Joined the society a few months ago, and like to think of myself as the most Northerly member, living in the Yukon Territory (home of the old Klondike Mines Railway). I have been flirting with model railways for a while, and have recently built an On30 layout for a local museum (sorry to mention another gauge here, please forgive me!). However, I rolled the dice and it came up OO9, so tally ho! These forums have been a great source on information and guidance for this northern newbie, and has allowed me to consider starting my journey with a small 4ft long layout on which I can get to grips with OO9 trackwork, point control, DCC, couplings etc before I fill up the space i have reserved for "my empire"!
I was very fortunate to be in England recently and attended Narrow Gauge south - wow! Some real quality and some very friendly folk indeed - lots of great advice and ideas. Fantastic - even my 81 year old Dad who has been modelling for 70 years was impressed - although as it wasn't P4 and GWR, it was QUITE good enough...smile.
I managed to pick up a Prince body (for a Kato tram chassis I have back home) from who I think was a VERY friendly Mrs. Chris Ward, and a Jeanette Peco body on an Arnold 0-6-0 chassis from the Members Sales stand. That should give my rolling stock inventory a shot in the arm!
I took the chassis off the body and removed some carpet fibers, some scenic grass, plastic tape etc and gave it a thorough birthday. I now face the difficult decision of whether to plunge into DCC, an area I have no experience of? Has anyone successfully chipped an Arnold 0-6-0, and if so, any tips/hints/guides/warnings to a newcomer would be MOST graciously received....searched these forums but couldn't find anything specific.
Thanks so much in advance
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
Welcome aboard!
If you are at all electrics savvy then fitting DCC chips is 'follow the instructions' that come with the chips. The difficult bit is maybe finding a physical space.
I fancy that the 'Hon30' brigade may well know about the Arnold chassis and its conversion. NB a
Welcome Stephen!
The basics of fitting a DCC chip is to connect it between the loco's pick ups and the motor - "red & black to the track (pick ups), orange & grey the other way (motor)". This can either be 'hard wired' or you could use some sort of decoder plug but you'll still have to install the plug so its a case of 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other when it comes to the Arnold 0-6-0. It's probably not a bad idea to isolate the chip from the white metal body to avoid any issues with current flowing where you don't want it to - usually a heat-shrink sleeve or something similar around the chip will do the job - I have one loco where the chip has been slipped into a length of styrene tube sitting within the brass tube boiler.
Note that DCC will not magically improve a loco that runs poorly on analoge, so get the running right on that before fitting the chip.
To some extent I'd agree with Richard in that on a 4 foot layout you are unlikely to want to run multiple locos at the same time, especially as most UK based NG lines ran on a 'one engine in steam' policy. But, if the future plans involve double heading, sound, lights then its probably worth going down the DCC route sooner rather than later, as it will spread the cost of chipping locos to do them as you get them as opposed to waiting for a few years to find you have a stud of 20+ to buy chips for! Personally I wouldn't worry about DCC control of points unless building something really big, as in my experinece of running a DCC layout its bad enough trying to remember which loco has which number (when the locos don't have number plates!) without also trying to recall which point is worked by which number!
Don't forget that most (if not all) DCC chips will work on an ordinary analoge controlled layout (with the exception of those fitted with a high frequency AC track cleaning unit, like the old Relco), and whilst it might be useful to have a DCC controller to test the fitted chips it does not need to be attached to the layout.
When it comes to the DCC system it might be best not to get one of the bargain basement 'starter' sets as you might find that it comes with some limitations which will mean either spending money on upgrades, or selling what you had initially got (at a loss) to get something further up the tree. I would also suspect that the same is true of the chips in that you get what you pay for, and the bargain basement ones may not be as robust as named brands.
Hope that helps,
Julien.
Welcome to the Society and to the Forum Stephen! So sorry we were unaware of your attendance at Sparsholt (NGSouth) last weekend as you would have undoubtedly been awarded the accolade for furthest travelling member to have made it to Hampshire in one piece (it would have been worth a drinks voucher at the very least I'm sure!).
