Unfortunately my job takes me away for periods of several weeks and I find that when I do return I seem to spend most of the time cleaning track and loco wheels to get some form of reasonable running and by the time I have acheived that it is time to leave again :-(
My questions are simple - what recommendations would you have for minimising this ritual - how often do you need to clean things - how do you keep loco wheels and pickups clean?
I am using Lenz DCC to run the layout - in theory DCC should help, at least that is what I thought
All suggestions are welcome, I will try anything!
Many Thanks
Iain Morrison
Iain,
what are you using to clean your trackwork, How big is your layout, and where do you store it?
I ask these questions because they can all make a serious difference to track cleaning.
For starters don't use any of the abrasive track cleaners such as those available from Peco, Hornby, Roco, etc. All these do is wear fine groves in the rail head that quickly collect dirt. I use a wide fibreglass pen and would recommend it, just remember to vacuum the track every once in a while to remove any tiny bits of fibreglass that have been left behind.
If your layout is not too big try covering it when not in use. Normally I can go weeks without cleaning the track, but when I forget to replace the plastic dust sheet that covers the layout it seems as if the track tarnish's overnight.
Lastly if where you store your layout is cold, damp or susceptible to temperature changes this can cause rails to tarnish quicker.
Also I use both a Minitrix N Gauge wheel cleaner that sits on the track and a Kadee HO/N Gauge one that has leads that clip on the rails/power supply. I find both of these quite effective at keeping wheels clean. I also periodically remove the wheel sets from the rolling stock and give them a good clean by soaking them in a little Methelayted Spirits (or IPA when I can get it).
Hope this helps,
Darren.
I am not convinced that a glass fibre brush is any less harsh than an abrasive block, but there are many variables so it is hard to be sure. I am not sure what grade the blocks sold as track cleaners are, but as sold to the metalworking industry they come in a variety of grades. I have one by the name of Garyflex: http://www.moleroda.com/acatalog/Abrasive_Blocks_Garyflex_Sanding.html
One way to check the relative harshness is to rub a flat surface (say a piece brass or nickel-silver sheet or copper-clad board) using one abrasive in one direction and at right angles using the other and see how much effort it takes to remove all the scratch marks left by the other abrasive.
Some people use a small block of hardboard rough side down as a track cleaner. Along these lines, I use a piece of plain A4 paper folded in half as many times as I can and rub the track with that after using an abrasive block. My "theory" is that the paper picks up any residue and burnishes the track at the same time. It is easy to see what the paper is picking up and when it gets dirty I just re-fold it to give a fresh surface. It is surprising how quickly the paper gets dirty.
Among 009'ers this topic seems to arise with monotonous regularity, along with the subject of good slow running and -to be perfectly honest- has anybody got a decent answer?
It does depend on many variables that Iain , many others & me! suffer from- oxidation , voltage supply ,rail joint resistance , weight over pickup wheels etc.
How do the N gaugers & 2mm guys cope?
Anybody with feet in more than one camp let us know
Ken
Having worked as an operator on many 009 layouts on the exhibition circuit for over 30 years, I have observed many different approaches to this problem. I cannot recommend the use of the glass fibre pen, as the likelihood of the cast off fibres being eventually carried up into the mechanism is too great. For loco wheel cleaning the best solution is the Minitrix wheel cleaner, although I have seen a homemade variety made from a suede brush which was just as effective. Rail cleaning is best left to a spot of meths applied with a lint free cloth and old fashioned elbow grease. A recent test of Rail-Zip proved to be a bit of a disaster, although I do know of others who have reported success with this product.
A good controller is essential, the best currently available is probably Gaugemaster, although again there are others of a similar design, some of which are sadly no longer manufactured.
If locos are powered by a donor N gauge mechanism, then quality is usually the watchword. If you a buy a Trabant, you are not going to get Ferrari performance. I have strong feelings about some very well known brands and regrettably cannot repeat them here, as UK libel laws are particularly robust. I am willing to discuss privately at any Society member's day or when taking a break fom operating at a show.
Sticking on track for a moment (not literally!), just had a thought. What people who can't use their layout frequently possibly need is a product that could be applied & simply wiped off again later. Anybody out there with experience in metal protection? I'm thinking of something similar to the coating on brake discs, clutches etc. to protect against oxidation during storage. A quick wipe over the rails has got to take less time than a full on cleaning session & also cause less damage.
