My first post, I had intended to make it a photo of my almost-complete layout but regret that it's this instead.
I've had one of the excellent Brigadelok locos and it's run well. However over the weekend it became more and more 'reluctant'. It is now sitting not moving but with the LED lamps working fine. I intend to look inside and see what I could do to fix it but am not sure which screws hold it all in place.
Has anyone taken one apart yet? The pic below has the screws marked, I'd guess A and D?
I think the problem could be the wheels needing cleaning. I may also have over-oiled the gear train.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi131.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp288%2Fbongoharry%2FP1020248.jpg&hash=520a6fd5971240a11985d1ed3025164a336d09e3) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/bongoharry/media/P1020248.jpg.html)
if its like the F&C loco then its all of them & i think to remove the chassis from the body its the screw in the chinney
Thanks, hadn't looked down the chimney! I can see brass but will need to check with a screwdriver.
Quote from: Mike Floate on January 19, 2015, 19:43
I think the problem could be the wheels needing cleaning. I may also have over-oiled the gear train.
If the LED is working, then I do not think the fault is with the wheels. It sounds like something might be jamming the mechanism.
Is the motion locked on one side? Sometimes it jams due to the return crank on the valve gear coming loose. See this thread:
http://www.009society.com/forum/index.php?topic=1745.0 (http://www.009society.com/forum/index.php?topic=1745.0)
I had a couple of brigadelocs do just that, due to parts of the valve gear coming adrift and jamming into the track. Same happened with an F&C when a hand rail fell off and jammed the con-rod.
Some of the finer details are easy to break especially by the ham fisted such as I.
Richard 6080
Quote from: Mike Floate on January 19, 2015, 20:23
Thanks, hadn't looked down the chimney! I can see brass but will need to check with a screwdriver.
IIRC the whole chimney unscrews as it is a one-peice brass turning with the screw thread cut into the bottom that locates into a hole on the chassis block rather than having a screw running down inside it.
If the LED's are working it will not be dirty wheels or poor contacts as the power must be getting to them.
It may be a bit late now but before you start taking the loco apart perhaps it would be a good idea to contact Minitrains and explain the problem you have.
I have always found Andreas to be very helpful and if we just fix the locos ourselves he will never know there is a problem that needs to be looked at with the manufacturing.
Brian Meldon
yes Andrew is very helpful but I suspect he will be pretty busy these days with all the new products and Nuremburg coming up. Only contact him just now if is definitely not one of the problems already mentioned. All the advice I have read is only remove the baseplate as a last resort and if you do be prepared for a lot of gears in there. Have a piece of double sided tape stuck to your working surface and put each axle/gear on it in a way you can remember reassembly sequence. If it is not the valve gear remove the body and gently turn the flywheel .If it is free running and turns the wheels in both directions it is not the gears. Also check the motor is tight in its mounting, I had one that wasn't and the gears glitched as a result. It is not easy to tighten the motor screws without removing the baseplate wheels and gears. Generally I oil the valve gear/rods/slide bar very lightly but only oil the gears if necessary. I always on receipt of a new loco check it for smooth slow running and if necessary release the baseplate screws and retighten enough to be tight but running is well nigh perfect
Peter Smith
Take photos of how things fit together as you disassemble :)
Brilliant advice, thanks so much. I've checked the motion (would not have thought of that) and it is fine. The chimney unscrews, again not what I'd thought. I need to find my tiny screwdrivers to get the chassis off. I'm hoping it is a jammed gear train - the original idea when aiming to take apart.
Finally the photo idea is a great tip, thanks!
I found the screwdrivers and took screws A and D out, not able to remove chassis, so took out B & C - and the wheels and gear train came apart so don't do that! I managed to reassemble but the walshaerts part of the motion may not be back right.
I also removed the two screws on the motor, still no movement.
