So Peco are going to introduce 009 setrack as advertised in the February issue of the 'Modeller'. 9 inch radius curves, short and long straights at 3.5 and 7ins long. The curves are 8 or 16 to a circle. All this begs the question will Peco reintroduce 9inch radius points and also will this proliferation of 009 setrack produce more rabbit warren layouts. Personally I hope not but more layouts like Ted's 'Nixnie' modelled to a high standard are fine as I have a similar layout under slow construction. I also know of someone in the society who has recently bought an old rabbit warren layout with good scenics that need refurbishing after being in storage for many years. He has removed the warren trackwork making it a plain oval and the layout looks and operates so much better.
Roger
I for one would love to have two 9" points for a certain part of my planned layout which will only be used by Worseley Works Darjeeling railcars the so that they contrast with my mainline 18" points. Even if they're setrack I really welcome them.
Hmm! To avoid the gauge narrowing issue on the ends of Eitomo, I've been taking 9" radius setrack curves (45
The old 9 inch electrofrog points are much in demand these days.
However before you sell them it is worth checking the blade to frog electrical connections as I have known several to fail even when new!
Also unfortunately there has been no mention of any 9 inch radii 009 set track points from Peco as yet.
I think that the track is destined to go into a Minitrains starter set later in the year and I understand this was one of the main reasons it has been produced.
I do not have any insider knowledge about this but there is a strong suggestion that this set will be 009 not H0e and include a Bagnall inverted saddle tank using the latest version of the inside frame Minitrains chassis.
If this is the case it will be a real game changer for 009 modelling.
But this could be incorrect.
Brian Meldon
According to the Peco website there is a threat to produce narrow gauge equivalents to ST-5 & st-6
richard
Could you point out where it says that, please?
Follow the 'Latest News' link on their web page and click on the link in the 'New Track Range for OO/HO Narrow Gauge Range' track paragraph:
"New Track Range for OO/HO Narrow Gauge Range
...
The geometry of the track system is the same at the Setrack N gauge range, so if modellers want a matching turnout they can use the current ST-5 and ST-6, but we do intend to product 00-9 Setrack turnouts at a later stage."
This might work: http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=OOHO (http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=OOHO)
Edit: oo-er, just noticed a typo on the Peco web site. I'm glad it's not just me!
Thanks Graeme, useful link and it works fine.
I am puzzled by the single and double curves, both 9in radius and both 22.5deg, but one is 8 per half circle and one is 4. ????
Frank
There is a mistake on that page describing the st412 it should be 45degrees.
If you delve deeper into the website you'll find a correct description.
My box of Minitrains branded track contains 8 45deg double curves (and some straights).
HTH
Thanks!
Quote from: GraemeD on June 15, 2014, 08:55
Follow the 'Latest News' link on their web page and click on the link in the 'New Track Range for OO/HO Narrow Gauge Range' track paragraph:
"New Track Range for OO/HO Narrow Gauge Range
...
The geometry of the track system is the same at the Setrack N gauge range, so if modellers want a matching turnout they can use the current ST-5 and ST-6, but we do intend to product 00-9 Setrack turnouts at a later stage."
This might work: http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=OOHO (http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=OOHO)
I do hope that Peco do not just use the ST-5/ST-6 rails as a basis for the 009 set track points as they are dead frog.
Peco went down that road back in the 1970
Quote from: B.Meldon on June 16, 2014, 08:25
I do hope that Peco do not just use the ST-5/ST-6 rails as a basis for the 009 set track points as they are dead frog.
Peco went down that road back in the 1970
Peco are NOT stupid despite what some appear to think. Having produced to 009 Setrack at the behest of Minitrains they will be well aware that most of the locos that will use their track will be small four-coupled and dead frog points would not be a sensible move. Th eN gauge points were designed many years ago for six-coupled locos in an era when most points from any manufacturer were dead frog. Indeed I think it is likely that when the molds for the N gauge points have to be replaced they will be re-engineered as live frog. I do wish our prophets of doom would stop making baseless negative predictions. Have faith!
Rod
Well said, Rod, I'm sure Peco would not do dead frogs on any future points in their range.
Roger
I've a test track of the new Peco 009 setrack, with a passing loop serviced by some of the dreaded ST-5/6 turnouts. My F&C locos both walk across the points at their lowest speed, as set by the latsest Minitrains pwm controller, without so much as a flicker of the headlight, but only in reverse. When walking forward both stop, dead. WHY the difference? Any ideas? Or a cure even.
richard 6080
Quote from: gallopingalice on June 16, 2014, 12:39
I've a test track of the new Peco 009 setrack, with a passing loop serviced by some of the dreaded ST-5/6 turnouts. My F&C locos both walk across the points at their lowest speed, as set by the latsest Minitrains pwm controller, without so much as a flicker of the headlight, but only in reverse. When walking forward both stop, dead. WHY the difference? Any ideas? Or a cure even.
Richard 6080
Obviously the other wheel on the same side as the dead frog is not in contact with the rail and that is why it stops.
This could be as a result of an uneven rail head or a slight twisting of the axles in the chassis. You may also find that one wheel is on a rail joint or something like that.
With the best will in the world I have found that single wheel pickup on a loco is not enough for reliable slow running and that is what you get with a dead frog.
