During a rare visit to the UK during my seafaring days the mid 1970s, I obtained a Centre Models Leek & Manifold carriage kit. This was assembled a number of years later, using the original bogies and wheels. As the carriage was huge even by C&DR standards, it needed to be modified to go round my curves. The overhanging roof ends were slightly cut down (rounded off), and the bogies were moved inward a little. The running properties of the bogies were questionable, with plastic wheels in whitemetal bearings. This, combined with the weight of the vehicle (which has whitemetal frames) made general use impossible.
The carriage was a white elephant and it never saw much use, except for determining track clearances during layout construction.
Some time ago I had an idea to build a new train for the Dunalistair Mail service, and naturally I looked at the Leek & Manifold carriage. I even went as far as making a mock-up photo showing three of the same in Dunalistair station and trying to fool Mick with it:
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Still, the carriage looked good with the West Clare brake in tow, as long as it kept away from the curve round the headland:
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I also investigated alternative bogies and even was offered two more unbuilt kits by a good friend, but after a time I came to my senses - the vehicles would look ridiculous on the curve out of Dunalistair. Also, it would be a break with the traditional passenger livery, although Edwardian railways often went to strange lengths to draw the public. Good examples are the opulent carriages of the Campbeltown line, and the six-wheel saloons on the West Clare.
I took the vehicle apart for inspection and I found the glue had become brittle - it had to be rebuilt entirely. The photo below shows three bogies in a row, left to right a Roundhouse H0n3 bogie with the wheels pushed in, a Chivers bogie which comes close to scale, and an original whitemetal bogie. I rejected the Chivers bogies, despite their nice running, as they are plastic and I had my doubts to them standing up to the weight of the vehicle, in the long term.
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I did some work on modifying and fitting the Roundhouse bogies, but after a while I lost interest and packed the pieces away in a box. In the photo below the extent of the necessary surgery can be seen. New bogie pivots made out of the cross pieces of the old bogies, huge chunks milled out of the whitemetal framing, etc.:
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Anyway, with the Leek & Manifold Kitson under construction, I took new interest in the carriage, and I decided to pick up where I left it. I re-fitted the ornate balcony ironwork, and scaled down a scan of an interior plan so I could make drop-in interior units:
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Here are the interior units under construction:
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I used 0.6mm styrene to build up all the pieces on a thin black styrene base. The braces under the seats are sections of 3.2 x 2.0mm Evergreen strip.
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Here is one unit temporarily fitted in place:
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Yesterday night the etched platform steps, which were falling apart, were reconstructed. I cleaned off all the glue and paint from the slot-and-tab joints and soldered the lower steps between the uprights:
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The trick here was to clip the stepping board between tweezers held in a small vice. Tinning the ends using flux and a small soldering iron came next, followed by fitting the uprights to the step as shown. It took some fiddling with the soldering iron, and I needed several re-tries.
Then I clipped the upper step between the uprights - this is a slot-and-tab fitting. If the soldering is good enough you can spring the uprights apart a little and simply clip the upper board in.
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Here is a shot of the L&M coach with the steps fitted. The non-prototypical bogies are set back a little from the ends, but the wheel diameter is correct for the prototype, according to the drawing I have in the Oakwood Press book by Jenkins.
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This is looking excellent, Ted; well done. A full train of them will look superb!
Thanks, David - although a full train will probably never materialise. The carriage is only intended as a companion to the Leek & Manifold loco, I doubt if it will enter normal service...
Ted
The photo of the three L&M coaches with 'Brahma' shows a very colonial type train. Many of your loco stock is also colonial as is much of the stock Stan and I run on 'Gairloch'. We don't have any colonial style coaches but if you ever come across two more L&M coaches grab them if you can and make that photo a reality. The scene you created is too good.
Roger
Quote from: tedp on September 16, 2013, 15:42
Thanks, David - although a full train will probably never materialise. The carriage is only intended as a companion to the Leek & Manifold loco, I doubt if it will enter normal service...
Quote from: Krizzy on September 16, 2013, 19:25
Ted
The photo of the three L&M coaches with 'Brahma' shows a very colonial type train. Many of your loco stock is also colonial as is much of the stock Stan and I run on 'Gairloch'. We don't have any colonial style coaches but if you ever come across two more L&M coaches grab them if you can and make that photo a reality. The scene you created is too good.
Roger
What? Am I to understand that there is only ONE L&M coach on the C&DR? Have I been fooled?
Mick
I agree the mockup photo of the train in Dunalistair looks tantalising (which was why I dangled it below Mick's nose, and he bit!), but despite all the clamouring for more L&M carriages, I have to disappoint you. Yes I have even been offered extra coaches by a friend, but they really are too long as can be seen in the first photo below.
