Hi all,
Since being on here I've found loads of stuff that isd of interest to me personally and as a modeller for other people.
So I thought I'd better set out a workbench - then you can see what I get up to!
First though....
Help!
Latest thing to come over my workbench.....
Parkside Dundas - DM40 - Welsh Highland Railway bogie coach
The kit is to make into a model of 'Bro Madog Eisteddfod' as it currently is.
I have scoured the internet and have only a few photos to go on.
Does anyone on here have photos they would be happy to share?
They will be very helpful when it gets to the painting and lettering stage!
In the meantime - I'll get the thing built!
Thanks
Hi, I've only just noticed this, hope I'm not too late to be on help but here's a pic of the BME coach I took at the WHHR back in the summer.....
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh66%2Fsthargraves%2FDSC_1449_zpslegj4pbm.jpg&hash=771704e0e96ca505548f51141cc36e5607b8118c) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/sthargraves/media/DSC_1449_zpslegj4pbm.jpg.html)
Interior....
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh66%2Fsthargraves%2FDSC_1484_zpsckug44wi.jpg&hash=3fb0be43ca1b39d0edeaeaabf306c37a4aa29f67) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/sthargraves/media/DSC_1484_zpsckug44wi.jpg.html)(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh66%2Fsthargraves%2F_20160719_101945_zpspnvoi61a.jpg&hash=be67d1234011a650aa71c7e865aae6f821367b29) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/sthargraves/media/_20160719_101945_zpspnvoi61a.jpg.html)
The kit has no toplights.
Hi Simon,
Thanks for the photos - they will be a great help.
I actually started on the coach body last night.
So far....
Yes - I know the kit as supplied doesn't have toplights - but why should that stop me doing the model?
I've managed to cut out some of the toplights, half of one side that is, without ruining the coach side.
So - still got to do the rest of the first side and the whole of the other side!
Photos once things progress a bit further.
Thanks
I'm glad that the photos are of use; as you may have guessed, a lot of my photos taken when out and about are for modelling purposes.
I must admit that until you pointed it out, I hadn't noticed the lack of toplights.......
I wonder whether this was done to make the bodyside mouldings stronger? Or perhaps the coach was originally built without toplights? Perhaps someone expert in these matters can enlighten us!
Mine, when I eventually build it, will stay as it is because it's going to be built as a freelance railcar for which I already have a Tomytec chassis.
Another detail difference is that the door nearest to the ex-VoR brake van also has a half-door adjacent to it; this is to enable wheelchair access (and indeed on one of my rides it was used for that purpose), though again this feature may have been added after the vehicle was built.
Somewhat scarily, the BME coach is now approaching 30years old!
All the best with your build,
Cheers,
Simon.
Quote from: Simon Hargraves on December 15, 2016, 21:22
I'm glad that the photos are of use; as you may have guessed, a lot of my photos taken when out and about are for modelling purposes.
I must admit that until you pointed it out, I hadn't noticed the lack of toplights.......
I wonder whether this was done to make the bodyside mouldings stronger? Or perhaps the coach was originally built without toplights? Perhaps someone expert in these matters can enlighten us!
Mine, when I eventually build it, will stay as it is because it's going to be built as a freelance railcar for which I already have a Tomytec chassis.
Another detail difference is that the door nearest to the ex-VoR brake van also has a half-door adjacent to it; this is to enable wheelchair access (and indeed on one of my rides it was used for that purpose), though again this feature may have been added after the vehicle was built.
Somewhat scarily, the BME coach is now approaching 30years old!
All the best with your build,
Cheers,
Simon.
Hi Simon,
Follow the trail back to the website for the Welsh Highland...
You will find an explanation!
Yes - the coach originally did not have toplight windows.
When it was rebuilt/refurbished it gained them.
I've managed to do the whole of one side now.
It does make the coachside much more fragile and easily damaged.
To get round that I'm adding a strengthening bar to the roof so that the top edge of the coach side is supported.
Now - need to keep on drilling and cutting on the other side.
Then - need to sort out the lettering as it is to represent the coach 'as it is today' or whatever day the person I'm doing it for has in mind.
Thanks
Please note that the Parkside model also does not depict the coach doors as it is today.
It depicts the coach before it was modified for disabled access with the addition of extra doors at one end as seen in Simon's first photo above.
I must say that having spent some time working on the railway I do not like this coach!
The main reason is that there are so many windows to clean each morning and quite a few of them have sanding paper scratches.
All the tables and seat supports make it a pain to sweep clean and mop, the drop glass windows can be problematic as well and the brass does not polish up as good as on the other coaches or even the VOR van!
That said it is an attractive looking coach with disabled access and is popular with the passengers.