I've recently bought a Tomix track cleaner which seems ok on plain track but does have limitations through turnouts, also we're back to the abrasion problem - the dry cleaning function uses very fine wet & dry paper. The vacuum function though works quite well in removing debris.
It seems that until we can get non oxidising rail with good conductivity (gold rail anyody?) it's a case of you pays yer money & you takes yer choice.
Some food for thought I hope
Ken
Someone on a mailing list or forum suggested graphite from a soft lead pencil. OK it is not good if you have gradients and need lots of traction! However, it is conductive and might possibly protect the rail head a bit.
I wonder what it is that actually "does for" the rails? I know that in the case of a friend's O gauge layout in an outbuilding it is mouse pee, but that perhaps not a common problem! Is it dust or damp, the combination or something else?
Further to my previous reply and in response to the reply by Garry relating to using meths on a lint free cloth.
I have tried the axle hung cleaning pads (N Gauge variety) as sold by Gaugemaster. These are plastic with a soft pad attached and simply clip onto the axle of an item of rolling stock and gently rub on the rail tops.
They do work but are quite big so only fit on larger items such as the Parkside Dundas Glyn Valley style 4 wheel coach or vehicles of a similar size. You certainly wouldn't get one under a Ffestiniog slate wagon.
Regards,
Darren.
further on from ' snowdon ranger ' re cleaning pads . Once worn I've glued fine Wet & Dry on the under surface and a little lead glued on the top surface , this is to keep in contact with the rail head . The wagons are then joined as an engineers train , Then run around the layout at the start of every session .
How efficient it is , not so sure , I'm like wimorrison , the layout is not used as often as I would like .
anyway it's a thought .. clanky.
[As posted in response to the same question on Yahoo Groups HOe-modeling.]
Hi Iain,
It is my experience that if you want good running in 009/HOe you have
to put the time in cleaning the track and wheels. There is no easy
option, the track cleaning locos like the Fleischmann loco with its
revolving disks are very useful in keeping clean track clean but if
you leave it for a few weeks the only way to clean the track properly
is by hand. I use a contact cleaning rubber that was once available
from Maplin Electronics for most of the track, and fine (1200 grade)
wet and dry paper on a stick for areas that are difficult to get to.
For loco wheels I run the locos upside-down in a foam rubber holder
and clean the wheel using single strand bell wire connected to a
controller and/or a suitable scraping tool like a tiny screwdriver,
sometimes a track rubber is used to remove every last bit of dirt off
the wheels. This is all done with the loco running at about three
quarter power this has the added beneficial effect of cleaning the
comutators on the motors as well. I do not know the scale of your
layout or the number of locos you need to clean but on my large fixed
layout I have about 50 feet of HOe track and 150 feet of HO track.
This takes about 20 minutes to clean. Then there are the two
exhibition HOe layouts with about 35 feet of 009/HOe track each, but
these only get a clean before they are used or exhibited.
In regard to locos let's just say that it takes me several hours to
clean all the HOe/009 locos wheels.
It may take some time but it is worth it.
I also keep my fixed layout covered when not in use and the exhibition
layouts are packed away, this helps a lot with the track grime but
does not stop it.
Track and wheel cleaning is vital for good running in 009/H0e without
it things will never run 100% it is a pain but the results are worth it.
Brian Meldon
Chaps,
Some excellent suggestions that I will try to implement. As for size I have about 70 feet of track in total, but with some 'buried' in hills that is not as easy to get to as it should have been.
I think I have already committed all the cardinal sins that are described, I have used a Peco Track Rubber (these now seem much finer than they used to be), I have also use 1200 wet and dry, and I even use the Gaugemaster pads. These do seem to collect a tremendous amount of dirt from the railhead. The idea of putting some wet and dry on them is clever, I think I will try that.
I have heard of a product called Railzip that the local model shop swears by, but as he runs his layout every evening, I am nit sure if his good running is partly down to scale (OO) and also very frequent use or the Railzip. I am wary about using this sort of product due to the effort in cleaning it off should it not work. I have just purchased a CMX N cleaner when on my travels together with some Trix Modellbahn fluid which is designed for rail cleaning - it appears to work, but the layout has not yet had a significant period of inactivity (I will let everyone know if it is any good)
Keeping the loco wheels seems to be the most important, and most difficult issue as they are small ;) and when dirty it is difficult to get them turning (I think that this is a bit chicken and egg!). I have purchase 2 Peco brass brush wheel cleaners which when taped together with a bit of plasticard between (to keep brushes separate) seem to be at the correct spacing for 009/HOe - bit of a bonus. My question would be, will these not wear the plating on the wheels and accelerate poor conductivity?