After several frustrating days, and even having to replace the rear coupling on the L&M locomotive, this morning finally I managed to put working couplings on the L&MVR carriage. Fitting couplings always is very fiddly and the work needs to be very accurate, but this one was a real pain.
The problem with this vehicle is its huge length - 10cms between bogie pivots, and 35mm length of the drawbars beyond the bogie pivots. My railway is by no means flat. It has several nasty 1:35 gradients and 22.5cm radius curves, most of which is hidden away behind the backscenes where it should. My other (short) rolling stock runs without protest, but this one proved different.
The couplings have to swing quite far on sharp curves. Here is a photo of the one spot where a sharp curve comes out into the open, showing the amount of overhang that has to be allowed for, if I want to run it over the railway:
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Initially I had fitted drawbars to the bogie pivots. I put horizontal guides under them to keep the couplings level without a chance of them drooping. They were mounted on phosphor bronze shim which even allowed for them to lift so a vehicle with a fixed coupling could couple up automatically. Alas, despite the gradual transitions I have from level to inclined track I found the length of the carriage was too much - the vehicle end tended to drop just enough for a coupling to drop below the other one and it was left standing in several spots.
The answer to this is to fit drawbars to the bogies, so the vehicle end may drop, but the bogie will stay more or less level and the coupling may drop a little but not enough to bother. But the next challenge is to allow for some sideplay, as the drawbar will not be unable to assume a different angle from the bogie. I made up nickel silver drawbar extensions for the bogies as follows:
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The T shaped piece will drop over the bogie crosspiece and can be glued in place. At the other end, a piece of hexagonal brass tube (square or round will suffice) has been fitted on a pivot made from a tiny brass nail. A wire 'vang' is fitted to the end of the bogie extension so the coupling won't drop or swing away more than a few degrees. The brass tube can move left and right and will take the shank of an N gauge coupling. Note how the extended bogie is fitted on a screw pivot, and also note the sideplay allowed to the coupling:
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The unsightly blobs and bare steps have been blown up to about 3x life size - a very unkind close-up. Now the end of the vehicle looks like this:
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I test ran the vehicle both ways over the layout, behind the Kitson, and turned it round so it could be proven it would run whatever way it had been put on the layout. Regrettably it won't couple up automatically, but it negotiates every curve and gradient transition without protesting. Although I had to cut some more whitemetal from the big frames under the floow, as one bogie wheel proved to be forced neatly over the rail on one or two curves....
Now the way is clear for finishing, completing the interior and re-painting the running gear!
Here are some interior photos - I decided to use some dark red fabric I had available, instead of hunting for something orange and black in a scale pattern, as the original coaches are said to have had... The red stuff looks a little coarse, but with the roof on it's not too bad.
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A few very ancient Airfix figures (painted at least three decades ago) give an idea of some passenger traffic. Must be a very quiet day!
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I expect (hope) that with the roof on, the upholstery won't look too bad...
At last... the carriage is completed, excepting perhaps some detail to the small ventilation windows along the top. I suspect these were fitted with orange glass. Some of them should be modelled in open position, but in view of the one-piece sides with printed detail on a transparent sheet, this will be a real challenge.
First, here are a few photos.
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More trial running proved the couplings had been pushed in too far, so this was rectified. One had to be cut off and the remains of the shank in the pipe drilled out so a new one could be fitted. Another problem proved to be the vacuum pipes, which had to be flattened and bent out of the way to prevent them hitting those on the engine. I know there should be two of them each side, but the other pair probably is on another vehicle elsewhere on the layout.
I have had numerous suggestions to make up an entire train of these vehicles, but to be honest they would be a little awkward in general service. What you really need is a layout with scale curves. Also, my use of N gauge couplings, which is a great help in shorter vehicles due to their superior qualities in running and shunting, isn't a happy one in a vehicle where you don't have space to fit a sprung coupling pocket. The couplings cannot be tilted up unless you remove the buffer beam. I think that in this case, a Bemo type coupling would be far better, as it has only the loop that needs to tilt up. But still, it would have to be fitted on a bogie extension, as even Peco mainline points and very easy curves will make reliable operation a challenge otherwise.
The carriage and the locomotive will be taken along to the Convention at Kegsworth. The loco I'm afraid still isn't painted and detailed, but there is little time left to do so.
I hope you liked this little project!
An excellent project Ted, many thanks for sharing it with us.
Roger
Very nice Ted, a lot of skilled and fiddly work has gone into producing what is, a lovely model.
Regarding the possible coloured glass ventilation windows? You might be able to achieve this with the colours supplied to simulate leaded and stained glass for home use, just a thought.
Kind regards,
BrianT.