Brian Meldon
Quote from: B.Meldon on December 16, 2016, 10:32
Please note that the Parkside model also does not depict the coach doors as it is today.
It depicts the coach before it was modified for disabled access with the addition of extra doors at one end as seen in Simon's first photo above.
I must say that having spent some time working on the railway I do not like this coach!
The main reason is that there are so many windows to clean each morning and quite a few of them have sanding paper scratches.
All the tables and seat supports make it a pain to sweep clean and mop, the drop glass windows can be problematic as well and the brass does not polish up as good as on the other coaches or even the VOR van!
That said it is an attractive looking coach with disabled access and is popular with the passengers.
Brian Meldon
/quote
Hi Brian,
If you have read my posting you will have seen that I am well aware of what the kit is meant to portray.
Plus I did say I was modifying the bodysides in at least 2 places.
Thanks
It makes a close match to the Gladstone coach that ran the original Welsh Highland. It can also be bashed into several other reasonable variations of workmans and other stock. Quite a few modellers have turned out presentable railcars from this kit. I like it a lot :-)
I'm impressed that you have managed to cut toplights out from the available material.
Quote from: DeadHorse on December 17, 2016, 03:30
It makes a close match to the Gladstone coach that ran the original Welsh Highland. It can also be bashed into several other reasonable variations of workmans and other stock. Quite a few modellers have turned out presentable railcars from this kit. I like it a lot :-)
I'm impressed that you have managed to cut toplights out from the available material.
Hi there,
I was going to put some photos up tonight - but......
Had to stop just now as I managed to put the drill through the plastic and my finger in one easy move!
Blood - everywhere! Who would have thought it from a drill size 0.45mm.
Typing one handed is a pain!
How did I make a start on cutting the toplights?
I am fortunate that I have access to a lathe and vertical milling machine which has a compound table.
I used the compound table to hold the plastic coach side and then set a scriber in the lathe or milling head (or use a 4 jaw chuck if you have one).
This allowed me to scribe lines into the plastic with a great deal of accuracy.
The panel we are going to cut holes in is only 2.6mm high!
First scribe was 0.5mm from top of coach side
Second was 1.0mm from top of coach side
Third was 2.0mm from top of coach side
This gives you guidelines for the top and bottom of the toplight holes.
Leave the plastic kit side in the compound table - no point in moving it as you will lose the accurate position and measurements you have just gained!
You can now use this set up to help you drill a series of accurate holes along the scribed lines.
Replace the scriber with a good quality, new or freshly sharpened, drill bit, does size matter here?
Yes - I always use a bit that is slightly smaller than the width of the scribed line - that way you should never be going outside the guide lines.
Please note - this is not done by machine - that would be far to rough, I simply hand rotate the drill.
Now - that then leaves the question - How did I manage to drill through the plastic into my finger?
Because of the size of piece we are working on it isn't possible to get into every corner to drill when the plastic side is on the table.
This is when you have to hold the side and drill out the rest of the guide holes with a pin vice and drill.
That's how I managed to do it!
Anyway - I am hopefull that I will put some photos up tomorrow.
In the meantime - Information needed....
Is the door for wheelchair access the same on both sides of the coach?
Thanks
I hardly think that having a tiny hole in your finger is grounds for needing wheelchair access! :laugh:
Quote from: DeadHorse on December 18, 2016, 22:52
I hardly think that having a tiny hole in your finger is grounds for needing wheelchair access! :laugh:
;D
Hi all,
Back to the model tonight...
I see that when I tried to pull my finger away from the drill and model that I have damaged and broken what would have been the body work above the toplights.
Never mind, just means more work to resolve it.
In view of the damage I added a strip of plasticard to the inside of the coach side where the toplights are.
This means I have to drill more holes!
Anyway - It's now 3 hours later and I have done the job.
Who would have guessed that making holes in a model was more difficult than filling them in.
Photos.....
Hi all,
Been a bit quiet on here - not that that means I've not been doing things though.
Achieved quite a lot over the Lockdown period and now ready to start sharing some images.
So - to follow shortly......
In addition, I'm just about to get going on some more DHR stuff - this time it's for myself.
I decided a long time ago that I would build Rangtong as a 009 layout - so that's where things will start.
A slight diversion though!
As I typed this a parcel arrived from India!
More on that later as well.
Thanks
Phil H
Looking forward to some photos of your DHR. I like anything in Indian narrow gauge.
A parcel from India! must be a goods wagon? Just a wild guess.
Robin.
Quote from: Robin Webster on November 01, 2021, 19:15
Looking forward to some photos of your DHR. I like anything in Indian narrow gauge.
A parcel from India! must be a goods wagon? Just a wild guess.
Robin.
Hi Robin,
Thanks for the interest - much appreciated.
A parcel from India contained 4 smaller boxes!