As I said, I think I have tried most of the suggestions and short of changing jobs to allow more time with the layout I think I will just have to suffer the pain for the undoubted please when things are clean!
Many Thanks - I will post something about the CMX when I have some results worthy of posting
Iain
I use the Gaugemaster pads, they fit under a Liliput Coach/Van fine, the pads clean well after running with a cotton bud soaked in Surgical Spirit BP. I often run while the pad is still wet.
Two of my coaches carry a pad and are the first two items run before any session.
The N Gauge pads are the ones I use. My layout is in an open room with the normal amount of dust etc, and most of my locos are old. Hope this is of use.
Hello all,
I swear by Serversol solvent spray for track cleaning followed by a rub over with a graphite pencil (the track not me) ;) follow these links for more info
http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=300&highlight=graphite (http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=300&highlight=graphite)
http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=1260&highlight=graphite (http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=1260&highlight=graphite)
http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=2257&highlight=graphite (http://forum.gn15.info/viewtopic.php?t=2257&highlight=graphite)
Regards,
Simon.
Quote from: Simon Andrews on January 10, 2009, 11:51
I swear by Serversol solvent spray for track cleaning followed by a rub over with a graphite pencil (the track not me) ;)
I must ask at the art shop about the "graphite sticks" referred to in the links. The softest pencil I found was 6B I think. (OT: we were using them at work in a schools outreach engineering workshop where we showed the children how they could make a resistor by simply drawing a line on paper - they made a sound generator and with a bit of patience in getting the length and thickness right you can make a "piano roll stylophone" and have it play simple tunes!)
It could be worth keeping an eye open for an old large DC motor to salvage the graphite brushes perhaps?
Quote from: GraemeD on January 10, 2009, 12:34
I must ask at the art shop about the "graphite sticks" referred to in the links. The softest pencil I found was 6B I think.
I got a pack of 2 x 9B graphite "crayons" from my local-ish branch of Hobbycraft for about
9B! I originally used a 6B graphite stick, but found it seemed to leave vast quantities of black dust everywhere. Now I use a 2B, much harder, there is much less evidence of it having been applied, but the effect seems the same.
I must admit that for the last couple of years I have been actively (but slowly) building a new layout in On30, and the HOn30 Dutton Bay has moved into minimal-maintenance mode, and now only gets a run at the monthly operating session. With trains only running infrequently, I have begun cleaning the track again, prior to each session, and reapplying the graphite. Operation seems to be fine for somewhere between 3 and 6 months with just another rub-over with graphite, but as I forget how things were like from month-to-month I then forgot to clean when it might have been necessary. No big deal, takes me an hour or two with a track rubber and graphite pencil as part of staging the layout for the forthcoming session.
Track cleaning has been a bugbear for County Gate as any attempt to clean track manually on the scenic portions always resulted in some damage. Finally I have chosen two track cleaning systems.
1. Roco
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages36%2F4.jpg&hash=d7ca003f25d3111a1cb3c92215f4dcd8ef27936a)
the Roco has a sprung rubber underneath. This is dragged around twice a day during exhibitions and does work well. It is disguised in a butchered boxcar.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages36%2F2.jpg&hash=9324604866657f7e8ab87a93c28997625a728007)
2. Tomix
This is now supplied by Dapol and is the smallest Hoover in the world. Prior to operating, we do two passes to remove debris...it is good enough to pick up loose bits of ballast.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages36%2F29_small.jpg&hash=2373bf67b48e87d89beae38f02e1add5fa5bb235)
disguised thus
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages37%2F44m.jpg&hash=c0878210d521afff63930a2c5526423bade88405)
I started to use Rail Zip six months ago. For four months, County Gate was stored between exhibitions in its trailer in a covered caravan storage facility. The railzip worked and continues to do so and does protect the rail from oxidation. So far I am well impressed although adhesion has been very slightly compromised. Never let loco wheelsets get soaked with the stuff as you will just spin forever!
JdF
I find that the rail mounted track cleaners are only sufficient to keep the track clean during the day at exhibitions. I use the Fleischman N gauge track cleaner locos that have rotating sprung abrasive pads. These chassis have had tram type loco bodies built on them that can be used on the layout with the other locos. They run very well and have lasted for many years. However this is not sufficient to clean track that has not been used for a while and even at exhibitions I find that the track needs to be cleaned properly with a track rubber each morning. If this is not done I find that the running will suffer. In addition to this every loco will require its wheels to be cleaned each day before use.