This is exactly why Peco changed the 009 points in the 1970
As I have said before I find all this rather surprising. One of my test tracks is laid in Setrack, an impulse buy!, and my Corris 4 with pickups on the driving wheels only and a coupled wheelbase of 12mm negotiates them perfectly. Even my Ruston chassis with a 10.5mm wheelbase work all right with them only stalling very occasionally. All, of course, also run perfectly through 20 year old (live frog) Peco points on Corris, as anyone who has seen the layout will tell you. My tracklaying is nothing special, in fact I am quite pleased with some of the prototypical lurches and wobbles. The locos are not compensated or sprung in any way and axle bearings have at least as much slop as commercial chassis. Mystifying.
Rod
That does it!
The Minitrains WW1 0-8-0 and a Grafar 2-6-2 tank both stall on a Peco N gauge Setrack point, at very low speed, and hiccup otherwise.
Its as though the frog zone lifts one side off contact completely. Can the flanges be bottoming in the plastic slot? On locos they are deeper than wagons.
Anyway, we'll just have to be patient and hope that Peco get a move on with a live frog NG version.
Richard
You could try filing or scraping the plastic away from the flange area, adjacent to the frog itself; it only takes the minutest of lifting to stop contact on several wheels. I would not remove any from the area in front of the frog, however, as this may lead to the flanges dropping into the gap, and thus cause the same effect in the opposite sense. In any case, ensure that both wheels and track are kept clean (despite Rod's denigration of his tracklaying, I believe that he keeps his track scrupulously clean, which helps the general excellent running I observe!)
When Stan Williams and I exhibit our layouts at shows visitors are very complimentary regarding the running qualities of our models. As Tim says it is all down to cleanliness of track and wheels. Whether you use setrack or flexi always clean before a running session. Clean wheels on rolling stock is not to be ignored as well as it is amazing how often derailments occur due to build up of dirt on wagon or coach wheels.
Regarding what Tim says about removing material from the frog area we did that to deepen them because the older Egger and Arnold chassis had deep flanges thus lifting the driving wheels off the rail head. The new Minitrains stock have much finer flanges and should be more reliable through the flangeways.
Roger
Despite what Tim says I very rarely clean any track. Firstly I don't like the way burnished rail looks bigger on the head than it is, it's quite big enough already and secondly I use the (sometimes) reviled Railzip, with which I have no connection except as a satisfied customer. I am well aware it doesn't suit everyone and as many people swear at it as swear by it. However I certainly regard it as the best
Rod has mentioned this before. Just spend some time looking at his layout working at an exhibition and it clearly works well.
However I do not know if railzip will have a detrimental effect on the adhesion of a 009/H0e loco?
I know that cleaning the track with a track rubber will have a positive effect on the adhesion. In other words the locos will pull more up a given grade without slipping after I clean the track. Perhaps this is as a result of slightly scratching the rail surface?
I do not use the course track rubbers supplied by Peco and others I use a fine grain electrical contact cleaning rubber. I used to get these from Maplin
Perhaps I should make clear that my principles as outlined above are not the RIGHT way or indeed ONLY way to do things. They are just MY way, which works for me but may not work for everyone. The last thing I would want to do is lay down 'This is the only way to do things and you must do it this way.'
Rod
I've had some interesting times in the past with the N gauge and 009 points. generally I found that checking the back-to-backs of the loco wheels and deepening the flangeways solved most problems. I deepened the flangeways using the blade of a small screwdriver - this dealt nicely with the depth without damaging the 'rail' side. All of the points on the L&TR are now over 35 years old, some over 40 and still working - a good testament to Peco, I think.
Do you have any dead frog points in use David?
I think Peco changed the 009 points to electrofrog in 1976. (But I will have to check this date?)
So if they are all electrofrog 9 inch 009 points then they must be newer than that.
I also have many of the old 9 inch electrofrog 009 Points in use on Meanderbahn not one has failed in 30 years. (But I do have frog polarity switches fitted.)
We did have a few of the old 9 inch points that had no connection from the blade to the frog, but these were brand new so were just returned to the retailer as faulty.
The 12 inch points were first available in late 1981 and my opinion then was that they were not as good as the previous 9 inch points. Apart from the obvious increase in radii that is.
My apologies Brian - only just seen this.
Date of construction = 1975 using some pointwork from an earlier layout so oh my goodness yes, there are many dead frog points (which my Port class Hunslet is finding now she's on trials!).
The storage loops which were laid about 1977 have a mixture of the (then) new 9" rad 009 electrofrog points and set track dead frog points.
Some older points were replaced with 9" electrofrog points and all the 18" rad points are dead frog.
I still rely on the switch blade/check rail contact for continuity; I have some DPST toggle switches in stock and as the points eventually succumb to anno domini I wire them in rather than go to the trouble of replacement. That would only happen now in the case of severe mechanical failure (such as happened once many years ago at Llammynach when a point blade parted company with the rest of the point!)
Are the 12" points REALLY that old??? Good grief!
Quote from: B.Meldon on June 25, 2014, 15:53
I think Peco changed the 009 points to electrofrog in 1976. (But I will have to check this date?)
The 12 inch points were first available in late 1981........
I have now checked the dates:
The first of the Peco electrofrog 009 9 inch radii points were available in October 1975. (Previously they were dead frog.)
The 12 inch 009 Peco points were first available in October 1980.
Brian Meldon
If only I'd been a bit slower with my layout building! By October 1975 I'd already got a load of track down and I'd run my local shop out of both 009 and N gauge 9" rad pointwork! When it came to laying the storage loops I didn't have the space for the slightly longer 009 points and had to use N gauge set track!
I had an 'interesting time' replacing set track points at Llanmynach for 009 electro frogs when I needed to, due to the difference in length. Thank goodness they were still 9" at that time!
Running the layout of a frequent basis this year has thrown up a host of problems associated with my rather dodgy early track laying!!