009 Society Members Forum

Modelling => Locomotives => Topic started by: tedp on December 29, 2013, 12:45

Title: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: tedp on December 29, 2013, 12:45
Recently Tom Bell (Tebee) announced three simple 3D printed body shells for the Kato 11-103 chassis. All are fitted with tram skirts, and following more advanced modelling projects I described recently I decided to show how to turn one of these into a useful and attractive 009 locomotive that could be tackled by any novice modeller with a minimum of tools.

The project will advance only in fits and starts as I still have another loco to complete, and I have several distractions from modelling currently claiming my time. Here is what I have done up to now.

Fitting the chassis

The first thing I came across is that the Kato chassis I had was not the 11-103 but the slightly longer 11-104. I set it up by cutting two of the location lugs off the Kato chassis, so it fitted the footplate of the body shell. Note that it may be easier to cut away a bit of footplate so the lugs can be used to clip the body to the chassis, but I thought of that too late. Perhaps it can be reversed so I can use the lugs on the other side. Fitting the chassis under the body was 5 minutes work!

Here is what it looks like on the chassis. It's a fairly tall loco due to the fact the cab had to be sited on the footplate rather than be stepped down. In the design Tom lifted the cab and the boiler a few mm. It's taller than most 009 stock, however I have been casting glances at the Chivers Innisfail coach kit I bought recently. This is a tall model as well - they might look very nice together!

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5874.jpg&hash=3d0735984e5ef5b2485388b4f4c8eef26de080bd)

It is an attractive design with some Kerr Stuart heritage, but I also thought of this photo which was pulished earlier on the NGRM forum - a skirted saddle tank on the Stony Stratford tram, with a high pitched boiler not unlike Tom's body shell.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oldstratforduponavon.com%2Fsitebuilder%2Fimages%2Fstonystrattram-620x413.jpg&hash=525049b990e0906e131ca010020dd90f8b48a281)

source: http://www.oldstratforduponavon.com/sitebuilder/images/stonystrattram-620x413.jpg (http://www.oldstratforduponavon.com/sitebuilder/images/stonystrattram-620x413.jpg)

I checked various other chassis (Fleischmann 0-4-0T and the 6-wheel diesel) against the saddle tank body and they may fit provided you remove some of the footplate, but the worm or the pinion on the motor will be painfully visible. So I suggest it is best to use the Kato chassis for which it was intended. The side tank loco body (another one by Tebee) will offer more scope since the works are invisible.

Up to now the chassis is loose inside the body. But before seeing about fitting it securely I decided to ballast the loco body as it is very light otherwise.

Ballasting the body

Using ordinary scissors I cut strip lead from 1.5mm roof flashing, to put some weight into the body. After cutting, the strips are flattened in a vice. I tried getting something into the boiler but found it was filled solid. Only later, when scratching the inside of the smokebox, I found it was part filled with powdery swarf which may be due to the printing process. So it may be possible to put in more lead than I did.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5888.jpg&hash=fbc83ae9f737c12ec62abab7b3c6f4d436eeacc6)

Basically what I did was use the space behind the skirts to fit lead strips. In addition there is space under the bunker and in the smokebox. All was stuck down by contact glue and/or cyanoacrylate gel. Note that contact glue may eventually distort some plastics. Since this stuff is very resilient it may work out OK. The loco now weighs a respectable 50g. The chassis now is a push fit into the body as it is pinched by the lead behind the skirts!

I will conclude this first post by showing two more photos of the model. These are unkind close-ups of the rough surface of the printed model, which I will tackle next when I get round to work on it. For the moment I have a working engine with a very 'rusty' finish. As I write this, it happily runs circuits round Rae Bridge with two coaches in tow!