I have tried an N gauge vacuum cleaner wagon, and although it does pick up a lot of the dust and dirt, much is left behind, even the standard gauge vacuum cleaner wagon that I use on one layout with it
I agree. I have now basically banned engines with huge flanges like the ibertren chassis.
Even with decent wheels you still need to open out the checkrails on peco points and fettle joins to line up well too. Modern mashima motors help running too as they just seem to have a lower start voltage and less of a tendency to get stuck. I also have added a load of extra feeds on the layout to help reliability.
I love the recent innovations of county gate - using a dcc pin/plug to link to an adjacent wagon is just fantastic, but I'm not sure I have the time or patience!
Hi Colin
I have not had the flange problems with the Ibertren 0-4-0
Hi
I have stopped hand cleaning track on visible sections as almost inevitably, some damage to scenery can happen.
I do find that three passes with the Tomix cleaner does do the trick. The real solution is to get as many wheels to pick up current as you can. Pony trucks add enormously to running qualities and 'plugging in' to the next door vehicle gives 100% good running. The time to install a 'plug in' system is about 5 hours and in my view, worth every minute.
JdF
Quote from: rhydddu009
Even with decent wheels you still need to open out the checkrails on peco points
Can you explain what "open out the checkrails" means? I think I know what those words mean, but I'm not certain it's anything I would do to Peco 009 points
sorry probably not the best use of language to describe. I basically mean taking a small file to deepen (and maybe slightly widen) the gap between checkrail and stock rail. Otherwise I find wheels ride up and derail. Colin
Peco Crazy track points are fairly hopeless and frankly should be avoided.Tillig points from International Models are far better. Ordinary N scale 18" Peco points work just fine.
While one can deepen the flangeways on Peco points, extreme care is needed when widening the gap on checkrails as locos with more fine scale wheels can then come a cropper. I have done it very slightly on CG but these days, I tend to scrap the plastic check rail and replace it with a longer one fabricated in rail.
regards
JdF
Quote from: pilotfriend on February 18, 2009, 10:45
'plugging in' to the next door vehicle gives 100% good running. The time to install a 'plug in' system is about 5 hours and in my view, worth every minute.
JdF
Any chance of a description of the "mechanics" of this John? I assume pickups are added to any "calf" vehicle but would be interested to see the method of connection between vehicles.
Thanks
Ken
Quote from: pilotfriend on January 26, 2009, 20:53
2. Tomix
This is now supplied by Dapol and is the smallest Hoover in the world. Prior to operating, we do two passes to remove debris...it is good enough to pick up loose bits of ballast.
I am slightly confused by the Tomix ads - sometimes it is a hoover, other times a cleaner and I also have seen adverts for abrasive discs for Tomix and cleaning pads. I think that this may be the nirvana of cleaning models and do everything,but then again I may be wrong (again) :-[
Does this,
a) have fluid reservoir for cleaning pads - if so what is the best fluid?
b) have a capability to abrasively clean the railhead?
c) does it hoover at the same time as it does the above?
I saw one on eBay the other day and it went for
The Tomix cleaner isn't the Holy Grail it might seem (speaking from experience) but does perform all 3 functions (not at the same time :D). Sorry I'm not too good at up (down?) loading pics so hopefully a description will help.
The motor drives various interchangeable fittings:-
A disc with very fine wet & dry attached
-do- with a fabric pad & a seperately fitted sponge which is impregnated from a reservoir filled with your favourite plastic inert cleaner.
Fan attachment which is quite effective as a vacuum
The motor only drives the attachments, not the unit itself :(
I think the price has recently increased (probably due to exchange rates! :()
Regards
Ken
I think that the Tomix is getting close to the 'holy grail' . What is cannot do is to clean the inside of the rail head which plays a significant role in current collection. It does, however keep us running without damaging scenery. I still use a track rubber behind scenes but then 'hoover' with the Tomix.