More to be revealed once I've had a proper look.....
Thanks
Phil H
Hi guys,
The parcel......
Contained 4 smaller boxes!
Just had a quick look at the contents - very impressed with what I found.
Looking forward to getting on with building them.
Thanks
Phil H
Just a quick suggestion if I may - might it be worth doing a kit review for 009 News, or at least passing some information on to our TLO Ben Powell?
Quote from: JulienW on November 02, 2021, 09:12
Just a quick suggestion if I may - might it be worth doing a kit review for 009 News, or at least passing some information on to our TLO Ben Powell?
Hi Julien,
Artilcle for The News - I'll have a go at that as I get the build(s) going'
Info will go to TLO shortly - as well as being included on this thread.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
Busy morning!
Boxes opened and contents closely inspected.
The little box above the models contains the bogies, wheels, axles and other bits needed.
Only things extra will be handrail wire, paint and varnish, plus superglue to stick the bits together
Now to read the instructions!
Not sure if any more progress today - have Docs appointment later.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
I find I am very short on prototype photos of these 3 coaches.
That would be 364, 154 and 921 or any of the same type coaches?
Anyone have any they would be willing to share?
I have plenty photos of the vans at various times and in several liveries - so that's me ready to set to work on them.
So - the vans first it is!
Thanks
Phil H
You could try contacting David Chuchill who is the DHRS Modelling coordinator via https://www.dhrs.org/page23.html
Quote from: JulienW on November 03, 2021, 09:09
You could try contacting David Chuchill who is the DHRS Modelling coordinator via https://www.dhrs.org/page23.html
Hi Julien,
Yes - all ready aware of David and in contact on several queries/ideas
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
Thanks for the help and contacts - much appreciated.
OK - I have some photos now and will get on with the modelling....
I've already started with a bit of prep work and gaining familiarity with the suggested construction process.
Clean up - what clean up!
It's good to see stuff from 3D print that does not take hours to prep, next to no residue from the print process, next to no surface prep, no damaged prints.
Just how it should be!
I've gone through all the kits I have and prepped the lot - it only took 40 minutes for 3 coaches and 2 vans!
I like the fact that each model body only has 4 or 6 parts ie body, chassis, 2 couplings and 2 brake pipes - certainly keeps it simple.
Bogies for the coaches are one piece as well.
That leaves us with - wheels and axles.
Whilst it's great to get everything in the box, I'm not sure about this aspect of the kit.
Wheels have to be finished off to the standard you want and then fitted to the axles - all parts are 3d printed.
This would be fine for a static or shelf model, but I want my models to run!
So, it's time to replace the 3d bits with metal wheels and axles to suit the standards you work to.
That's not quite as easy as I had thought it would be - finding replacement axles is easy, not so for the wheels.
The 3d print wheels come out at 8.5mm and there do not appear to be any wheels of that size available.
I'll compomise with some 8mm wheels that I have in my box and see if that means I need to do modifications to raise the running height'
On my models it will be the coupling height and level/ground clearance that will make the difference.
I'll have more on that once I see how it all works out.
I'll also have some suggestions for slight changes in the assembly process which at some point in the future may make things easier if modifications are needed.
Thanks
Phil H
I'm looking forward to the build. Yes, I can see the challenges regards wheels and couplings. I don't think there are many modelers in india. What little I've seen it appears to be all Marklin HO.
I guess when he started this project in India his intent was for static models only. Interestingly he produces models in both Hoe and 009.
Robin.
I'd love more information and photos of those DHL vans.... but will wait patiently for them to appear in the Trade Liaison section of our NEWS!
Quote from: Tom Haythornthwaite on November 08, 2021, 10:30
I'd love more information and photos of those DHL vans.... but will wait patiently for them to appear in the Trade Liaison section of our NEWS!
Hi Tom,
Photos to follow later today/this evening.
I've done one to the stage that it's ready to paint and am working on the other at the moment.
In the meantime, for those that asked, a sketch showing the dimensions of the model.
If you have the DHRS Wagons book you will be able to compare!
Thanks
Phil H
DHR C Type Van – Chassis build inc modifications
This is the DHR C Type Van chassis as supplied with the kit. (Photo 1)
As it is it will be fine if you follow the instructions and want a static, display model. For those of us who want a running model, there are a couple of modifications that need to be done – not to the body, but to the chassis.
