Just wondering, I have at least a trio of these Hornby brake vans lying around from my many old broad gauge layouts and I decided to give them a proper home rather than just dust collecting.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hornby-railway-trains.co.uk%2FRolling_Stock%2FTrucks_Wagons%2FR718_LMS_Brake_Van_730386%2FR718_LMS_Brake_Van_730386.jpg&hash=876e6d2f0f15b042c18d9dc5879ca98bb2793d57)
The van itself is 106mm long which scales out at 26ft 6" but I am not sure how much of that length includes the buffers - I'm guessing if it does include them they are are most about 12mm of the total (so about 3ft ish) which got me wondering if they would make good candidates for a heavy(ish) 2ft 3" brake van and what would be best to do with them to make them "look" right - narrow them, shorten them, cut them down in height, all three??
I know I will need to either modify or totally remove the Hornby "box" chassis as well, so would they work as 6-wheel vans or bogie vans?
Lots of questions I know but this is me - I'd rather have too much information and lots of ideas given to me!
Personally, I would not use these for 009 :D. However, if you are determined to use them, at least you should do as you suggest; narrower, lower and shorter. A better option would be to use 3mm scale - and Triang TT wagons often appear on Ebay at reasonable prices. I recommend that you sell these, and use the money to buy something more suited to 009.
I can show some of my TT conversions if you are interested.
Oh yes please, I would be most interested in seeing them.
I was considering some of the Worsley Works 3mm scale coach kits as well for stock but I think they would be beyond my building skills!
The main issue with using OO gauge bodies for 009 is the width, so I'd check that against what you have / are planning to use on your layout. It will not be impossible to cut the break van along its length, but it may be easier to cut the sides away from the rest and make up new, narrower, ends and partitions.
Bogie break vans are not unknown on narrow gauge, the L&B had some, as did the SAR 2' gauge if you wanted some inspiration.
A note of caution about using 3mm scale stuff - I've done a few myself but feel that steel open freight stock works best, as the 3 mm scale planks can look a bit thin in 4 mm scale, and doorways on vans, carriages, etc. designed for people are only about 18 mm tall. That scales to 4' 6" when you move up to 4 mm scale which is a bit small for most people to get through comfortably - and at 6'4" tall I'd probably be on my hands and knees!
Some of my "upscaleing" of "TT" stock... (Edit: I've added the photos now I'm on the computer rather than on the pad)
Bogie hopper wagon made from the Andrew Shilito 3mm scale HAA kit and a pair of Chivers plastic bogies fitted with 8 mm wheels.
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2702/4321904706_61824f6364_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/7zUTGo)
Bogie timber wagon made from a 3 mm scale it for the OCA(?) standard gauge timber wagon and a pier of Nine Lines L&B bogies
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4029/4321172901_eae82af88c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/7zR9a4)
Pair of bogie tankers. These were made from a Czech kit (1:120 scale as opposed to UK 1:100), and I think all I did was to re-gauge the wheels and later the tank filler.
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2771/4321906260_21a9e03d9f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/7zUUab)
Bogie ballast hopper. Again, this was made from a Czech kit (1:120 scale as opposed to UK 1:100), and I all I did was to re-gauge the wheels.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4054/4321173603_d286d90c21_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/7zR9na)
Whilst Julien has a point regarding the height of the doors, I have just measured both my van, and the PECO L&B van, and they are the same door height! I agree that neither are exactly large vehicles, and as Julien suggests, you need to decide what loading gauge your railway works to. I would not use TT scale coaches, for the reasons Julien mentions.
So here are a few pictures:
(https://elmgatemodels.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/open.jpg)
This is a TT 5-plank wagon, on Dundas Tralee and Dingle chassis - decide for yourself if the planks look too narrow. The brake van is the VoR one, with opened out veranda, and this fits nicely with the converted stock.
(https://elmgatemodels.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/van-9.jpg)
Here is a van, using an old Welshpool chassis. I have a later one on the same T&D chassis.
(https://elmgatemodels.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/loco-fuel.jpg)
The Fuel tank is mounted on old Jouef coach bogies, with a plastic card chassis. Any bogies you have available would do of course.
(https://elmgatemodels.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/hunslets.jpg)
Finally, I am known for "bashing" the TT scale Jinty locomotive - here are three of them!
Regarding the suitability of 00 items for 009 there is a very simple test. Imagine the full size prototype and then think what it would look like, overhangs, length, general bulk, on 2' 3" gauge track. If it passes that test it will be OK in model form.
Rod
Keep a look out at Model Railway Shows, Swapmeets, maybe E -Bay ?
Tri ang TT wagons that are suitable, Tank Wagons both bogie and 4 wheel variety, open wagons and the flat wagons and the hopper wagons that can be converted to bogie hoppers.
Not really suitable are the box vans.
At one time you were able to purchase the above from the 3mm Society, if you were a member ( or you knew someone who was a member ).
We run some of the above on our layouts, Gairloch & Wester Ross/ Crummack Valley/ Loch Ewe Harbour and Rothampton.On the four wheel stock, we use Peco N gauge underframes
Mick T., has taken many photos of the above layouts and I am sure some would show some of the ex TT stock.
Stan.
Now they all look very good to me.
I was planning a layout set in the Queensland area so I am going to have a bit bigger loading gauge. Those bogie tankers look quite a lot like some bogie palm oil tankers I saw in a youtube video. Narrow gauge is new for me so I appreciate all the help and advice that I am given.
Not very good with working out what will and won't work so seeing things allows me to get a better idea. Maybe some of my US outline Roundhouse Old Time stock might work quite well in NG.
Here are some of my converted SG wagons. All are about 24mm wide.