Here are some details of our 'Calf vehicle'
'Lyn' is a very good running loco and it is very rare to get stalled. However we do have a few 'dodgy spots' on the track, usually at baseboard joins. It is the first loco to get plugged in to the adjacent vehicle for extra current pickup. I have used plugs and sockets that are used for DCC chips. I just cut off a pair and we have a good start to make mini plugs.
http://www.009.cd2.com/images51/60.jpg
a socket ready for installation
In order to remain on the tracks due to bending resistance of even the thinnest wire, the boxcar next to Lyn has to be heavily ballasted. The Greemax bogies have wheel sets with one wheel grounded. Therefore each bogie picks up from one rail. They are very easy to convert by inserting a thin strip of phosphor bronze which is drilled at wheel centres. This is glued to the inside of the bogie sides and the wheels carefully replaced in the right position.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages51%2F61m.jpg&hash=ea95483f99665809517df4cf56bf58114e807ed4)
a modified bogie with electrical pick up
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages51%2F65.gif&hash=a9cf9c50ac8b003ab19370b5c577eb2ac815f963)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages51%2F63m.jpg&hash=2c622b6e8667f3876764a4065572627255c82a3e)
'Lyn' installed with the sockets let into the bunker and box car
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages51%2F64m.jpg&hash=548cf0b0d8bab3e99961db7f38a3b51f819179ed)
the plugged in consist...no more 'hand of God'
The plugs are inserted with tweezers while polarity is marked with tiny red paint dots.
Earlier on, I stated that I thought Peco Crazy track ponts were pretty hopeless. Having just built my new fiddle yard using Peco N gauge medium rad. (18") turnouts, this was put into very clear focus.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009.cd2.com%2Fimages52%2F9.jpg&hash=6b5c3676b5f24854f41b462f6bcc44a590efed41)
Without any fettling whatsoever, these points give really smooth crossings of all stock and accept a very wide variety of wheel profiles with no murmer at all - all 'out of the box'.
I now ammend my first statement to:
"In my view, Crazy Points should be assigned to Bedlam and never fitted to a layout. I find it surprising that a company such as Peco still supply such units. They are frankly not fit for purpose."
As a matter of interest, the small radius N gauge turnouts work just as well.
JdF
A Peco 009 point with a point motor and an accessory switch for the wiring will cost about
visited ' modelrail scotland yesterday ' , whilst talking to one of the dapol guys I asked what cleaning fluid they recommend for the tomix rail cleaner ,
two where mentioned the only one I can remember now is a product called
SAMBOL IBS 140 ( german company ) , he said I could obtain it from stall 79ish
JAPAN MODEL RAILWAYS . don't know who else can supply .
question for pilotfriend , forgot to ask how much to fluid to use , how much do you put in your tomix cleaner ? .
Brian,
I realise that my comments might have responses.
There is no need to use slow motion motors with Tillig so the cost comparison you make is much greater than it really is. Tillig points also need very careful laying due to their flexibility.
I am mostly very loyal to Peco until we come to these points.
Incidentally, I have experienced 3 point failures at County Gate.
The concept of fettling is a fancy word for 'fixin a bad product'. I rather suspect that more people have left 009 due to their layouts turnouts than the other way around. I have at least two queries a week from my own website on how to fettle these damn things and I now just email a handout.
Why is it not necessary to 'fettle' N gauge turnouts???? The sleepers can easily be hidden on these by the way.
You also state that fettling takes one hour. Maybe if you are expert and know exactly what rolling stock you are running over it. A newcomer has often no idea what to do and lands up with a scrap point. Even if successful, a new and different chassis may require more fettling and then another chassis may come off! Going back on turnouts on a completed model railway can be very difficult indeed.
I would have to say that 'fettling' can take up to three hours on County Gate due to the variation of stock and I have done it for quite some time.
None of this is needed with Peco N gauge.
best regards
John
Quote from: pilotfriend on February 23, 2009, 17:21
The concept of fettling is a fancy word for 'fixin a bad product'.
Strictly speaking "fettling" is an old term for preparing a raw casting for machining but, to my mind is perfectly acceptable for preparing a "rough" product for reasonable use. I do, however object to having to do it to a brand new item - particularly with regard to the plastic checkrail flangeways on peco points, which seem to be my nemesis. Admittedly I do have quite a range of wheel profiles to contend with, but a scrap rate of 30/40% seems excessive (albeit over a number of years).
I almost accept Peco's reluctance to improve a possibly low profit item, but wonder how that philosphy jibes with the seemingly high tech approach to 'N' slips, an example of which I bought at a swapmeet last year - dead flat, all flangeways within .005" (gauge & depth) ,all "frogs" electrically isolated & seperately wired & complete with extensive wiring instructions! Now you can't tell me that a slip is a high volume item. I accept that the price of this item can be high but I for one would rather have a higher capital cost than an extortionate rebuild/repair one.
