cut down so much the base plate can no longer be attached but the thing still runs! However they do have a weak point, and that is the pick ups touching the wheel backs have a habit of not doing so, and without adiquate contact between the wheel back and the pick up not getting current to the motor will mean a dead chassis, even more likely given how light the chassis is and that it's is a favourite unit for light 3D printed bodies.
Given that these chassis are so simple I'd suggest popping it out of the loco (not sure how Fourdees have done it but I suspect it is clipped in place) then undoing the two screws holding the base plate in place and removing it. This will allow you to inspect the pick ups and either give them a clean (fine screwdriver, scalpel blade, tweezers or what have you) to get the grot that accumulates out, or give them a tweak (tweezers again or small pliers) to improve their contact against the wheel backs. This last bit may be easier without the wheels in the way, so to take those out gently ease the plastic side frames outwards to release the pin point axle ends the then lift the axle out of the chassis. When putting the axle(s) back in be careful not to crush the pick ups and ensure that they are rubbing on the backs of the metal wheels and not trapped under the treads, and also make sure that the pin points are back in the dimples moulded in the side frames (and not cutting a new one in virgin plastic).
The newer replacements - 11-108 and 11-109 iirc? - have a very different construction. I've not had chance to take one apart myself but based on photos I've seen on the internet (NGRM Online) the new design includes a gear train to drive both axles (rather than a simple worm and wheel on each axle) and a form of compensation (essentialy one side frame is pivoted to allow the axle ends to move up and down to give a 3-point system). Superficially though I thought they both occupied the same envelope so as to be interchangeable, but then without knowing what (if any) mods are made to the chassis in the Fourdees Clogher loco it would be impossible to know exactly what the situation is with respect to the new ones. I suspect though that the newer design is much less forgiving when it comes to having large lumps cut off, and the work may be harder as there seems to be more metal in its construction.
Hope you get things sorted Philip as they are a very nice loco.
These guys have the 109 (103 replacement) at £24 (The 109 is superb and at low voltage creeps along nicely)
https://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Kato-11-109-Ex-11-103-N-Gauge-4-WHEEL-POWERED-MOTORISED-CHASSIS-54mm-&id=10681&manufacturer=%27KATO%20N%20Gauge%27
Seems to be the going rate, Train Trax are the same.
https://www.traintrax.co.uk/
Here's hoping the kits and RTR developed for the earlier version can be updated easily. If it is as good as initial impressions seem to suggest it could be a staple power unit!
The 109 feels like a really solid reliable little unit, no fuss, no frills just a pretty good source of movement, and my 109 is better than my 103 at slow speed, but that was second hand.
If it's any help, I bought a 103 from these people last year:
https://www.n-spoorstore.nl/en/n-spoor/toebehoren/toebehoren-onderstellen?
Delivery was within a couple of days. They still have a few in stock.
I've never had any problems with the Kato tram chassis. I have a dozen of the trams (a little side hobby) and not one has ever need any kind of rough treatment!
Let's hope the 11-103/4 replacement units are as easy to convert to DCC as their predecessors.
The new versions are not identical in size to the old ones.
The plastic motor cover is longer on the new version.
On the old on the motor cover was only 19mm long in the center of the chassis.
In the new version the motor cover is now 36mm long.
The result is the new chassis will not fit is some kits and models that were designed for the old version.
Brian Meldon
How easy would it be to modify that cover?
Here are some photos. From the top: 11-103, 11-109, 11-110 (old locomotive type, new locomotive type, new passenger car type).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49712748446_64858f2bbe_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iJWQ9w)DSCF5648 (https://flic.kr/p/2iJWQ9w) by Graeme Dunbar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/95337893@N05/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49712215293_4bfe01e7b5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iJU6Ee)DSCF5650 (https://flic.kr/p/2iJU6Ee) by Graeme Dunbar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/95337893@N05/), on Flickr
Cutting away any of the plastic cover on the new chassis would expose the large metal blocks underneath.
Thanks for taking the trouble to do these photos Graeme, very useful indeed.
Mick
Thanks Mick.
I don't have an 11-104 (old passenger car version) but I imagine the similarities and differences are equivalent.
The passenger car versions are narrower than the locomotive type (a bit over 15 mm c.f. a touch under 18 mm). Sorry my digital calipers are packed away so measurements are made with company promotional plastic ones.
The end platforms on the 11-110 can be cut off without affecting structural integrity to about 46 mm.
The difference in the black cover in the 11-109 doesn't reach over the ends of the underlying metal block as it does on the 11-110 which suggests it is not needed to hold it in place fore and aft. Therefore it may be possible to shorten both lengthwise to 43 mm, being the length of the metal block.
https://tramfabriek.nl/products/drives.html
An upgrade kit for the 103/4 is another option.
Karl
I purchased one of the new Kato 110 chassis for a new 3D body that was designed for a 104 chassis and found that the 110 didn't fit! After a bit of inspection and some butchery, I mean careful surgery, on the insides of the body I managed to make it fit.
I was so impressed with the improved running of the 110, especially at low speed over Peco 9" settrack points, that I fitted the new chassis to the other 3 locos in my fleet.
Can you say which bits caused problems? I guess every body kit will be different so where the chassis fouled the model you were building could be different to another one but it would be interesting to see if there is any common issues.
The bits which caused the problems were the 'ribs' (for want of a better term) that extended into the inside of the body shell.
Both older Kato tram chassis 103 and 104 can be replaced with a small can motor inserted in a 3d housing. By chance I found this on line store in the Netherlands who sold the replacement can motor and housing together. The one catch is that the worm gears have to be removed from the original kato motor and refitted on the new can motor shaft. For me this was not a problem as I had a minature gear puller. It's not just a drop in after the worm gears are installed. One has to file the 3d housing to make it fit properly as its oversized. My little white metal skylark loco runs beautiful now. Good slow speed in both directions.
Hope this helps.
PS: interestingly, the items were shipped from the UK. The Web sit is in both English and Dutch.
Robin, see Karl's post above. I assume you are referring to Sven's Tramfabriek business?!
https://tramfabriek.nl/
As I am new to the forum and with so much to read, I must have missed Karl's post. Yes you are right it's Sven's business.
Robin.