First modification is to the inner sides of the W Irons where there is a moulded lip that helps retain the 3D printed wheels and axles. ( Photo 2)
I've set the pointer to the area that I am referring to and that is what needs removed and made flush with the inner face of the W Iron. This needs to be done on all the W Irons. (Photo 3, 4)
In addition to this it is essential to cut a shallow V into the bottom part of the W Iron as this enables the pinpoint of the axles to be fitted more easily into the W Irons. (Photo 5, 6)
Wheels and axles as supplied with the kit. These are 9mm diameter and used for static/display models (Photo 7)
Replacement wheels and axles. These are sourced from whoever has them available! I've never found any 9mm diameter wheels and axles and decided after testing that I didn't need to use that size anyway. So, back to searching suppliers to get some wheels to suit. In the end I settled on the Mathiesons Models 8mm disc's on 15mm axles as they fitted nicely and run well. Now that the chassis modification have been done you can fit the replacement wheels and axles to the model. (Photo 8)
Completed, modified chassis fitted with replacement wheelsets/axles (Photo 9)
Photos also show the additional modification I made to the chassis in the quest for simplicity and future proofing in case of running problems. (Photo 10)
In order to make the chassis fit once the coupling mouldings are attached to the body. This is the cutout visible at both ends of the chassis.
So, that's it for the chassis modifications, just leaving the small amount of work to do on the body that needs to be done before the body and chassis can visit the paintshop.
Next time - a visit to the paint shop - shades of brown.....
This is super Phil. I like the work you have done. Just out of curiosity, could not one of those peco n scale kits fit as a chassis replacement instead of the 3d print.
I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas. :)
Robin.
Quote from: Robin Webster on November 09, 2021, 05:43
This is super Phil. I like the work you have done. Just out of curiosity, could not one of those peco n scale kits fit as a chassis replacement instead of the 3d print.
I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas. :)
Robin.
Hi Robin,
Thanks for the comments - much appreciated.
If you want to you - Yes - you couild use a Peco chassis - but why add to the cost of doing things when what you are supplied works with a minimal extra cost of replacement wheelsets?
I got 10 8mm wheelsets for £12.50 - so for £2.50 additional cost per wagon, you get a great runner!
I did use the NGS Journal tool to make sure the bearing surface was correct - just in case, but I didn't have to deepen them as the 15mm axle length is exactly correct.
Vans are in the paint shop - primer coat drying nicely.
I'll start on the coach bodies later and see how far I go.
I expect there will be similar modifications to ensure they run smoothly.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
Well - I have made some progress - but not a lot!
It's all due to other commitments - emdical and not just mine...
Anyway,
Vans are finished except for couplings - I'll be posting something on that in the next couple of days.
In between all the medical stuff....
I've managed to keep on going with the coaches - I'll be posting on that in the next couple of days.
I'm at the stage where I am looking at photos and videos trying to see inside the coaches so I know what colours are used on the interiors. If I thought finding photos of coaches was difficult - finding interior photos is even more so!
In addition I've been doing some other bits that were lying about waiting for bits/materials to complete them - I'll also do a posting on that but probably not until the weekend.
I've also made a start on doing stuff for the new layout - Rangtong/Rongtong but that's mainly messing about with drawings and templates to get an idea of what it will look like and how it would operate.
Thanks
Phil H
Phil, if you are interested there is a video on you tube titled,"Darjeeling Himalayan Railway first run after Covid time journey in a vista dome coach" It's in Hindi or Urdu. In the first 3 to 8 minutes one gets to see a few seconds of the creamy interior wall colour and elaborate seats in two tone grey.
Some other video's I saw have the seats as a saddle brown and another as a dark grey green. These are all fleeting seconds of some one's video. I know it's not much to go on.
Robin.
Quote from: Robin Webster on November 18, 2021, 06:23
Phil, if you are interested there is a video on you tube titled,"Darjeeling Himalayan Railway first run after Covid time journey in a vista dome coach" It's in Hindi or Urdu. In the first 3 to 8 minutes one gets to see a few seconds of the creamy interior wall colour and elaborate seats in two tone grey.
Some other video's I saw have the seats as a saddle brown and another as a dark grey green. These are all fleeting seconds of some one's video. I know it's not much to go on.
Robin.
Hi Robin
Could you please post a link to your video on YouTube please and thanks
Thanks
Alan
Quote from: Robin Webster on November 18, 2021, 06:23
Phil, if you are interested there is a video on you tube titled,"Darjeeling Himalayan Railway first run after Covid time journey in a vista dome coach" It's in Hindi or Urdu. In the first 3 to 8 minutes one gets to see a few seconds of the creamy interior wall colour and elaborate seats in two tone grey.
Some other video's I saw have the seats as a saddle brown and another as a dark grey green. These are all fleeting seconds of some one's video. I know it's not much to go on.
Robin.
Hi Robin,
Yes - I'm tracking videos like this, but, as you say, the exposure time showing what I need to know is very small.
Thanks for the comments - I've started colour notes for the coaches I'm doing and will include them when I do the coach build write up.
