Hi All. As a newbie railway modeller I have a couple of things that I'm currently stuck with. By way of background my layout is really a diorama that is getting (got ?) out-of-control...it has two main scenic sections, one a standard gauge (00) line, plus another narrow gauge (009) line. There is also a rope-worked incline that lifts goods from a canal staging up to the NG sidings.
The idea is to work the standard gauge part with a diesel shunter (Bachmann), a steam tank engine (Mainline LNER 581) plus a DMU. Era is thus end of steam /beginning of diesel. The NG line is currently 'worked' with a Farish 08 shunter (N gauge, to be re-bodied) plus something else from the Society.
The two problems :-
1. How to get the body off the Mainline tank engine without damaging it (it was bought cheaply as a non-runner at a show). There are no screws down the chimney but there are 4 screws under the chassis - 2 'central(ish)' and 1 at either end.
2. How to get the body off the Farish 08 shunter. I'm not too bothered about wrecking it but would prefer to save it, in tact, for a friend. The replacement body is "James" from the PECO whitemetal casting kit. The N gauge chassis has 2 screws at the front and another 2 'central(ish)' either side of the protruding gear wheel.
I note from the PECO catalogue that "James" was originally designed for an 0-6-0 pannier tank, and am wondering if I'll have to do any 'mods' to get it to fit the 08 shunter.
Also, if there are any hints /tips on how to get the Mainline tank working these would be greatfully received (brush contacts maybe ?)
Thanks for any help,
Dave
Haven't a clue re the OO loco but the 08 body is secured by the screw underneath the chassis.
Thanks for the reply Hobby - however, there are 4 screws underneath the 08 chassis. It might be the two at the front (just behind the buffer beam) ? The other 2 are either side of the drive gear. I'm reluctant to disturb the latter in case they retain some vital part of the motor /gearbox assembly....perhaps make a start with the front two and see if the body moves ???
Me? - Like Hobby, but for the reason I do continental modelling; the one thing you forgot: Location, Location, Location! ;D
Just kidding. :laugh:
My algorithm:
1. Check internet for download manuals: >brand< >order number< >manual< might turn up the online download for the manual (I file those on my compy as they seem to vanish into the Internet-Nirvana over time); a lot of manufacturers have these today on their web-site!
2. If no luck, replace >manual< with >rebuild<, then >fitting decoder<, etc. and see if somebody already messed around with the loco. If your lucky he'll tell you how the body comes off.
3. Failing above it's time to get serious. Remove all fragile bits to a box for save keeping; if you're very lucky the body is held on by handrails and comes off now.
4. You already mentioned the classic screw location (in the chimney), and the more recent (underside). But there are also the buffers to unscrew or a simple snap-fit. I'll leave the Lima solution (glue it on) aside. To find out which one it is do a close inspection for evidence of snap-fit holes in the body with a chassis part poking through, or, looking from the bottom at the edges, chamfered section in an otherwise square edge.
5. No signs? Look at the buffer ends from the underside: does the body overhang the chassis with its thin wall? If so try to unscrew the buffers. If they revolve, but don't come out, they are press-fit, just pull them out.
6. No luck? Time for the screwdriver: loosen all visible screws by about 1 turn (no more, just enough to get a slight gap between screw head and surface). Check the body is loose, if it is, move carefully watching each screw head in turn; only those which you move by moving the body are of interest. BEFORE undoing them tighten up the others so you don't end up with loose bits falling out. Note that on some engines everything falls apart, i.e. after taking out the screws carefully, always with at least one finger on the base plate (keeper of axles and gears), check that the base plate is not loose. If it is, secure with a serious strapping with sticky tape; they might be spring loaded.
7. No joy? Time to get picky: you want now about 6 to 8 toothpick and a very sharp knife, with the engine upside-down in a cradle. Look for sections where the body buds up against the chassis, price apart with the knife and insert a toothpick; always careful so you don't scratch or break anything. Work your way all around the chassis and the body should become loose; if not it's not a snap-fit and you missed something. Start over again.
8. Look for removable bits, e.g. water-filler covers, engine access panels etc.; a screw might be hidden underneath.
9. Still no joy? Call for help or come around.
Motor not working:
1. Take body off.
2. Feed about 6V (half throttle) with two flying wires from a transformer directly to the brush-holders and observe if the motor moves, or at least tries to move. If it moves you have contact problem, i.e. the current doesn't get from the track to it. If it tries to move you have a jammed gear train or a jammed motor. If there is absolutely no response the motor is probably knackered; likewise if you get a stinking sensation or smoke gets in your eyes. ;D
3. If the brushes can be taken out, remove them and check they are okay; they should be about 3mm or more in length, as otherwise they might jam in the brush-holder stopping the motor working.