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5891.jpg&hash=269311333135a2a8aed044fa98421490e206b1dc)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5894.jpg&hash=b7daef9839c3968d42c3d986e9a4c68bad526a40)

To be continued somewhere in the future.
Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: tedp on December 30, 2013, 08:03
Contrary to my plans, since the weather was good yesterday, I took the saddle tank outside for the first stage in priming, smoothing and painting it. The approach I will try is rather similar to that of varnishing a wooden boat, of which I have some experience. You put a few coats on before smoothing the surface with wet-and-dry. This tends to fill the low spots before you start smoothing the surface.

So I sprayed on two coats of grey nitrocellulose primer. Stage one shows that the brown dye Tom uses on his models still comes through the paint:

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5897.jpg&hash=c3f8424f1fabd67b9b7c3aec4b8af16137f177ad)

Stage two shows it is filling a little already.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5901.jpg&hash=4c841434059a6b486560e18aa600b3b635e7391c)

Since this simple model is devoid of rivets and other fine detail, it should be easy to smooth. I expect the wet-and-dry treatment will work on the primer, taking the paint off the grainy spots more easily than it would be to smooth the 3D printed material itself.

Rubbing down is done with a small square of no. 400 wet-and dry. The best way to do it is wet, so have a saucer of water at hand and dip the wet-and-dry in it every so often. Make sure you touch the edges of the roof and the cab:

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5911.jpg&hash=17370860ff61cb27486d40fb937af994e1482d1a)

Here is the result after rubbing it down:

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5916.jpg&hash=12950b95839d72f75a66080ee2e3a45f8b46db28)

And now after re-spraying:

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5919.jpg&hash=808a3a126b0f27ee4763072318dee9d5967d1460)

We're not quite there but it is improving. One more rub down and I think we can start painting in earnest!

The thread was also published on NGRM, where it provoked some discussion about the model's proportions. Tom and I have been in touch about that - he had concerns about the cab becoming too low if he'd remove the 'step' from the original Kerr-Stuart based model which this tram body was based on. He has now produced an adapted design which has removed the high-pitched look.

Another discussion was about better filling primers for 3D printed models. Suggestions were made of Tamiya liquid surface primer and Mr Surfacer 1200.

However I will persevere with the present project since I feel it can be made into a pleasing model. Watch this space!
Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: gtmspyder on December 30, 2013, 10:38
Good morning Ted,  I'm glad I did not have to remove that much of the printing striations on my Kattie tram loco, or my bout of depression over my finished efforts would have kicked in a lot sooner. :o  It doesn't take much to bring on a downer I'm afraid. :-[

Good luck with the fill and smooth ::)

I have been working on my Double Fairlie for a bit, and it is about ready for it's first splash of matt varnish before I fit all the fancy Brass bits I've bought.  I thought doing it this way instead of the way I built the Kattie might be better.

I've ordered some lining decals ready to reline the Kattie, I live in hope ;D

I'll not post any pictures here as I don't want to interrupt your thread any more.

Kind regards, have a good new year,

Brian.
Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: tedp on December 30, 2013, 11:50
Good morning Brian, glad to see you back. You are right, this particular print is a bit grainy and it needs some work, but it's not difficult to do. But it's still far less smooth than your Katie tram loco, the finish of which I have taken as my goal.  ;)

And best wishes to you for the new year as well. May we enjoy a lot of peaceful modelling!

Here is the latest update on the saddle tank, from which you will see there are still a few areas to rub down further - I have to do my work better than that! But the difference from the earlier stage is marked. And note the close-up with a light vertically above is merciless!

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5930.jpg&hash=c9f66a2eb4d06da51b0fd57c5887264d5020ea84)

Compare this to the last one and you'll see the difference:

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5919.jpg&hash=808a3a126b0f27ee4763072318dee9d5967d1460)

To be continued!
Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: tedp on December 30, 2013, 13:29
First paint - warts and all!

The first paint has gone on, and immediately the paint-sucking properties of a 3d print are evident. I smoothed the primer again with wet and dry before trying this, but still the paint will be sucked in as if you are painting plaster. Don't worry about this - painting a 3d printed model means paint, rub down and paint again. I told you it was like varnishing a boat!

