I'm not sure if this is the right place for this one, but as it is prototype information I am going for...
I am currently in the early stages of building a new Garratt locomotive for the Nechells Governement Railway. Nechells (pronounced 'Ney-shells', not Neetshulls like the suburb of Birmingham) is an island somewhere in the Indian Ocean, and has an extensive 2' 6" gauge railway network. The loco in question is a 4-8-4 + 4-8-4, and would have been built by Beyer Peacock inthe 1930's, but I am unsure about how big the cylinders should be. The donor parts (a Kitmaster LMS garratt - don't tell the collectors!) came with a pair of LMS Black Five cylinders, which are something like 18" diameter and 28" stroke. I was intending to use these on the 2'6" / 009 loco (which will have 3' / 12 mm drivers), but wonder if the stroke to wheel diameter ratio (28:36) is a little excessive and I need to shorten the cylinder casings somewhat.
Is there a presidence for a full size 2'6" gauge loco with such a long stroke, and if not what were the largest cylinders used on the gauge?
Hi Julien,
because you've taken my favourite route -freelancing (YESSS!!!) you've got carte blanche for this!
Have a look here and follow the links:
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/develop.html
which is the ultimate steam page.
there's a link to the railway in Argentina who are doing interesting things with new build n.g. Garratts here:
http://www.trendelfindelmundo.com.ar/tfm_base_en.html
while closer to home, the Bure Valley Railway are doing extraordinary things with ZB class derived designs; many of the improvements are in cylinders (basically, the bigger the better) and front end designs.
So I'm guessing that this can give you plenty of inspiration for your own Garratt.
Hope this helps,
Best wishes,
Dave.
I agree!
It's a Garratt so follow their philosophy and build it as big as the loading gauge will allow (and get yourself another ASBO on a well-known layout!). Make sure it's suitable to use on Simon's layout thought!
As for the collectors - that's tough - it's your loco now! (Anyway, they should be pleased - this takes another Kitmaster kit out of the gene pool so the perfect ones in the boxes will be worth more!)
I imagine it'd make an impressive 5.5mm loco as well...
Of course it will!
I'm just waiting for Julien to see the light and abandon 009 for 5.5mm scale..................
TT mechs, more detail without your eyes crossing, lots of scratchbuilding potential.........
All right officer, I'll come quietly................. :o
Dave.
David,
Just what TT mechs did you have in mind? There has never seemed to be the same range of useful TT chassis for OOn3 and 5.5 mm locos, in contrast to N gauge chassis for OO9 locos. Mainly a problem with the ratio of wheel diameter to wheelbase, I think.
Richard
Julien,
Prototype practice seems to have settled on a piston stroke of around half the wheel diameter. So your projected loco, with 3 ft wheels, would have a stroke of 18 ins. Piston diameter is usually less than the stroke, say 12 ins in this case.
The other way is to look at a prototype with similar dimensions, as this will guide you towards the wheel and cylinder combinations generally used.
Finally, watch out for loading gauge! Those big cylinders are going to be chewing up the scenery! This is just as much a consideration for a practical loco, as power, weight and drawbar pull.
I look forward to seeing the result, but please excuse me if I don't invite it to Pagham Harbour. Our loading gauge is not small, but your creation is likely to exceed it by a fair margin!
Richard
Quote from: Richard Glover on July 24, 2008, 12:00
I look forward to seeing the result, but please excuse me if I don't invite it to Pagham Harbour. Our loading gauge is not small, but your creation is likely to exceed it by a fair margin!
Richard
Don't worry Richard, one of my locos ('Victoria', a MDC 2-8-0 narrowed from 10.5 mm gauge to 9 mm) already has scars on the cylinder casing along with an ASBO for exceeding the loading gauge on John de Fraysinet's layout!
As to Dave suggestion of 5.5 mm - I think I'll stick with the Londonderry & Lough Swilly on 00n3. OK, so Worsley do a couple of kits for the locos and coaching stock, but nearly all of the goods stock will need to be scratck built (or kitbashed), and I'll need a lot of goods stock for the average Swilly train!
(hmm... ::) 4 mm scale Swilly 4-8-4 running on 9 mm gauge... :o NURSE, the red pills - and QUICKLY please!!!)
Quote from: Richard Glover on July 23, 2008, 13:00
David,
Just what TT mechs did you have in mind? There has never seemed to be the same range of useful TT chassis for OOn3 and 5.5 mm locos, in contrast to N gauge chassis for OO9 locos. Mainly a problem with the ratio of wheel diameter to wheelbase, I think.