Phil H
Quote from: Alan Pollock on November 18, 2021, 09:17
Quote from: Robin Webster on November 18, 2021, 06:23
Phil, if you are interested there is a video on you tube titled,"Darjeeling Himalayan Railway first run after Covid time journey in a vista dome coach" It's in Hindi or Urdu. In the first 3 to 8 minutes one gets to see a few seconds of the creamy interior wall colour and elaborate seats in two tone grey.
Some other video's I saw have the seats as a saddle brown and another as a dark grey green. These are all fleeting seconds of some one's video. I know it's not much to go on.
Robin.
Hi Robin
Could you please post a link to your video on YouTube please and thanks
Thanks
Alan
Hi Alan,
I think this is one of those videos on You Tube that helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJgvG99lmjw
There are several with similar titles though!
Phil H
Quote from: Scottish Modeller on November 18, 2021, 09:56
Quote from: Alan Pollock on November 18, 2021, 09:17
Quote from: Robin Webster on November 18, 2021, 06:23
Phil, if you are interested there is a video on you tube titled,"Darjeeling Himalayan Railway first run after Covid time journey in a vista dome coach" It's in Hindi or Urdu. In the first 3 to 8 minutes one gets to see a few seconds of the creamy interior wall colour and elaborate seats in two tone grey.
Some other video's I saw have the seats as a saddle brown and another as a dark grey green. These are all fleeting seconds of some one's video. I know it's not much to go on.
Robin.
Hi Robin
Thanks for your reply I thought you where talking about a model and had videos of it on YouTube
Thanks
Alan
Hi Robin
Could you please post a link to your video on YouTube please and thanks
Thanks
Alan
Hi Alan,
I think this is one of those videos on You Tube that helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJgvG99lmjw
There are several with similar titles though!
Phil H
https://youtu.be/HMTJfBIYPw0
At around the 5 minute mark he takes you into a second class coach and shows you around. He pans his camera, and focuses onto the toilet door which I think is the best lit for good colour representation.
I was looking at Humbrol colours and this is what I came up with.
Trainer yellow.
Linen.
Both would have to be diluted with white.
I'm quite sure there may be some other model paint manufactures out there who may have a closer match.
Robin.
(It wouldn't be Urdu there. The locals speak Bengali and Nepali but maybe the host is from elsewhere in India, speaking Hindi.)
Hi all,
I've made a start on the coach interiors and should have something to show later.
The AC coach interior/chassis is in the dryer at present with first attempts at the colour scheme.
I'm also working on adding the interior roof detail.
I've done a drawing to scale and will start making it this evening.
Yes - I know it's not really visible from normal viewing level, but it seems strange for it not to be there, I'm also experimenting with material for the curtains as they are visible from outside.
Thanks
Phil H
I'm looking forward to the finished coaches Phil. I found another video where the 2nd class seats are red brown. Matches the Tamiya red brown. I know there are many variations of seat coverings.
As far as curtains go, I experimented with tea bags. If a fresh bag with its contents removed on gets a white colour, if used, then one gets a dusty tarpaulin, which can be further altered.
Robin.
Hi Robin,
Photos to follow - paint isn't quite dry yet.
The curtains for the 1st Class AC Coaches are DHR Blue as are the antimacassars.
The antimacassars have the dHR logo on them and I'll try to recreate that as well.
Photo of drawing/artwork for interior roof details attached.
I'll copy this in plasticard/sections to make the one that will go in the coach.
Thanks
Phil H
Phil you got the colour just as I saw in the video. Super! Lots of neat detail. Good stuff!
Hi all,
Lack of progress on the coaches today - caused by paint problems as masking tape started lifting to topcoat.
Not sure why, all done with my usual equipment, methods and paints/thinners.
Can only put it down to weather and humidity/temperature when sprayed.
Started working on the internals for all the coaches - all painted and now drying in the dryer.
A fair bit of searching to get confirmation that the 2 AC coaches are 925 and 927 but eventually found a video the showed the numbers clearly..
Interior details of the AC coach are beginning to appear as well!
I started with 3 hours spent making 12 curtains, 2 hours designing the internal structure, AC pods and glazing. Then a while deciding how to get the curtains to stay in the right position once inside the coach.
Tested the running ability of the coach chassis and happy that they run freely, level and sit square on the track.
More after the next attempt at the paint jobs!
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
Paint issue resolved.....
Not all acrylic thinners are the same it seems....
So - a fresh batch of acrylic paint mixed with the same makers acrylic thinners resolved the situation.
New coats of paint applied, low tack masking tape this time and remember to use the same for the guiding mask for the decals when I get back to that stage.
More or less sorted the interior of the AC coach - or so I thought.
I now have photos of 923, 925 and 927! Thanks for the help via modellers/DHR fans in India and DHRS David.