Personally, unless you want to get stuck in to it, I'd avoid DCC and just enjoy yourself! The 2 startup locos for your roster should serve you OK whilst you get things going and will provide different aspects of interest and learning curve for you as they are without having to delve into the innards of the things!
The CWR 3D "Prince lookalike" is rather larger than the Festiniog original but that won't matter too much unless you are expecting a scale model of that loco. You shouldn't have any trouble with the Kato tram chassis as that runs well but will benefit from some weight under the big saddle tank loco as the 3D printed body on its own is very light.
The Arnold 0-6-0 is a very venerable beast and could be anything up to 40 years old. If you have done a good clean up on yours and find that it runs well, then it should provide you with another long innings. The Jeanette body is very small for 009 and there has been much discussion about it, you'll probably find some of it on this forum somewhere. The boiler and fittings are fine but the cab is way to low and will stand out a mile compared to your much larger CWR saddle tank loco. I would suggest cutting the cab off the Jeanette and either raising it by about 3mm by putting s strip of thick (at least 60 thou) plasticard or equivalent bit of whitemetal under it to raise it, or replace it completely with a bigger cab either scratch built or using modified bits from another 00/009 etc loco.
Then you will come to choice of couplings - Your Kato chassis will have the standard N gauge couplings on it whilst I am sure the Arnold, under the Jeanette you bought 2nd hand, will have 009 couplings - they ain't compatible with each other! I will leave this very contentious subject to others to answer as I have trodden an unfashionable path myself and opted to mainly go for N gauge couplings on the basis that most of what I bash together started off as N scale locos and wagons and the couplings come ready supplied! One way around this problem is to have an 009 wagon or van with each type of coupling on different ends, therefore making a "match truck". Several well known and respected 009 modellers have at least one of these match trucks in their rosters for precisely this purpose.
Enjoy your learning curve with the wonderful and slightly insane world (sometimes) of 009!
Mick
Thanks for the welcome and advice everyone. To DCC or not to DCC is a tough question - I am just going to start with a small layout first and get going - with only two locos in my stable - changing later will not be too hard. I have also pondered the coupling issue whilst reviewing these fourms, and am still undecided. Greenwich, MicroTrains, Bemo...sigh..yet another decision! May end up getting a set of each and seeing which one tickles my fancy the most!
As for a drinks ticket, I was happy with 10% off the sales stand! Managed to get everything through airport security, although they were interested in the Arnold mechanism! lol. Had to put the Jeanette body back on to show security what it was! Hilarious scenes in Heathrow....
Good advice on the cab - will hack it off and enlarge as suggested. I have never been much for true prototypical modelling (heretic I hear some shout!), but prefer to capture the essence and sense of things I have seen myself. Having been raised by a total Trainiac I have a lot of memories to draw from. The space I have to fill is a u shape, about 10ft by 9ft b y 6ft - so should be fun....for now though, a 4ft by 1.5 ft rectangle is my beginning...
Thinking of a fictitious Indian Hill Station - as I spent a few months in Darjeeling and Sikkim a few years back and rode the DHR quite a bit. Now I cant afford one of those Class B models at the moment, but the rails running close to edges, vehicles, people and ramshackle buildings should be fun to create....will likely call it "Teesta Bazar" (yes i know that is a real place as I have been there a few times, and yes, I know it didn't have a railway! lol) - small pass through station, and a "tea" shed of some kind - perhaps an aerial ropeway leaving the scene....ahh, love the "dreaming" stage of a new layout. My own liveries, loco names, little bit of freight, a few coaches and bingo - can smell the spices from here!
Thanks again, and here's hoping when I am finally home, the clean up job I did in my Dads workshop on the Arnold chassis has done the trick!