Richard
Hi Richard,
well I still use Triang chassis (there, I've said it and I'M GLAD!!! :P), but I've also looked at Berlinerbahn/Tillig power which obviously have slightly finer wheelsets and lovely valve gear. Items crop up on Ebay from time to time.
Of course, there's also Mike Chinery, who as well as being a 5.5mm mech supremo (Double Fairlie chassis, Prince and Dolgoch mechs), also does a nice line in 12mm motor bogies and more for 00n3.
You can see examples of his stuff here:
http://www.blackhamtransfers.com/55/MikeChinMech/index.html
and he's always happy to chat about any ideas you have in mind for your own designs.
Dave. ;D
Quote from: JulienW on July 25, 2008, 10:23
As to Dave suggestion of 5.5 mm - I think I'll stick with the Londonderry & Lough Swilly on 00n3. OK, so Worsley do a couple of kits for the locos and coaching stock, but nearly all of the goods stock will need to be scratck built (or kitbashed), and I'll need a lot of goods stock for the average Swilly train!
Actually it's not that bad; use a 4mm RTR chassis, Worsley do a body kit or you can model bash your own, whilst Paul Titmuss has built T & D stock from his own card kits. As I've pointed out in the 55 News (should I really be discussing this here I wonder? ???) modern computer technology allows you to rescale drawings easily, print them up on card and make your own card kits for stock relatively easily.
Shades of the old ERG kits of yesteryear.....
Alright, I'll get me coat...........
Dave.
:D
Quote from: detheridge on July 30, 2008, 13:10
Actually it's not that bad; use a 4mm RTR chassis, Worsley do a body kit or you can model bash your own, whilst Paul Titmuss has built T & D stock from his own card kits. As I've pointed out in the 55 News (should I really be discussing this here I wonder? ???) modern computer technology allows you to rescale drawings easily, print them up on card and make your own card kits for stock relatively easily.
Shades of the old ERG kits of yesteryear.....
Alright, I'll get me coat...........
Dave.
:D
I think that part of the issue for me is that I am too committed (in many senses of the word ;D ) to 4 mm scale. Currently I have stock for 9, 12, 18.83 and 28 mm gauges in 4 mm scale, along with an experimental 10.5 mm length of track for 4 mm scale (I know its not quite right for 2' 8" gauge) and a set of track gauges for 6 mm gauge (and 2 mm association standards) for some 18 " gauge museings with a Chivers "woolwich" kit :o
I know that may qualify me for one of those jackets which does up at the back, but I'll just have to stick it in the wardrobe with the others...
To come back to the start, I made some dummy cylinders (using styrene tube) for "The Beast" based on the measurements for the 18" by 28" originals but shortened to look more like 18" stroke. Funilly enough, these look a litle more sensible than the white metal castings I had originally planned to use, so I've knocked up the remaining 3. Just need to sort out the rest of it now.
Most of the work will be in the chassis for the power units. These have been reversed so the motor is tucked under the tanks and I have fitted outside frames and axle extentions. Front and rear pony trucks have been made (she's going to be a 4-8-2 + 2-8-4 as it looks better in my view) and I'm working out the details for fitting. The cylinders will also need finishing and fitting, along with some sort of valve gear.
I may be some time...
To be fair to 5.5mm, Tillig produce a very wide selection of steam chassis and it tends to run much better than the N gauge stuff in my experience as well as being widely available on ebay! In addition Bullants can be made to 12mm, as can many other kit built chassis - in fact the choice is very little different to 009....
Going back to the OP, I wonder if these locos had the same sized cylinders all round Julien? I'm thinking that if it was coumpounded then some may be bigger than others.... but I'm no expert on them... ask Ian Turner, perhaps??! ;)
There were very few compound Garrats in fact in 'proper' narrow gauge there were only two I think K1 and K2 of the North East Dundas Tramway in Tasmania. Bits of both now reside in North Wales.
Quote from: Charlie4472 on August 19, 2008, 07:49
There were very few compound Garrats in fact in 'proper' narrow gauge there were only two I think K1 and K2 of the North East Dundas Tramway in Tasmania. Bits of both now reside in North Wales.
As one loco ;D
There was also at least one compound Garrat built for use in Burma (on meter gauge?), but mine will be simple...
i.e. 'not compound' as opposed to 'easy'