Whilst I was studying photos of the coaches (to make sure that I put the decals in the right places) I was struck by something else and now have queries about which coach the kit represents.
The window sizes/positions appear different and also the window and vents for the AC compartment to be different as well.
Then crunch - photos of 925 show that the sc pod on the roof is at the opposite end of the coach to that on 927!
Decide that 927 is the nearest as made - More photos required really.
Now, time to have a rethink and work out how to make the model more like the real thing.
Which is a real shame when I've just repainted it!
Thanks
Phil H
Edit to update number series
Hi all,
Back to my AC Coaches dilemma!
Grasping the nettle and showing the elephant in the room....
The PMW AC Coach body as supplied is not correct for any of the actual coaches.
From the various photos and videos I now have there are some major issues.
1) Door windows as modelled are wrong shape
2) Windows as modelled are single pane openings when the real thing has double pane openings
3) Window as modelled to the AC Compartment is wrong size/position
4) Vent as modelled to the AC compartment is wrong shape and/or style
There are some variations between the various coaches, but I've not found any of them have the features as modelled.
What to do?
Not made my mind up. busy thinking through the options.
More photos would be useful though!
Thanks
Phil H
Just enjoy the models you have Phil. I am quite sure most of us would not know the difference. I was like that once in a different manner. I could not have 009 and Ho run together. I use to bother me to no end. Now I don't care as long as I enjoy the moment and my models.
Robin.
Quote from: Robin Webster on November 27, 2021, 20:22
Just enjoy the models you have Phil. I am quite sure most of us would not know the difference. I was like that once in a different manner. I could not have 009 and Ho run together. I use to bother me to no end. Now I don't care as long as I enjoy the moment and my models.
Robin.
Hi Robin,
No worries - I'm always up for a challenge!
I'm just drawing up the changes I think are needed and will send it on to PMW and see what happens.
Changing the shape of the door windows is relatively simple - cut and shape then add external frame that holds the glazing on the real thing.
Similar solution to the AC compartment window and vent - but they seem to be different on each of the real coaches.
Adding a horizontal window bar to each of the side windows will be a challenge as the existing verticle window bars are the most vulnerable bits of the 3D print.
Back to Google search for photos and to YouTube for videos.
Screen capture the right coaches off the videos and then match size to the model.
Thanks
Phil H
ps - I always enjoy my modelling - even when things are not quite right.
Hi all,
To illustrate what I am on about with the DHR AC Coaches
Model of AC Coach as supplied as a 3D Print
Photo of AC Coach 925
Photo of AC Coach 927
I know I don't have the same side for both the coaches - I hve what I could find or has been supplied to me.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
Made a start of resolving the differences between the AC coach model as supplied and the real things.
First though - difference between the real AC coaches.
There are several differences between 925 and 927 - some more obvious than others.
1) Door windows as modelled are wrong shape
2) Windows as modelled are single pane openings when the real thing has double pane openings
3) Window as modelled to the AC Compartment is wrong size/position
4) Vent as modelled to the AC compartment is wrong shape and/or style
5) Roof AC pod is at different end on each coach.
925 has the AC pod at the door end of the coach
927 has it at the AC compartment end of the coach
See photos above for comparison
For 5) - we will have to live with it as it's a one piece body print.
See photo
For 1), 2), 3) and 4) there are solutions and I'll cover them in the following posts
Hi all,
Following one as per previous entry with the following
1) Door windows as modelled are wrong shape
2) Windows as modelled are single pane openings when the real thing has double pane openings
3) Window as modelled to the AC Compartment is wrong size/position
4) Vent as modelled to the AC compartment is wrong shape and/or style
So- First up for modifications?
I'll start with the modification that has the biggest visual impact - in my opinion at least.
2) Carriage side windows are double pane openings - not single pane as on the model.
How to resolve this is actually quite simple - or as simple as making 10 cuts in a 3D printed material can be!
Follow the photos to see how I did this
Photo 1a - Mark existing vertical window bars 3mm down from the top horizontal bar
Photo 2a - Cut out 1.5mm from below the line you have marked
Photo 3a - Cut and Insert 1.8mm by 1.8mm square section 85mm long
Photo 4a - Repeat for the other side of the coach
And that's it - one of the major corrections done
In the next post I'll look at the other major visible difference - the carriage door window.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
As per previous - moving on to the next thing to correct
1) Door windows as modelled are wrong shape
Still working on the best way to do this as each coach has differences
From looking at the photos of the coaches the nearest coach to the model is 927.
This has oblong windows with rounded corners asnd not the eclipital ones that the model as supplied has.
But, how to do it? Is there an easy way or not?
There isn't sufficient space in the moulding to simply cut a new shape to the window.
So, cut out a larger area and insert a filler piece, then cut the right shape of window into it.