S
Hi
Personally, I like DCC and its ability to switch lights (LEDs) on and off , set direction of travel, speed control curves to tame older locos with low gear ratios, etc, etc. I have had no trouble wiring chips into my locos. The Digitrax DZ125 decoder is fully insulated in a plastic tube, a no quibble replacement guarantee even if you blow it up (they say), and it is VERY small, being designed for N or Z Gauge. As long as you isolate the motor from the chassis and wire the decoder as per the instructions it will be straightforward to fit. I suggest you look on the Minitrains web site to see how they mounted and wired a decoder into their small locos. One thing I would be wary of though, and that is the DCC controller choice. Several of the lower priced types that come in a "starter set" such as the Bachmann EZ Command, one of the Lenz models, the Hornby Select etc, do not have much programming ability. So you miss out on the ability to tailor the speed range, momentum etc, and only are able to set direction and switch lights on. The ability to read back the CVs (settings) in the decoder and adjust them up or down is very useful, but not all controllers are able to read as well as set these CVs. The Bachmann Dynamis is reasonably cheap and readily available on e,bay , but it can't read back CVs until upgraded to the more expensive "Pro"
model. I found all this out the hard way so do your homework before you buy a DCC controller.
Chris Wright
Thanks for the tips Chris. I was given a Digitrax Zephyr, so was thinking of using that. Not too intimidated by soldering in a decoder - but not quite sure on the "isolating the motor" element in the Arnold chassis - but a bit more reading up may help that! I was talking to a really friendly young fella at Sparsholt who showed me his DDC OO9 equipped locos - he had an interesting layout whose name I have forgotten (he said set in Scotland!) with an unusual "end view" element. He was a very strong advocate for DCC in OO9! Will play around with an extra Kato chassis I have, since I have the digitrax controller already and can get a DZ125 relatively cheaply...
S
Thanks!
The Zephyr is probably one of the better 'starter' sets - I have one myself!
I agree re the Zephyr, this does all you will need.
My layout is quite small, basically a 2ft x 4ft double sided island with a wye leading off one back corner into a single "around the wall" track with a reverse loop at its far end. DCC is great for this as a single reverse loop module allows continuous running around this "dogbone" shape, the polarity automatically changing as trains go into, or out of, either loop. You can't do this on Analogue control! To change the loop points automatically, I have installed 2 IRDOT P infra red detector modules so trains can actually run right round the whole layout without me having to manually change the loop points.
So even on a small layout, DCC can be very versatile.
Quote from: Stephen Mead on April 10, 2014, 18:49
........... I was talking to a really friendly young fella at Sparsholt who showed me his DDC OO9 equipped locos - he had an interesting layout whose name I have forgotten (he said set in Scotland!) with an unusual "end view" element. He was a very strong advocate for DCC in OO9! Will play around with an extra Kato chassis I have, since I have the digitrax controller already and can get a DZ125 relatively cheaply...
S
Thanks!
The friendly young fella you met at Sparsholt is Nic Arthur, from Bournemouth, and his layout is called Torrisdale Tramway. I'll have a few photos of his layout in my photo report which I hope to have uploaded on my website within the next few days - http://micksrovingreporter.blogspot.com/
Mick
>>DCC is great for this as a single reverse loop module allows continuous running around this "dogbone" shape, the polarity automatically changing as >>trains go into, or out of, either loop. You can't do this on Analogue control! To change the loop points automatically, I have installed 2 IRDOT P infra >>red detector modules so trains can actually run right round the whole layout without me having to manually change the loop points.
You can do continuous running dogbones with analogue, I had one in 1993. You can also have a station stop midway, these days, using DC locos. Much cheaper than chipping all your locos. You can have a continuous tailchase with several locos following each other without any collisions.
This is not to start a fire fight over the merits of one or tother system, tis horses for courses and personel taste, but we must have the facts straight.
richard s
One of the advantages of DCC often highlighted is the ability to run several trains at once. This can certainly apply to large club layouts but is less relevant to small 009 layouts.
However there is a related situation that a number of 009 modellers have - too many locos and too little track! ('Too many' in this context may mean two or three locos on a small shunting layout.) The fact that only one train is moving at a time does not mean that they are not all 'under control'. With DCC it is possible to place locos anywhere on the track and move them independently. A good example would be a Chuckle Brothers 'to me to you' shunting layout such as Gumstump and Snowshoe or any compact layout where putting isolated sections in short sidings and loops might severely limit where stock and engines can be placed.