4. Try to move the motor shaft by hand; NO, I didn't say wheels or gears, never ever try to move an engine motor by working on the axles or intermediate gears.
5. If the motor doesn't turn it's probably seized and needs replacing. If you can slightly wiggle the anchor, but it doesn't turn the gear-train might be jamming. Remove motor from chassis and check it does turn. If it does refit brushes and hold to wires. If it doesn't turn electrically, but only by hand its knackered.
6. Motor runs, its okay. Try to turn the gear train by hand, it should revolve freely. Without motor and pickups on the wheels the chassis should roll down a 15 degree slope.
7. Now you need to check every gearwheel for defects, either to the teeth (worn or bend), or to the hub (split). For engines with conrods you need to check for binding of the conrods and misaligned wheels (turned) too.
Let us know how you're getting on, and we'll take it from there.
Good luck! ;D
Waldschrat
Quote from: Leprechaun on February 24, 2019, 21:48
but for the reason I do continental modelling;
What's that got to do with it? I've been modelling Continental (specifically Eastern/Central European) Narrow Gauge for over 25 years now and have found British chassis just as useful as European or US chassis... That 08, for instance, goes under an HOe Lyd2 and with an additional axle will eventually power a Resita.
Going back to the OP, you will find that there are five screws in the 08, you can ignore the three on the base plate, they hold the base plate and motor. If you look at the cab end, right behind the buffer beam and hidden in the depths you will see a couple of very small screws, one in each corner, unscrew them, carefully, and the body will come off!
Quote from: Dave Cooper on February 24, 2019, 21:12
Thanks for the reply Hobby - however, there are 4 screws underneath the 08 chassis. It might be the two at the front (just behind the buffer beam) ? The other 2 are either side of the drive gear. I'm reluctant to disturb the latter in case they retain some vital part of the motor /gearbox assembly....perhaps make a start with the front two and see if the body moves ???
Just to confuse the issue there are two versions of the Farish 08!
The newer version is the one with the correct outside frames. This one has 4 small cross head screws (something about the same size as those found in the hinges of spectacles so pretty tiny!). To release the body all 4 need to be undone along with some of the handrails/pipework (just unclip from their fixing holes).
The older type of 08 has the same chassis as the Austerity 0-6-0ST (or J94 class) so is inside frame, and has much bigger screws (8ba iirc). To remove the body undo and remove the two screws at the front (bonnet) end. The chassis should drop out at this point (I've just tried it with one of mine) but there may be a clip arrangement at the cab end of the body - if there is you may need to drop the front end of the chassis from the body and ease the chassis forward in the body to clear the clip at the rear. Which is what I think Hobby said, and as he said try to leave alone the screws on the underside of the chassis itself, as loosening or removing the keeper plate will release the axles and gears...
As to fitting it to the Peco body... It doesn't help that there are a couple of different 'Farish Panniers' out there, and the 94xx is quite a bit longer than the 57xx, which in turn might be bigger than the 08/J94. In that respect it should go in, but to get something that looks 'right' you may want to shorten the body in some way.
Edit - I've never messed in this way with OO stuff so can't really help there, sorry.
You are right, Julien, I missed the two at the front (behind the buffer beam and equally inaccessible) as I was looking at my Lyd2 with the new version 08 o/frame chassis but I only used the two rear mounting screws not all four so forgot about them!
Leprechaun : Thanks for the very comprehensive reply - it's reads like a 'fix-it' manual for all locos !
Hobby : Yes, I can see what you're getting at now. I'll try that on the 08 first.
Location-wise, I'm in North Wilts and don't have any area groups within easy reach, although there is a club in Tetbury and one in Chippenham if I'm really stuck...
Looking more closely at the Mainline tank, there are a couple of body tags just proud of the chassis at the cab end. This may be a clue to further body removal.
Thanks again both, I think I've got a full day's investigation ahead soon ! Will keep you posted.
Hi Julien
Missed your post first time around...
A bit more info on the 08 :-
Box ends say : "No. 1008, 08 Class Diesel, BR Rail Freight" and (on inner flap) CP3002, EN7 1/3 4/99.
Body no. is 08834 and has the 'wasp' stripes either end of body with the modern 'double-arrowed' BR logo.
Price tag says
That sounds like the older inside frame one then it's the two screws behind the buffer beam. It's the same chassis as the J94 saddle tank which is fixed the same way... The new outside frame chassis uses twice as many screws but reduces their size so you have to use a microscope! Progress, eh!!