Sounds easy! Well it's not and part of that is due to the brittle nature of the 3D printed resin.
I'll update this with photos once I remember to take them. Done!
Thanks
Phil H
edit to add photos
So - having filled in the door window area - what nest?
I'll leave the cutting of the new shape door windows for now as cutting the holes may make the body vulnerable to damage when handled.
3) Windows as modelled to the AC Compartment is wrong size/position
4) Vent as modelled to the AC compartment is wrong shape and/or style
It's that time again!
Check photos before you start cutting and shaping.
More after I've done that and worked out the correct sizes/positions for modelling 927.
Photos to follow once I take them.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
Big intake of breath and some deep thoughts about the PMW AC Coach.
Also an exchange of emails with David Churchill on the subject (thanks David - I think).
The bad news?
The PMW coach as supplied is incorrect and not just in the areas I've already gone through on here.
OK - those are errors that can be corrected relatively easily, but....
There are some problems that will either take too much correcting or are not correctable - depending on your level of commitment and skills - makng the model into something that is as correct as possible.
Both sides of the coach have been modelled wrongly
1) The door and window shape as commented previously, plus the door is not inset into the coach side as deeply as it should be
2) The number of windows on the coach side - 6 instead of 5
3) Doors have been modelled at the same end of the coach - should be at opposite ends
Hopefully this makes it more clear to all?
I'll be going back to the guys at PMW and see waht they want to do - I don't know if they will redo the drawings and make a better job of the model, but, if they know, then that is up to them.
What will I do with mine?
Not sure yet if I just have a chop up job to try and correct it or wait to see what the guys decide to do.
If I carve one up to correct things it will result in an intrinsically weak bodied coach model.
Other thoughts - anyone with any ideas - feel free to jump in!
Phil H
Hi all,
Another day - another box of stuff!
This time is full of 3D printed stuff from Westhill Works.
DHR Class A plus selection of Leeds Forge wagons.
These are all for the heritage period build I have in progress.
So, for the Class A loco I need to find the chassis.
Minitrains 1001 Fiddletown & Copperopolis Locomotive
But, it seems no one has any in stock.
I'd take a complete model but cannot find one to buy.
Unless someone on here knows better?
Or has one they would be willing to sell on.
Just let me know!
Thanks
Phil H
Phil, you have put a lot of work into a coach that has quite a few printed defects. Trying to correct it might create other issues. If it were me, I would finish it and mark DHR "AC Experimental" That way it can still be enjoyed in a rake.
Minitrains Germany still have painted and printed models of the Fiddletown & Copperoplis locomotives. If your looking for just a chassis, that I think will be difficult. On the other hand I could be wrong.
Robin.
I wonder if the issues with the coach are differences between 'official' drawings and what the workshop (Tindaria or elsewhere) actually built...
That's a very strong possibility. Based on the fantastic book wtitten by Terry Martin ( Halfway to heaven) he makes mention of modifications made to locos and rolling with no records kept by the shed/s.
Robin.
Quote from: JulienW on December 03, 2021, 09:58
I wonder if the issues with the coach are differences between 'official' drawings and what the workshop (Tindaria or elsewhere) actually built...
Hi Robin,
From past experience I doubt it - but who knows?
I had similar problems when I did my drawings for the card models of the DHR Coaches.
If it wasn't for contacts in and around Darjeeling I would never have known, I sent them my drawings and they came back to me with any errors I had created so that I could correct the drawings.
I would expect that the problem stems from assumptions that one side will be the inverse of the other - making that assumptions saves time and effort as you don't need to do a drawing for each side - draw one side then flip it over.
Anyway - I've made the decision and the coach as was done is now in pieces!
The roof, ends and most of one side are OK - just need the window, door and AC Compartment mods done.
The other side is the problem as the side needs cut into 4 pieces and the piecs repositioned to get as close to the real thing as possible.
As a result - I've resurrected my unfinished drawings for this coach type and will use that as a template to guide me.
I'll post the drawing up here once it's done.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
Drawings of coach sides as jpg - original drawing file is too large to put on here.
I've extracted the coach side drawings from one of my original coach drawings - no need to show any underframe/chassis bits for this one!
I'll print off a copy and use it as a template to cut the coach body up with.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
Still an ongoing work.....
Sometimes things don't quite work out how you expected them to!
Now, what did I think I was trying to do?
Anyway - cutting attemoted and failed - resin shattered whilst being cut.
This is what's left......
Phil H
Unfortunately I was expecting that Phil! Is there anything that can salvaged and glued back together?
Quote from: Robin Webster on December 07, 2021, 11:34
Unfortunately I was expecting that Phil! Is there anything that can salvaged and glued back together?