(Referring to the reversing loop problem, DCC is not a panacea and there are other ways. If a train detector such as IRdot is allowed into the equation then in DC it is an easy task to reverse the polarity of the main running line using a relay. In DCC a similar device in the form of an auto reverse loop module is required, but again, if the train is detected before the short occurs then a relay will suffice.)
I stand corrected! Can it be done without any stopping or hesitation? I thought that you needed DCCs ability to keep the set direction regardless of the track polarity?
I also like the ability to control any loco anywhere without sectioning and switching. Next challenge will be sound....
Chris Wright
Quote from: Chris Wright on April 12, 2014, 22:31
I stand corrected! Can it be done without any stopping or hesitation? I thought that you needed DCCs ability to keep the set direction regardless of the track polarity?
I also like the ability to control any loco anywhere without sectioning and switching. Next challenge will be sound....
Chris Wright
Yes. In essence you need to do in DC the same sort of thing that a reverse loop module (or 'frog juicer') does automatically in DCC when it detects a short. The problem is the same: at some point round the reverse loop (depending where you put the section breaks) the left rail becomes the right rail and vice versa so causing a short.
The difference between doing this switch over in DCC and DC is that in DCC it is normally the polarity of the section of track in the loop that will be flipped leaving the main line unchanged. In DC you need to reverse the polarity/direction of the mainline while the train is in the loop. If there is a train detector in the loop that throws the points it can also switch the polarity of the track feed at the same time.
'Professor Klyzlr' made 'Dynamite Canyon', a double reverse loop layout with manual polarity switching (and points with no moving parts) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lbdod_dXJU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lbdod_dXJU) Though the switching is done manually, it would be easy to automate.
In electronics terms all it needs to automate it is a 'bistable flip-flop'* triggered inside each loop, set in one, reset in the other. This is easy to do with a bistable relay and two train detectors of your choice , e.g. even a magnet and two reed relays: completely electro-mechanical, no electronics needed!
* oops! correction - an SR (set-reset) latch.
Yes, I would say go for DCC from the off, it males the transition less painful later...
Just make sure you get chips that are capable of running on DC as well... Older Bachmann 6 pin chips aren't...
The particular pleasure you get from DCC is being able to just the loco, you're not turning sections of track on and off all the time. You can park your loco where you damn well like without having had to think about it first!
You are driving the loco, not the track....
I have just invested in a Z21, superb despite the mostly annoying bugs and the crappy router... I suspect it will just get better! But then I started with DCC in the Roco camp with a multiMaus...
"Thinking of a fictitious Indian Hill Station - as I spent a few months in Darjeeling and Sikkim a few years back and rode the DHR quite a bit. Now I cant afford one of those Class B models at the moment, but the rails running close to edges, vehicles, people and ramshackle buildings should be fun to create....will likely call it "Teesta Bazar" (yes i know that is a real place as I have been there a few times, and yes, I know it didn't have a railway! lol) - small pass through station, and a "tea" shed of some kind - perhaps an aerial ropeway leaving the scene....ahh, love the "dreaming" stage of a new layout. My own liveries, loco names, little bit of freight, a few coaches and bingo - can smell the spices from here!"
Wow, I'm also doing a fictitious Indian Hill Station! Perhaps we can compare notes.
Tom
That sounds like a grand idea Tom - I have posted the proposed track plan under "layouts" - take a look!
S
So, after a summer of camping, fishing, cutting firewood and being "Dad", the snow is thick on the hills and my mind turns again to my fledgling attempts at OO9. Looking closely at the Arnold chassis, I think I can simply insert some insulating plasticard between the slightly sprung contacts from the pick ups and the motor. This should then allow me to wire up the DCC chip fairly easily - removed the capacitor....should be a green light to go! Will need a smaller chip than the DZ123 I put in my Kato/Chris Ward Princess class.....any suggestions gents?
Thanks in advance