The dreaded ballasting, you either love it or hate it. I am in the latter camp. So anything that says it will make it easier I will give a try, even if it costs a bit more than the DIY methods. So I've been trying out Deluxe Ballast Bond and Ballast Magic. Here I will post my thoughts of each of them.
I have no contact with the company so this review is purely based on my own use of the products.
First Ballast Bond.
This is a liquid glue, white in colour and very thin. You use it in the same way as PVA/Water/Washing Up Liquid mix. First things first, after talking with others I do not think it is PVA, it seems to have more in common with a Copydex type glue as it sets with a sort of rubbery feel. they don't say what it is made from so unless someone analysis it we won't be able to find out! However it's not that important for the test!
It comes in a plastic bottle, either 100ml or a larger 500ml one. I used the 100ml and it covered about 7 or 8 yards of Peco mainline track. Attached to the bottle is a long thin applicator/tube, similar to those used in Labs I believe. You put the applicator on the end of the bottle and it will come out in drops similar to an eye dropper but with much better control. Squeeze the bottle and it will come out in a continual flow. It makes it very easy to put the liquid where you want it and in the right quantity.
The liquid itself is very thin and flows well into Javis Extra Fine Stone Ballast which is what I used with no clumping. The Javis ballast seems to be proper stone and nice and heavy. I did try it using the lighter stuff produced by Woodlands Scenics and the results were not as good with some clumping.
I left it overnight and it set well.
In summary then:
1. Used with proper stone ballast it works well.
2. The applicator works very well and for those who wish to use similar there are other similar products or Deluxe sell the extension tubes separately.
Overall it does what it says it will do, whether it is worth the extra over home made versions is down to the person. The costs (around
Ballast Magic.
Ballast Magic is a powdered glue which you mix with the ballast and then spray with water. For those of us of a certain age we will remember modellers in the magazines in the '50s and '60s talking of using a powdered glue, usually Cascamite, and mixing it with the ballast and then wetting it after laying the track. This is the same set up. Again I don't know what the glue actually is (and neither does anyone else judging by the speculation on many forums).
Again I bought their "kit" which comes with a plastic bottle of Ballast Magic, a water spray bottle, measured mixing container and stirrer. You put the ballast in the measured mixing container, add enough Ballast Magic on top to create a 1:7 mix (quite easy using the markings on the outside of the container) and then mix thoroughly using the stirrer.
Once mixed you pour it onto the track and bed it in with a soft brush (which you supply!). I found it really useful for doing points where you could lay it and make sure you don't get any in places you shouldn't and I also used it to make up the "shoulders" of the ballast. Once you have got it looking to your satisfaction spray it with water using the spray bottle. The spray is very, very, fine and does not disturb the ballast, even using the lighter stuff.
Again best results were with proper stone ballast, though it did work OK with the light stuff. You need to leave it for 24 hours in a normally heated room to make sure it sets. It does grip quickly but can easily be dislodged before it sets. It's also very sticky and if you try to re-arrange your ballast after wetting it you will remove clumps on the end of your fingers! Don't do it!!
Summary time, then.
1. It does work well, or at least it did for me, looking at other people's comments elsewhere on the Web it seems about 50/50 success rate. Whether that is to do with getting the mix right or using decent stone ballast I am not sure!
2. The spray bottle gives a very fine and gentle spray and is key to getting the water onto the ballast without disturbing it. It works far better than any spray bottle I have used. Again after discussion with others a cheaper alternative may be a perfume spray (when it's run out and you can wash the bottle out, not before!!).
3. As for cheaper alternatives I am not too sure, you can still get Cascamite (or similar named products) but I don't know how they'd work.
4. The mixing container and stirrer could easily be sourced but make sure the container has markings down the side so you can measure the mix accurately.
5. Make sure you leave it at least 24 hours at normal room temperatures to set though.
Again overall it does what it says on the tin, of the two products I was more impressed with this product, it allowed me to position the ballast accurately and didn't move when I sprayed it.
Ballasting? - I use the 'traditional method'.
Very satisfying and therapeutic! (Sorry!)
David.
As i said, David, it's a love it or hate it subject!! ;)
In effect the liquid glue and applicator is just a newer take on the traditional method, whether it is worth the money is purely down to the individual. If you are happy with the way you do it then continue that way. I'd have a look at the tubes, though, if you currently use an eye dropper as they work far better than them.
I think my eye dropper would be difficult to improve upon...!
Of course, your finished ballasting probably looks ten times better than mine, so I'll say no more.
David.
I doubt it!