I found I could turn the motor by my little finger through the cab door and on testing the loco found it moved 1mm or so. I guess there is some kind of problem with the worm gear maybe, or even within the gears at the bottom (but they looked fine). Could even still be the motion if not in the right place.
I'll have another think and maybe try again tomorrow.
you seem to be very unlucky with this loco. In view of its price I would parcel it up and send it back to Minitrains or wherever you bought it; do not invalidate the warranty by modifying it in any way. As already said Andreas is very helpful and if it is faulty will surely replace it. If it came from 009 Sales I am sure they will help, don't know about other dealers
Peter Smith
I am certainly feel I am being unlucky with the loco, this is a replacement from 009 sales for one which arrived with the decorative walshaerts part of the motion unattached and in the box. I'll take advice about contacting Minitrains before bothering them.
No, if it was from 009 Sales I would send it back to them. They should replace and get credit or whatever from Minitrains. 009 Sales are unfailingly helpful I find if you are straight with them. I would not send one of mine back if I had (for example) invalidated the warranty installing a decoder but if a genuine failure, yes
Peter Smith
Sorry Mike,
We all should have said
I believe the method to remove the mechanism from the body for all current Minitrains locos (except first generation Koppel, and the "original" Minitrains Baldwin and Plymouth diesel) is to unscrew the chimney, then pull hard to release the clip which hold the two together. I confess that this pull does need to be harder than you imagine, and you think you are going to break something!
To add to what Tim said, from experience (!) - unscrew the chimney or the screw that is in the chimney in the case of the F&C, but make sure you have your finger holding the cylinder assembly in place when you lift the body from the chassis, then when the body is off, put the screw back in which also secures the cylinder assembly (not counting the gmeinder diesel which don't have one stoopid) otherwise you will end up with bits of valve gear all over the floor/table with only a slim chance of ever getting things back together again!
I discovered this after being given a tray of a dozen F&C locos when helping out with the Thursday gang at Brian's sales department, and instructed to take bodies off to produce chassis for sale. Fortunately my learning curve was created on the first loco attempted so there was only one affected - when you see
Thanks Mick. I've had an immediate reply from Andreas via the sales people which I am replying to (and grateful for).
I think that the repair guy is the best option as Andreas says 'The chassis and the overstructure are joint by a clip mechanism. No screw has to be taken out - just the chimeny needs to be removed and the chassis can be snapped out. This neverthjeless already requires some thought. I found that inserting a small screwdriver under the cab roof and carefully pressing the motor with flywheel downward is the least problematic way to get the chassis loose. The two wires that connect the mechansim with the rectifier board inside the upper structure are in danger at this moment.
But then - what do you do with the loosened chassis?'
How do I get in touch with Ian Turner? Seems I need his expertise.
It's my first go at 009 since 1972 so a big learning curve. I'll make sure my next posts are the layout and 3d printed body I've just had through the post.
yes, do Mike and don't let it disillusion you
Peter Smith
Cheers Peter! I'm seeing it all as problem solving, the job I've just finished teaching D&T for 35 years. Nice to put my advice to others into action
Quote from: Mike Floate on January 23, 2015, 15:15
How do I get in touch with Ian Turner? Seems I need his expertise.
It's my first go at 009 since 1972 so a big learning curve. I'll make sure my next posts are the layout and 3d printed body I've just had through the post.
Suggest you contact Brian Guilmant in the first instance (contact details under Sales Officer in 009 News) and ask him for advice and/or if required for him to ask Ian to contact you. I'm very confident that a solution can be found through the Society "system" for you.
Mick
Cheers Mick. I did email Brian and he forwarded it onto Andreas. I've asked him for Ian's details so hope it can be sorted.
Just to wrap things up I sent the loco to Ian, he has repaired it and posted it back. The loco now runs well, better than ever I'd say. The problem was a tooth a the smallest srocket having broken. I can't recommend Ian enough, great service.
The big tip is not to try and get inside the body if anyone else hits problems!
Info here for Royce - good luck whichever way you decide to proceed!