First I have a pair of these bogie wagons:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2F2010_0826TTandTriang0001.jpg&hash=231277adab74d50be038cb02bee60a3d54f39ce0)
These are a very quick and easy conversion and were made from a couple of wagons that were originally from a Triang clockwork set that are often obtainable for pence second hand.
I removed the axel boxes and couplings, then cut the ends at an angle of about 20 degrees starting from the top corner.
I then roughly cut the central section out the floor so that what was left less than the total width I wanted.
I then made a new floor and ends out of tin sheet.
The bogies are made from two egger bogies stuck back to back with one coupling removed.
Next is the drop side wagon that also came in the Triang clockwork sets:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2F2010_0826TTandTriang0003.jpg&hash=6493e31b4c31768523f1c7d132c96154e3f3b914)
Again these are very cheap second hand. This time I cut the ends and floor to the exact size I wanted, but I still added a new floor to cover the joint and once again the bogies are made from egger two wheel bogies.
Here are two other ex 00 wagons I have used for 009/H0e:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2F2010_0826TTandTriang0004.jpg&hash=e47a0134bccf13fe7d7258b0df51a3ca7644d1cf)
The three plank wagon with the crates is a body from a Mainline (I think) wagon. I have been given lots of these wagon bodies by someone who only wanted the chassis. The conversion is somewhat more complex than with the Triang wagons because I cut the ends in such a way as to re-use them as well as making the u channel chassis. The bogies are Roco four wheel wagons.
The six plank wagon is on the other hand is a very simple conversion. It is an unaltered 00 con-flat. coal wagon kit with Dundas 009 bogies added. It just happens to be 24mm wide and therefore ideal for 009/H0e use.
Last is this box van:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2FDscf7250.jpg&hash=8bc33e2c97bb69568a9084700ed9397faa7f0222)
This is an unaltered Merit (Peco) 00 con-flat van body with bogies made from two wheel Egger bogies. As with the 7 plank coal wagon above this is already the right size for 009/H0e use.
Here are some locos I have that have SG origins:
This loco has an ex H0 Bachmann 0-6-0 loco body with the cab cut down to make this tender loco:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2FFS%2520Co%2FFSCo60001.jpg&hash=9950485d08a163c9f95d660098da5f393c7c5579)
I suppose the three big Shay
Quote from: Stan Williams on October 11, 2014, 16:38
Tri ang TT wagons that are suitable, Tank Wagons both bogie and 4 wheel variety, open wagons and the flat wagons and the hopper wagons that can be converted to bogie hoppers.
Not really suitable are the box vans.
Stan.
Stan, I am sorry my vans disappoint you! :D
Here are three wagons I converted from TT gauge items.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2FNGRM%2520On-Line%2FTT%2520Wagons%2FTTwagons0009.jpg&hash=afd8da42ae8e1e62fe91a4eca383abefbf18abcb)
All three were made by Berliner TT-Bahnen. The two open wagons have Roco four wheel wagon bogies, but the tank wagon retains its original chassis with Bemo couplings added and the original wheels just re-gauged on the original axles with some sections of the chassis removed for clearance.
Here is a photo showing the underside of the chassis and the coupling:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2FNGRM%2520On-Line%2FTT%2520Wagons%2FTTWagons0008a.jpg&hash=cbc9c2e94f6e60412aa3ec50aa7b0f13ecd1d896)
Egger-bahn also used TT wagon bodies in their H0e production range.
The Egger-bahn bogie tanker wagons and the bogie hopper wagon have bodies made by Rokal from their TT range.
Here is the Rokal TT bogie hopper wagon:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fguidetozscale.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fdb_images%2Fdb_00317w1.jpg&hash=e2c0b84021049aab29ada0bdf48dcbef41a7397f)
(Originating web page: http://guidetozscale...ml/photos2.html)
Here is the Egger-bahn hopper wagon that uses the same body moulding made by Rokal:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.egger-bahn.nl%2Fimages%2Fegger_2310_smalle_kopp.JPG&hash=d8ee894b36ef6db4be44ef6312243bb14ddcf8ba)
(Originating web page: http://www.egger-bahn.nl/smalspoor%20foto_goederen2.html)
Brian Meldon
Quote from: Elmgate on October 13, 2014, 11:40
Quote from: Stan Williams on October 11, 2014, 16:38
Tri ang TT wagons that are suitable, Tank Wagons both bogie and 4 wheel variety, open wagons and the flat wagons and the hopper wagons that can be converted to bogie hoppers.
Not really suitable are the box vans.
Stan.
Stan, I am sorry my vans disappoint you! :D
At the end of the day it comes down to personal preferences.
For small loading gauge lines (Ffestiniog, etc.) a 3 mm scale van could work, but for something more 2' 6" gauge and colonial in loading gauge (the kind of thing that Stan and I tend to model) then a 3mm scale van has a tendency to look a bit silly - as do Ffestiniog bug boxes! - and bashing something to OO scale may be the way to go.
Well they all look very nice to me. The Rokal models are very nice looking and they strike me as quite a good way to do a "modern image" narrow gauge line.
Unfortunately the Rokal TT wagons do have a collectable value these days.
However if you want the hopper body as used by Egger-bahn, without the ladder, Ruud Wittekoek in the Netherlands, has four for sale for 10 euros each. He had many more at one time, but I think these must be the last few.
These Egger hopper bodies were purchased by Jouef along with the Egger-bahn moulds, boxes and many other unassembled components in 1968. However Jouef did not re-produce the Hopper wagons or any of the tanker wagons, even though they had the bodies. Jouef later sold off the tanker bodies as an H0 scale accessory in the late 1970