While gluing PowerBase magnets to my Fourdees St. John 0-6-0 with superglue I think I've glued the drive train nice and solid. Is there a safe way to dissolve the superglue? I think it's a Graham Farish chassis. What can I do?
When I buy those cheapo packs of super glue in the pound stores they normally come with a tube of "unsticker" stuff but I don't know if that'll work?
Acetone is the thing for softening and removing cyanoacrylate glue, but what effect it might have on the chassis I don't know.
Perhaps just dampening a cotton bud with acetone and rubbing a non-critical and less visible part of the chassis will give an indication its effect. I guess it depends which bits are gummed up. If there is any lubrication on the surfaces the glue may not have bonded tight and is just filling in gaps. If it can be seen and got at, it might be possible to pick away at it with a needle.
Edit: oops dire warning about cotton swaps, acetone and superglue:
https://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Super-Glue (https://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Super-Glue)
Dear Tom,
You're not very specific, so any advice has to come with some caution as it has to be generic:
Most superglues set brittle hard, most plastic materials are ductile. Hence, unless you have flooded your mechanics with superglue you will be able to carefully pick the glue off with a fine needle or bradawl.
Both Acetone (= nail varnish remover) and the 'superglue dissolvers' are highly aggressive solvents; I would only use them as a last resorts as they have the potential of dissolving your plastic, and they are hard to control as to where they go (insulation lacquer on the anchor windings!!!).
You want a jeweller's magnifying glass, or a desk top magnifier (one you don't have to hold in your hand) for the following exercise.
I would, with utmost care try to prise a fine needle or bradawl between chassis and gearwheel flanges to check whether gearwheels are stuck to the frame. Assuming you have lubricated your gear train both frame and gearwheel flange should have been oily, which would have prevented the glue from sticking properly to either; as well as the gearwheels being Nylon, which superglue doesn't stick to well either. :laugh:
With the needle you can carefully prod the individual gear wheels to see which move and which are stuck, so you know where you have to work.
If you can see the glue film try to unpick it from the edge, i.e. don't poke the needle against the plastic material, but slide it along against the edge of the glue film. If the glue film doesn't separate from the plastic, i.e. you haven't managed to exactly hit the joint, slightly lever or pull the needle tip away from the plastic only slightly pushing into the glue. Hopefully you'll have enough engagement between needle and glue to lift the film. At least you will pick some crumbs. Repeat until the film is removed, noting that you can 'grove' the film at 1 to 2mm intervals as the areas in between will most likely spall off (the bond is strained and weakened by shear-forces while you are digging your trenches). :laugh:
If you have glue in the teeth it is crucial to make sure you remove every bit, which is normally rather easier as you can push the needle in from the side and the width is limited. Always go in at the bottom between the teeth as you don't want to touch (!) the teeth flanges. Unless you haven't lubricated your gearwheels any glue lumps will pop off.
The job is finished when you have removed all the glue; as I said, unless especially formulated, cyano-glues are brittle hard, i.e. 'hard' is the operative word: any little crumpets can cause damage if left between static and moving parts.
For the future:
Sticking on bits and pieces use contact glues like Evostick, Patex or Uhu, and follow the instructions; and use a toothpick to apply, that minimises the risk of spills, as in: don't squeeze the bottle/ tube onto you model. Yes, patience is required to let the glue dry before bonding, and than again after joining to leave it bonding. Done properly the bond as practically as strong as superglue. But what's wrong with a little exercise in patience? ;D
More importantly: the glue remains ductile, i.e. is much better at surviving the odd knock; and of course, it is straightforward to 'unbond' with solvent and little mishaps are easily corrected.
If you need more strength use Araldite, which is totally chemical resistant, i.e. impossible to dissolve, once set. But it can be removed with Acetone before it has cured, i.e. a 'rescue' operation is feasible should disaster strike.
If you are adamant you must use 'superglues', the same rule as for ALL glues applies: never squeeze straight from the container onto your joint! Your quantity control is insufficient that way. Always a drop into bottle top or similar rubbish (sweets wrapper etc.), and than with a needle or toothpick onto your model; obviously very quickly in the case of superglue. ;D
But then again: you gets what you pay for. ;D
Hope this helps; let us know how you get on!
Good Luck
Waldschrat
Quote from: Tom Haythornthwaite on January 27, 2019, 09:44
While gluing PowerBase magnets to my Fourdees St. John 0-6-0 with superglue I think I've glued the drive train nice and solid. Is there a safe way to dissolve the superglue? I think it's a Graham Farish chassis. What can I do?
My usual method of breaking down cyanoacrylate is to use Acetone-soaked cotton wool wrapped around the stuck parts. The problem with plastics is that the solvent can set up stresses in the plastic (the chassis is likely to be one of the engineering plastics or be a cross-linked polymer so is unlikely to 'dissolve') so whilst it may get things running the chassis may not do so for very long.
The best way to start is to take apart as much of the chassis as you can as some things - especially the motor - really will not like the acetone treatment. You may find that it is just that one of the axles is stuck rather than the whole thing is glued up solid - though if that is the case you may be better off buying a new Farish chassis and then transferring the steam bits (cylinders, motion) across. I don't know if Fourdees use the RT Models (http://www.rtmodels.co.uk/) bits but Rob Thompson has just re-opened his on-line shop (the link should take you to the new one) to get any replacements (in case you have stuck the resin keeper plate to the chassis and can't get it off in one piece) or the whole shebang to go with the new chassis.
At the end of the day you may find the best option is to get a replacement chassis and change all the parts over.
I think the GF 08's can be purchased for about
Yep you can get them, the S/h stall had one for
Brian, though I am not sure of your logic about
Can you ascertain exactly where the problem is ? I ask this because if it is the o/s frame chassis then only the centre axle is driven from the motor the others being driven by the coupling rods .
So remove the keeper plate and see if there is any give on the outer axles first ,then go for the middle axle .At least this way you can see if the axles or the gears are stuck .( or indeed the coupling rods ) At least if its the outers its a fairly easy job to disconnect the rods , lever out the wheel sets and clean them .
I did the same sort of thing on a 3D chassis produced for me and finally found out that the super glue had flowed on the worm filling in the groove ,which locked everything solid . I used the pin method as described above and managed to get rid of the hardened superglue and all was well .
Well. well, as every chemist ought to know, there isn't a glue that sticks oil and grease very well. ;D
As every engineer ought to know, gears are, with very few exceptions, always either oily or greasy. ;D
And as every engineer ought to know too, it was put together somehow, so there is always a way of taking it apart! ;D
Note, I didn't say without damage! ;D
Simples, to quote a meerkat. ;D
If needle or bradawl don't work that would be the next step: take it apart, at least the glued bits. :laugh:
As for me, I prefer the simple, tried and tested methods, before I go into overkill! :laugh:
Sounds like my dearest's chemical warfare supplier has an older stockpile of nail varnish remover, as hers still contains acetone. ;D
To repeat myself: let us know if and how you succeeded! But buying a replacement chassis is cheating. ;D
Thinks
Waldschrat
Dear Brian,
Not sure whether we both live in the past, or whether we just value money differently? I find the problem with most products these days, the quality is less than satisfactory, but the price they charge makes you expect a lot more for your money. :-\
Scaledale buildings, a price nearly twice that of a comparable polystyrene kit, but detailing that is even below basic (no rain gutters, no down pipes, chimneys missing, the list is endless. Or Scenix, who charge you