Hi Robin,
It was my own fault - I made an error with blade selection for the jewellers saw - to deep a blade. If I had used a more shallow blade the stress would not have occured and caused the shatter.
I could put some of the bits back together, but is it worth it?
I was doing the cutting so that I could change the positions of the door on one side and make the AC Compartment window and vent the correct size on the other.
I'll use my drawing as a template over 40thou plasticard, then drill out and cut the windows to be the correct number and size.
Then its a case of sticking the full side in place - the coach ends and underside of the roof edge provide the best contact points to ensure a good solid join to be made.
I've started the sides already - on the drawing board having the windows positions scribed onto the plastic.
Doing it this way will also enable me to have the door set back from the coach side to the correct depth.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
While the PMW kits are filling up that workbench - other stuff is progressing on one of my other wrkbenches!
So - On the heavy metal workbench.....
DHR Heritage/Charter Train - Coaches
DHR have some stock that, rightly, in view of their ages, are classed as Heritage and/or Charter Train Coaches.
Thia project is to try and create that rake of coaches in 009
The rake will comprise the following:-
DHR 14 - 'Everest' Observation Car
DHR 149 - 'Tensing Norgay' Dining Car
DHR 124 - 'Himalayan Princess' - Inspection Saloon
Of these 14 and 149 are available as etches from Worsley Works
Hoever, 124 is more of a challenge as no kit is available, this one will be a scratchbuild project.
So, first on the workbench will be Everest with it's challenging roof profile, end shapes etc.
More to follow as things progress.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
The work on the PMW coaches and vns has carried on and, with the exception of the AC Coach, i have some completed models to show.
Still working on the couplings though!
A series of photos - coaches to start with!
DHR 2nd Class 364
Thanks
Phil H
Note.....
The model is not 100% correct as it has been modelled with the wrong sort of window - rounded corner type, where the real coaches have squared corner type.
This is a shame - especially when the model of 154 that has been done has the squared corner type.
More feedback for the makers.....
Hi all,
More DHR - PMW Coaches (again).
DHR 154 - Coach-Luggage-Gaurd
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
Bring on the vans!
DHR Type C Van
Thanks
Phil H
Phil they really look good. I like the goods/ freight wagons in particular as i like to shunt my stock. I say that very loosely having not even progressed with what I have/ had started.
Stuff gets in the way and the moment is lost.
I would be interested to see what couplers you use to hook them up.
Now that I know through Julian that there is another option besides Greenwich couplers which would allow one to shunt I will looking into that.
Stay safe!
Robin.
Hi Robin,
Comments as per your entry.....
Quote from: Robin Webster on December 28, 2021, 10:51
Phil they really look good. I like the goods/ freight wagons in particular as i like to shunt my stock. I say that very loosely having not even progressed with what I have/ had started.
Yes - Freight stock can make a big difference to the appearance of a model. I have more vans to follow shortly.
Trying to ring the changes and getting the research right can take a lot of time and effort!
Quote from: Robin Webster on December 28, 2021, 10:51
I would be interested to see what couplers you use to hook them up.
Now that I know through Julian that there is another option besides Greenwich couplers which would allow one to shunt I will looking into that.
I am still undecided on couplings - I have a conflict to get round.
I have looked at most of the options available, but....
a) I want to have couplings that look like the real things
b) I want couplings that work- but don't need them to be automatic
The problem is that going down the choices
a) makes the models look good, but are a pain to work with.
b) makes the models easier to work with but look wrong.
The DHR real coupling bars work fine and would also work on the models - IF they were not so small!
Thanks
Phil H
I look forward to your choice.
A safe New year to you.
Hi Robin,
As a follow up re couplings...
My take on making a coupling that is as near to the real DHR thing as possible.
As I said, they can be made, but are very fiddly to use - worse than 3 link and screw link in 4mm scale.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
OK - to divert my attentions from the coupling situation....
I have more DHR stuff in the building stages - coaches and freight stock.
Photos of progress to follow overthe next few days - waiting for paint to dry so that I can get some decals on.
Talking of decals....
DHR decals in 009 work out expensive even when the cost is split down to the individual stock items that need them.
The decals that are available are very good, but very limited in how/what they can be used for.
But, short of getting a printer that can print white, what is available is what you have to use.
Thanks
Phil H
Hi all,
More to report on this project shortly....
At the mement I am still looking for photos of the real coaches I am modelling.
In particular........
Photos showing the ends of the coaches as, (like all DHR stock) there is a lot of variation - even between coaches in the same batch.
For example - 362, 363 and 364, whilst of the same design, have differences in what and where the end detail is placed plus the shape of pipework and wiring.
These things are what make each coach stand out in it's own right.
I'm already scouring the web and looking at photos that have been published in books, magazines etc in an attempt to get this right.
Thanks
Phil H