By the way, I'm not a turncoat - the slip is destined for an embryonic (very!) module.
The only problem is what can we do?
Live long & prosper
Ken
Sorry John,
Because of the rant, forgot to thank you for the fantastically comprehensive reply to my request on 'plugging in'
Thanks again
Ken
Hi
Firstly for clanky. The cleaning fluid can be ourchased from among others, Carrs. It is Amyl Alcohol. I always preferred carbon tetrachloride until Granny State banned anything that is useful or enjoyable!
I just pour in what I can into the reservoir and take off with it. Nothing too clever. I only do this about once every three months to remove old railzip before reapplying it.
Ken, glad to be of help.
jdf
Hi John
I think like with many other aspects of 009 modelling the problem is that for any manufacture the market for any 009 product is small and the returns are low on any investment. The Peco 009 12 inch and Y points were introduced in the early 1980
pilotfriend , glad you mentioned the 3 months , had'nt thought of that .
So it's not something to be used on that regular a basis . I take it you recommed RAILZIP . by the by , interested to know what loco you use to move the beast , I had to resort to my N gauge union mills SUPER D . I think your dcc will help .
cheers john
Quote from: pilotfriend on February 25, 2009, 09:03
... I only do this about once every three months to remove old railzip before reapplying it.
How do you apply the RAILZIP? I tried the recommended method of laying a couple of strips on the rails and runnning a loco through it and around the trackwork but it dodn't seem to be that successful :( (it also meant that they loco wheels were covered in RAILZIP)
I am sure that there is a more effective method :)
Many Thanks
Iain
Back when I used railzip, I used to apply just a drop on the railhead, every now and then. The rail does need to be clean before it is applied though, otherwise it's a waste of time. It's not a rail cleaner, but a method of providing better conductivity for longer on already cleaned track.
duttonbay I take it we're getting back to the graphite crayon ( wish I could track it down ) , back to the ' black art ' bit
cheers john
Quote from: clanky on February 27, 2009, 17:07
duttonbay I take it we're getting back to the graphite crayon ( wish I could track it down ) , back to the ' black art ' bit
cheers john
There's nothing "black art" about graphite crayons - they work! I got mine (a pair of 9B ones in a pack which cost around 2 or 3 pounds) from Hobbycraft on the artists materials section - same row that stocks pencils and charcoal etc so I would imagine that they can be found in any decent artists supply store.
Mick
Yes, as MickT says, should be available at any artist supply store. I originally used 6B, but have now switched to 2B . It's obviously harder, doesn't leave as much on the rail, but also doesn't leave as much graphite dust around the place.
Just so you know what to look for, here are my 6B (top) and 2B sticks. Of course, these were bought in Australia, so you might not find the exact pencils in the UK:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi164.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu23%2Fduttonbay%2FOdd%2520Photos%2Fgraphite_stick.jpg&hash=97d89165eaf44312437fd57112deedc3c9d1570b)
sorry guys, I meant the whole subject of track cleaning is a bit of a black art . many thanks re the graphite . cheers john
Quote from: clanky on March 03, 2009, 14:16
....the whole subject of track cleaning is a bit of a black art ...
Certainly is if you get a 6B all over the place :D
Iain
There is no 'black art' involved John.
There are however many, many different approaches to cleaning track and keeping it clean, clearly many of them are successful and work for those that use them.
As mentioned before I use the old method of using a track rubber to clean the track before each operating session on the layouts or each morning at exhibitions. It takes time and you do need to build layouts with this in mind so the overhanging trees, buildings and scenery can be easily removed. I also use a track cleaning loco to keep the track clean during the day. My method takes time and effort but it is very effective.
All I can suggest is that you try a few of the methods suggested and see what one works best for you or is appropriate for your budget.
Brian Meldon
"I am amazed it takes you 3 hours to lay a single point. "
This is my experience with Peco Crazy Track. I operate a mixture of stock which all have correct back to backs but I find that my checkrail accuracy has to be 1 thou to get everything through them.The offenders are my K1 Garratt (1972) which does has some 'P' factor on the bogies due to the flexible drives and my long wheelbase Manning Wardles. They require quite different standards. As often as not, I end up removing the checkrails and replacing them with my own.
None of this applies when using 18" rad N gauge Peco points. everything just sails though them.
My two Mallets hate 12" rad points but they do not have to negotiate them on their traffic patterns.
regards
John