Can anyone help?
I am building my first 009 layout, using Peco 009 flexible track and points. The loco and trucks perform OK, but I am having terrible trouble with my Peco "Lynton and Barnstaple" coaches. They keep derailing on the points - especially leading points, but sometimes trailing points as well. They also come uncoupled where the gradient changes.
I've re-aligned some points and put extra pins in to stop them moving when the point motors operate, but still have problems.
The rules that apply for 009 track laying are no different than any other gauge.
It must be laid flat and not move.
It must not be pinned down in such a way that it distorts the track.
Gradients must be gradual and never immediately before or after pointwork. This applies especially to track joints also.
If the same vehicles are causing problems each time then check the wheel back to backs. The track itself may not be true to gauge so check that as well. If wheels & track are both OK then the fault must be with the track plan - reverse curves can often be problematic.
Couplings locking up on curves can also cause derailments. Needless to say the couplings should also be at the same height and be compatible with each other.
Going through pointwork at excessive speed will result in derailments - just as it will on the real thing.
Odd bits of loose ballast caught in check-rails or stuck to the wheels have been known to occur despite having checked everything before running.
If all else fails then seek the advice of someone who is an expert at Feng Shui or maybe an exorcist :-)
The moving point work is concerning, it shouldn't.
So:
How are your solenoids connected to the tie bar and what sort of solenoids are they? Why are they moving the point? what is the sub structure?
I have recently installed two Peco points with above base board PL10 on the proper mounting plate driven by Cobalt DCC CDU decoders ADS-2fx
https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/universal-dcc-decoder-cdu-solenoid-drive-2-way-added-features/
First up I used the Peco supplied linkage between the mounting plate and the tie bar. Performance was frankly appalling.
The track work is firmly pinned into plywood using no more than the provided pin holes and the throw and force of the solenoid caused the linkage to jump off the tie bar nipple. Any amount of adjusting and restraining of the linkage failed to improve reliability.
After observation I concluded that the motor travel was too much for the point work. So I replaced the linkage bar with a omega loop. Bingo - first time and every time. The omega loop is rigid enough for the push/pull but is flexible enough to take in the disparate movement at each end.
An alternative would be an arrangement like that shown by Gtmspyder in the Glen Ogle thread at
http://www.009society.com/forum/index.php?topic=1123.390 the third photo down on page 27
you can see a length of springy wire from the actuator to the tie bar, mind you these old H&M solenoids with a decent CDU will move insecure point work across the room.
Post with the arrangement you are using and I'm sure this forum will deliver.
HTH
Andy
Quote from: DeadHorse on January 04, 2017, 00:10
The rules that apply for 009 track laying are no different than any other gauge.
It must be laid flat and not move.
It must not be pinned down in such a way that it distorts the track.
Gradients must be gradual and never immediately before or after pointwork. This applies especially to track joints also.
You can do gradients immediately after pointwork, I've done it and it works reliably everytime. It's also on a curve!
Having said all that, there are some very important caveats:
1. Take your time... It took me several days (well evenings)
2. Test, test, test! Use your longest wheelbase rolling stock (loco and coaches),, dig up the stock that keeps going wrong
3. Make it a very smooth transition, I used a lot of track pins in the transition, virtually every other sleeper has one
4. Be prepared to rip it up, adjust and put back again.
But I guess that applies to all trackwork!
Please also note that the Peco 009 12 inch and Y points made before 2010 have some gauging and geometry issues than can result in derailments. They can be adapted, but these days I would not recommend it at all, just use the points made after 2010.
Brian Meldon
Quote from: Allscales on January 07, 2017, 13:03
You can do gradients immediately after pointwork, I've done it and it works reliably everytime. It's also on a curve!
I'm willing to bet you didnt start your gradient 'immediately after pointwork' as that would have distorted the fishplates.
I would guess you left at least 1cm level before starting to bend the track.
Nope! Straight after... The curvature is maybe a little less..
I would happily post a photo, but the layout is in storage and not somewhere conducive to being photographed. So I'll save your eyesight for now!
If 1:1 modelling (the RhB) is willing to start slopes right beyond the point blades (Alp Gr
Quote from: Allscales on January 09, 2017, 21:14
Nope! Straight after... The curvature is maybe a little less..
I would happily post a photo, but the layout is in storage and not somewhere conducive to being photographed. So I'll save your eyesight for now!
If 1:1 modelling (the RhB) is willing to start slopes right beyond the point blades (Alp Gr
Since there is no "Like" button, I will add that I agree with Brian. Another aspect of the prototype is that they have suspension, which helps ensure all wheels stay on the rails when encountering changes in - gradient (pitch); side to side (yaw); and direction! Our models (009 in particular) have rigid suspension :)
Quote from: Elmgate on January 13, 2017, 10:53
Our models (009 in particular) have rigid suspension
To a point. Four wheel stock in particular. Commercial locomotive chassis generally have significant play in the wheels. Bogies on stock are often quite floppy/sloppy in their attachment to the floor of the stock. Bogies and pony trucks on locomotives go along just for the ride and rarely if ever bear any load. Come to think of it, even with four wheel stock there is often a bit of "rattle"in the needle-point bearings . It is not compensation, but it is not particularly rigid either.
My experience is limited to a couple of Nigel Lawton chassis, but I suspect the trickiest chassis are the scratch-built ones with close-running uncompensated top-hat bearings. They are indeed rigid.
Some commercial chassis have really quite cunning designs. I think it is the Kato 11-106 Shorty bogie chassis has needlepoint axles in pressed metal cups that (if you will excuse the mental image) are reminiscent of Madonna's infamous bra. They are quite clever in the way in which the joining strip acts like a sort of torsion bar.
Another thing I've wondered is if in cases where the pickups act on the top of the wheel rather than the back it helps keep wheels on the track by acting as a sort of bottomed-out suspension?
I was only using the RhB as a real world example...
What I built was a slope up from the diverging track. This is a curve of about 30cm radius.... the tracks start nearly straight to minimise the kink, so the rail joiners hold it together and in alignment.
The slope starts very gently, hence a large number nails, all used to create a very smooth transition from the flat to the slope. The nails were tapped into place very slowly and one by one...
After each nail was considered semi-OK, I tested with four wheeled coaches and a Liliput U class (all HOe), RhB stock. It just took a long time to sort...
Let me try and get some photo's, but if you were at Kegworth, then you may have already seen it, as I brought the layout with me...
Quote from: Allscales on January 13, 2017, 20:47
I was only using the RhB as a real world example...
What I built was a slope up from the diverging track. This is a curve of about 30cm radius.... the tracks start nearly straight to minimise the kink, so the rail joiners hold it together and in alignment.
The slope starts very gently, hence a large number nails, all used to create a very smooth transition from the flat to the slope. The nails were tapped into place very slowly and one by one...
After each nail was considered semi-OK, I tested with four wheeled coaches and a Liliput U class (all HOe), RhB stock. It just took a long time to sort...
Let me try and get some photo's, but if you were at Kegworth, then you may have already seen it, as I brought the layout with me...
It is a good idea to pre drill the plastic sleepers before you push any pins through them. This is because the pins can cause the sleepers to distort and the gauge to widen where the pins are located.
A very simple way to get a good transition from level to a grade is to use a 6mm plywood track bed. You will find that the wood will naturally bend to form a transition grade.
Brian Meldon
Brian Meldon