Dear Hobby,
You might have missed it, but continental modellers build in H0, not 00; and it looks cra
You will find that OO9 modellers use any chassis they can get their hands on, L, whether that is European N, US N, Japanese N or British N so the location of the person is irrelevant. They also quite happily mix OO and HO scale models and they usually look just fine. As most HOe stock is quite large as it's 2ft 6in (750/760mm) gauge prototype people use them for their OO9 layouts. That Liliput diesel shunter is very common on OO9 layouts and looks just great! It's also worth bearing in mind that German and Austrian manufacturers sold many locos to industry in the UK and many British NG industrial locos looked very similar to their European counterparts. Several OO9 kits can be converted into something resembling O&K locos for instance if you want to go the other way, one OO9 kit in particular can be converted into a Czech U25 class 0-4-0T in HOe!
Everyone to their own, it's their choice if they want to mix scales and it's their layout! Rule Number 1 applies! ;)
When it comes to N scale chassis we've dealt with the majority of them, Dave, so if you find another you are not sure of please ask and you will find someone on here who's taken it apart!!
Quote from: Dave Cooper on February 25, 2019, 10:30
Hi Julien
Missed your post first time around...
A bit more info on the 08 :-
Box ends say : "No. 1008, 08 Class Diesel, BR Rail Freight" and (on inner flap) CP3002, EN7 1/3 4/99.
Body no. is 08834 and has the 'wasp' stripes either end of body with the modern 'double-arrowed' BR logo.
Price tag says
It's not too big a job, Julian. You need to glue a block of plasticard where you need the screws to go (look at the N scale body for use as a template) and then drill/tap the screw holes. I've done it on another whitemetal kit and it worked fine. I'm not so sure about the new chassis with it's tiny screws but the old one was a lot easier with those large screws!
Hi All
A quick update on the 08 :-
Yes, 5 minutes with the screw driver releasing the 2 screws behind the front buffer beam did the trick ! There is nothing at all holding the body at the cab end. I used a jeweller's screwdriver set to loosen the screws plus a magnetic set for final release.
I'm going to have a bit of a head-scratch to fit the James body which may involve drilling and tapping the cast metal. Also, I'd like some security at the cab end too with it being more weighty than the N gauge body. (My son is called "James", he has CF and bought the 08 for me, hence, it will be a sort of memento).
I'll leave the 00 loco until I've got more time...but, just for now, many thanks to all for your much valued help.
Dave
A quick response regarding NG Modelling Groups (including 009 as well as all the NG modelling scales!) in your overall geographical area, which I see now that Julien has already partially answered:
1. Wiltshire Group - Centred around the Pewsey area simply because that's where Andy Cundick lives, but has members from all over the county and into Somerset, mainly focused on 009 and associated scales - I know of 2 members who live in the Bristol area (northern part as well I think).
2. BANGERS - (Bristol and Bath Area Narrow Gaugers) Generally Mendips and Bath area. Main focus of interest is US "slim gauge" in both HO and 0 scales and their subdivisions "n3" and "n30" but they welcome anyone interested in NG modelling and meet bi-monthly on Sundays in Claverton Community Hall in the south side of Bath.
3. M5/M50 Group - a large multi interest group covering all the scales from sub-009 through to 16mm. Meet up last Monday of the month in Twyning Village Hall just of Junct 1 of the M50. in the Cheltenham/Tewkesbury region and have members stretching from Bristol area right up to West Midlands generally through the M5 corridor.
4. There is also the very active SWOONS Group - 009-centric but also welcomes any scale NG modellers. Although as the title suggests they are "South West" which generally means the members are from Devon and Somerset, they regulary meet in Taunton which is reachable from North Wiltshire and have members in North Somerset (eg Western SM) and I think across into the Mendip and North Wiltshire region
5. There is also a Wessex Area Group of the 7mm NGA Group who are generally based in the North Wilts region which meets regularly at Collingbourn Kingston near Marlborough
1-4 are regularly reported on with their contact details and meeting timings etc in Branchlines in 009 News and 2, 3 and 5 are regularly reported on with the same in Narrow News which is issued with the Narrow Lines 7mm NGA mag.
Plenty of expert modellers and great fellowship available in your part of the country!
Thanks Mick, Julian and others for the info' on area groups / support etc. I'll have to get the road atlas out and see where I can get to ! Probably, the Bristol /Bath area for the time being as I share a car with my wife and we have to 'synchronise' calendars (seems to work most of the time !).
Dave