These are the nozzles suggested by one of the Peter's on NGRM:
https://shop-4-glue.com/glue-applicator-nozzles-ultra-fine-nano-micro-tips-for-glue-adhesives-resin-application-extra-long-751-p.asp
These are the ones sold by Deluxe:
https://deluxematerials.co.uk/collections/all-products/products/roket-glue-tips
This is the result:
(https://i.imgur.com/HlJNcB9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yzDB9dJ.jpg)
Thanks for your comments; very useful!
One further comment, when using the powdered glue when you come to the end of the container you will find all the ballast dust will have got down there and mixed with the glue. This doesn't set well as the water can't get through so either bin it (we are only talking tiny amounts) or pour some more ballast in and mix again.
That's a fine marshalling yard you've built there!
My congratulations in that - as far as I can see - you've been courageous enough to ballast under your points. Some people seem to shy away from this, and clearly there are good reasons to be nervous about it, but in my experience as long as you clean up carefully afterwards and check that everything moves and isn't stuck together then it's fine. And it looks so much better.
David.
Cheeky s*d, this is proper narrow gauge, none of you namby pamby British stuff! ;D
The station has a loading bay on the left and loco shed on the right, the kickback will have a small factory at the top right! :)
I ballasted all the points using Ballast Magic (the powdered glue). That allowed me to position the ballast exactly where I wanted it and the spray doesn't move it. Worked well. It's all laid on cork to raise the rail level.
Once ballast is laid- very fine spray first, I use an old Avon mist spray , then , using a pipette, apply dilute PVA with a drop of detergent. Mask turnouts and ballast separately once the rest has dried.
Works for me in 009, 3mm, 00 and 7mm.
Use ballast from Attwoods Agregates.
Steve
https://dorsetrailwaymodelling.blogspot.com/
I have always found ballasting easy.
I use granite chippings and have a pipettte to deliver the 50/50 pva /water with a drop of washing up liquid.
I find that the granite chippings do not move when the drops of glue are applied, they stay where they were placed.
Hi Guys
I'm looking at purchasing the Bachmann ballest but am a bit confused to witch one to buy can anyone please point me in the right direction particularly if you have a product code that I can use please and thanks
Thanks
Alan
When it comes to ballast most for the OO scale stuff looks over scale so I've always used that labelled as N scale.
As to what colour that's a bit dependent on the type of railway you are modelling. A 'modern' preserved line would use something similar to standard gauge (might even be recycled standard gauge ballast) that is most likely to be granite or limestone. Otherwise the stone would be whatever was available locally, and could be crutches quarried store, shingle (from a beach or river or gravel pit), sand, (similar sources) or what ever else was to hand (some of the WW1 lines supplying the trenches used the rubble from shelled villages they might pass).
As time past and maintenance lapsed on a poorly funded NG line the ballast would disaster under weeds/soil to the point where it would be invisible - I'm thinking of the Talyllyn when the preservationists took over as an example.
Hope that helps...
Quote from: JulienW on June 24, 2022, 19:51
When it comes to ballast most for the OO scale stuff looks over scale so I've always used that labelled as N scale.
As to what colour that's a bit dependent on the type of railway you are modelling. A 'modern' preserved line would use something similar to standard gauge (might even be recycled standard gauge ballast) that is most likely to be granite or limestone. Otherwise the stone would be whatever was available locally, and could be crutches quarried store, shingle (from a beach or river or gravel pit), sand, (similar sources) or what ever else was to hand (some of the WW1 lines supplying the trenches used the rubble from shelled villages they might pass).
As time past and maintenance lapsed on a poorly funded NG line the ballast would disaster under weeds/soil to the point where it would be invisible - I'm thinking of the Talyllyn when the preservationists took over as an example.
Hope that helps...
Hi Julian
Do you have a product number to the stuff you use so I can have a look online that way I should be able to have a look at the colours when I enter the number as the search engine should show a list of them hopefully
Thanks
Alan
Hi Guys,
I should give a bit more detail on what I'm thinking at the moment I don't really model a particular area so more fictional areas so theirs no reason for sticking to particular items although I did do a bit of a search and found an eBay link I appreciate that this might go against the society rules but sometimes it easy to let you see what I'm looking at so the item I seen is listed below sorry admin/committee but is the item worth considering
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114421233312?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=CjwKCAjwwdWVBhA4EiwAjcYJEFW0pvXP7S2OfgL8kTMHP-kJ-esWxkSzYXNcKFF9OsCGUbDAhl1j7hoC1QMQAvD_BwE
Thanks
Alan
I've not seen that type before. (It may have been on the DCC Concepts stand at Glasgow though.) It looks OK.
https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/2mmn-scale-ballast-grey-blend/ (https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/2mmn-scale-ballast-grey-blend/)
The close-up photo looks good.
