Hello,
I am nearly ready to start tracklaying, using peco mainline points and a couple of the rustic type.
I shall be using seep motors with the switch to make the frog live.
Do I have to cut the two little wires under the point before laying to enable the frog to be live?
Hope that makes sense?
I haven't done that for my HO & OO layouts so its a bit new to me.
Many thanks
Richard
The advantage of switching frog polarity is, of course, that reliance is not needed on contact between the point blade and the stock rail. It is not necessary to remove the two wires connecting the frog to the blades but I do it to avoid the other potential irritation of the backs of wheels touching the adjacent blade and causing a short. This is not a big problem in 00 these days with finer and more consistent wheel standards. In 009 the choice of chassis can be limited and older chassis with more variable wheel profiles and standards can be problematic. If you do remove the wires ( a small screwdriver gently pushed under each wire will release it easily) you will then need to solder a wire (I use surplus decoder wire after removing a small section of web under the rails)) between each blade and its adjacent stock rail avoiding the moving part of the blade
Personally I would not use the older points even in sidings if I was going to the trouble of switched mainline points elsewhere but that is only my choice
Peter Smith
Thank for your reply Peter, that's very useful.
Having previously used a number of Seep motors on my layout I can definitely say that the built in switch is totally unreliable when the motion is limited in N gauge and 009. I ended up fitting additional microswitches on brass brackets to replace the inbuilt switches. I have gone over to Peco point motors and their excellent double micro switches for switching frogs on all later points. These also give an additional set of contacts for signals or panel lights etc if you want them.
Chris Wright
Thanks for the further info Chris. My dad gave me the seep motors because he didn't like the switch!
Maybe i'll get some brand new peco stuff.
I agree with Chris, but didnt like to put a damper on all your plans. I must admit I have found similar problems with Peco point motors and switches (especially the switches) with the limited throw of 009 points. I also havent had first-hand experience of Seep motors for a long time but do recall them being problematic
Peter Smith
The old sliding peco point motor mounting switch is similar to the seep ones in that it doesn't always move across enough to make the contact. The more expensive double microswitch type only needs to transfer a short distance before its spring transfers the contacts and holds them there. If you have a load of Seeps already, I would recommend bending up some brass brackets and mounting a Maplins miniature microswitch so that the bottom of the Seep actuator wire transfers them.
I'd recommend (too late for me) that it is better to mount the Seep and the switch on a baseplate as a unit that can be assembled on the bench to save trying to work over your head under the layout to get the microswitch adjustment right!
Chris Wright
I have not used the Seep point motors so I can not comment.
I do however use the Peco point motors with the accessory switches to change the frog polarity.
The throw of the 009 points is indeed small but once the point motor is correctly adjusted so that the switch changes correctly I have found them to be very reliable over the long term.
If the Peco point motor is fixed directly to the point using the tabs and the slots in the point then the switch needs to be adjusted, this can only be done by snapping off the locating lug at one (or both) ends and then re-securing the switch to the motor using super glue. (I also wire them in place using enamelled wire just to be sure!)
But the vast majority of my point motors are fitted below the
Thank you Brian for the further info.
Hopefully I can get started soon, time permitting!
I've got some new Gaugemaster relays, these will wired up in parallel with the point motors.
The point motors do the blades, the relays the frog polarity.... Super reliable!
How are the blades powered?
The blade to fixed rail contact is in my experience unreliable so I would not recommend it even for only powering the blades.
Brian Meldon
I am using seep point motors on my layout, but having heard the are a bit iffy with 009 I have used a 4 to 1 ratio using a pivoted rod with the point connected to it 5mm from pivot and the motor 20mm from pivot. This gives the motor more or less the full stroke of the sliding rod
Rowand
I use Seep motors on Angst and have had no problems with them mechanically switching 009 points. I backup the electrical connections using relays (but it can be done using switches, as shown elsewhere)
Quote from: Chris Wright on February 16, 2014, 16:40
Having previously used a number of Seep motors on my layout I can definitely say that the built in switch is totally unreliable when the motion is limited in N gauge and 009. I ended up fitting additional microswitches on brass brackets to replace the inbuilt switches. I have gone over to Peco point motors and their excellent double micro switches for switching frogs on all later points. These also give an additional set of contacts for signals or panel lights etc if you want them.
Chris Wright
I'm still reading through the forum after having recently joined, and believe I have a somewhat counter-intuitive solution to the problem of SEEP point motor changeover switch unreliability.
When I wired my last OO layout, the installation of a double slip [Peco] was not without a deal of fiddling about. I determined that the amount of throw on a slip is roughly half that of an ordinary turn-out and thus the position of a
well secured SEEP motor critical if the armature wiper was to reliably coincide with the left/right contacts. Even so, the contact was minimal.
By using 2mm screws in the 3mm motor mounting holes and leaving them backed off SO THAT THE MOTOR COULD MOVE left and right by 1mm the wiper on the armature aligned perfectly every time with the switch contacts.
Additionally, the picture below may offer a suggestion as to how a Seep motor may be kept centralised during installation, it also makes a useful handle to hold in a vice/clamp when soldering on tails.