Here is the first result.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5931.jpg&hash=de8d233c197ecc9db435443994a7c72ab2a3e028)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5935.jpg&hash=32950e7e994b2b2825cf40ac20e729cebea5ba25)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5939.jpg&hash=7c746eadfbc75fd43888f52025ab5ebdd6b172bd)

I used Revell no. SM363, a deep green which I thought appropriate for a tram engine. This kind of paint will need to dry for a longer period than the primer, so all I may be doing later today is put on some black on the boiler, footplate, roof and smokebox, and red on the buffer beams. The model will need to be rubbed down again and painted a second time. Enamel paint will fill the holes better than quick-drying primer, but you pay the price with a longer drying time.

To be continued!
Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: tedp on December 30, 2013, 14:57
And here a view showing the basic colour scheme on the loco. The green areas need re-work: rubbing down, then they need to be re-painted with a coat of thinned green which will flow more evenly. This is often a good idea for the last coat of paint - it will look better.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5940.jpg&hash=2993710cc060f0766770cc163319d7c024931470)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5944.jpg&hash=9a021e141b9d9b9d377fbb6701cc3be186548fdd)

Now the loco has to be left alone for at least 24 hours.
Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: gtmspyder on December 30, 2013, 16:56
Can you wait that long Ted? ;D

You will no doubt have seen my last post re my varnishing disaster, what a bummer, sick as a Parrot comes to mind. >:(

Regards,

BrianT.
Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: tedp on December 30, 2013, 17:19
Yes I read of your troubles, gave some advice on NGRM. It's very bad luck to say the least. If possible I'd strip it down and try again.
Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: cnw6847 on December 30, 2013, 21:34
Its coming along really nicely.

I'm looking forward to starting my sidetank.

Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: tedp on December 31, 2013, 16:48
Thanks Richard - here is the sequel.

Today I put the wet-and-dry to the loco body again - only the green areas, as these needed more work. The matt anthracite black seemed OK so I didn't touch that. Again, I used water with the wet-and-dry as this produces a finer surface.

After a few minutes, the loco looked like this. Horrible, don't you think?

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5948.jpg&hash=58354e7e626edf8c94b40194fea6eccac5d19aaf)

I put the model under the tap to get rid of the fine swarf and put it on the radiator to dry. Then I thinned the green a little with a drop of white spirit, and set to work. Disaster! there proved to be dust all over the model, probably due to the radiator, or the dirty thinners I had washed the brush in. Halfway I stopped and found a rag with white spirit to wipe it off. I washed the model again, with water and washing up liquid, and put it in the wind outside to dry out. Then I re-tried it and the result was rather better:

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5953.jpg&hash=8d4a387ae7110374b235a1859c476a2c50bec05e)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery54%2Fimages%2FIMG_5954.jpg&hash=b900df98ea54e4b1fafac413ae46e29474c6ed76)

Note that the shiny parts of the chassis have not yet been camouflaged, and there is no additional detail. This is the model in its simplest form with nothing else done but painting. It may well be that if this is your first model, you are satisfied with it without further work. I will however take it further than this by adding some detail in the days to come.

A close-up look reveals the rounded contours of a 3d printed model - quite different from the sharp edges of a whitemetal and certainly an etched model. This can only be avoided when using more expensive printing materials and equipment. But I'm pleased with the result so far. At a distance it will pass muster.

This will be my final post of 2013 and I will take opportunity to wish you all the best for New Year's Eve or Hogmanay (depending on what part of the world you are in) - good cheer to all!
Title: Re: 3D printed saddle tank - a novice project
Post by: MickT on January 01, 2014, 12:29
Happy New Year Ted!.
The finish on the loco looks very good now, it seems as if you have hit upon the right method for getting this type of body prepared.

Compare the last photo above with the first photo in the topic to see the huge difference in surface texture.

Mick