I agree about choosing the N scale stuff - OO it too big. Also I would choose the lighter colour version as you have. Many manufacturers say it does not go darker when glued down but I'm not convinced. It is a lot easier to darken it if needed by dribbling in some 'dirty water' or very dilute blackish-brownish paint wash.
Quote from: Alan Pollock on June 24, 2022, 22:10
Hi Julian
Do you have a product number to the stuff you use so I can have a look online that way I should be able to have a look at the colours when I enter the number as the search engine should show a list of them hopefully
Thanks
Alan
Unfortunately not, sorry. I bought what I have in stock - finely crushed granite sold as N scale ballast - probably 30 years ago, so the bag has given up the ghost (probably about 20 years ago!) and it now sits in an old margarine tub, it may even be on its second tub by now!
To be honest if you are using 'real' materials - like crushed granite to represent granite ballast - then you shouldn't go far wrong, no matter whose product it is.
When it comes to fixing it down then if you are going to use the traditional 50/50 mix of water and PVA with a dash of washing up liquid then it might be worth adding my observations:
If the washing up liquid is coloured then this will transfer onto the ballast, so,it's better to use a clear colourless one (rather than the green, yellow, red, blue, purple etc that seem to be popular on the supermarket shelves)
If using standard PVA this can dry with a shiny/ glossy finish, and the last thing you want is shines ballast! You could correct this with some weathering (or Matt varnish) once the ballast has dried, but as an alternative to PVA glue I've had good results using water based 'matt media' bought from an art supply shop - brand is fairly unimportant, just get whatever is cheapest.
If you are not quite sure what your ballast is made from try a test piece first. I've come across some stuff that floated - might have been ground cork? - so my usual 'wet' method just didn't work.
I've just checked my stock and most of it is Jarvis Scenics.
http://javis.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2 (http://javis.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.browse&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2)
I don't think there was any special considerations behind the choice. It was probably just what was available that the shop or more likely the exhibition where I bought it.
I'm not convinced by the 'Fairy liquid' green colour theory. I had some supposedly genuine granite ballast and it turned green. It seems unlikely to have been the colour of the liquid as (from memory) I put a drop in some water and then transferred a small amount of the diluted liquid to the water I used to dilute the PVA. I think I remember reading about 'granite' model ballast turning green due to the minerals in it.
I don't know what the stuff I use is made from. It appears to be mineral but is quite lightweight. When spraying to dampen it (plant sprayer/mister) I have to point the sprayer upwards or at least sideways and let the spray drift downwards as the ballast goes everywhere if I aim the sprayer at the track. (I guess I could just spray from further away!)
Quote from: GraemeD on June 25, 2022, 17:52
I'm not convinced by the 'Fairy liquid' green colour theory. I had some supposedly genuine granite ballast and it turned green. It seems unlikely to have been the colour of the liquid as (from memory) I put a drop in some water and then transferred a small amount of the diluted liquid to the water I used to dilute the PVA. I think I remember reading about 'granite' model ballast turning green due to the minerals in it.
That's possible Graeme, knowing that some of the granitic rocks do contain 'interesting' elements - hence the incidence of Radon gas in areas of granite rock - but based on my own experience I didn't get the greenish cast when I used a colourless (ecologically friendly) washing up liquid, but did when I used one of the green cheapo supermarket ones.
I do not use any washing up liquid in the ballasting glue mix,
Instead, the track and ballast is wetted with a spray bottle before applying the glue mix. This is sufficient to break the surface tension of the glue mix (which is what causes clumping) without any washing up liquid.
Admittedly the spray bottle can cause issues as if the spray is too powerful it will push the ballast around. I have a very fine spray mist bottle which used to hold perfume and this moistens the area consistently without disturbing the ballast at all.
Quote from: JulienW on June 27, 2022, 10:51That's possible Graeme, knowing that some of the granitic rocks do contain 'interesting' elements -
Think of all the ores mined on the flanks of granite areas in Devon and Cornwall: tin, lead, copper, tungsten [Hemerdon mine] and so on. I recall seeing distinct green malachite in mainline granite ballast (near Bristol) some years ago. I somehow doubt it would turn model ballast green, though I might well be wrong. Other transition metals could produce a range of interesting colours! (As far as radiation goes, I don't think anyone need worry about granite ballast :) )
David.
I checked this idea with the forum's resident chemist, but I think you could use IPA (Isopropyl alcohol) as the wetting agent instead of washing up liquid.
You'd have to check first that it does not affect the setting time of the glue.
I haven't tried this myself.