009 Society Members Forum

Prototype information => General => Topic started by: danny on August 30, 2013, 22:21

Title: Minimum radius?
Post by: danny on August 30, 2013, 22:21
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/data/dallas_m/20113270112_Decauville40cm.jpg

Can anyone find a prototype curve radius smaller than this? It's 40cm gauge Decauville equipment.
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: Cambridge Paul on August 31, 2013, 05:54
I don't think so, but this could put a whole new meaning into garden railways ~ modelling at 12 inches to the foot, or should I say 1 centimetre to 1 centimetre?
There may be some equally tight curves on pit head gear track for mine tubs, pushed by hand. TP may know morejavascript:void(0);
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: Graeme Dunbar on August 31, 2013, 13:48
It needs to be on a baseboard. Everyone knows that laying track on the floor means fluff gets in the mechanism. ;D
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: danny on September 03, 2013, 11:30
Quote from: Cambridge Paul on August 31, 2013, 05:54
I don't think so, but this could put a whole new meaning into garden railways ~ modelling at 12 inches to the foot, or should I say 1 centimetre to 1 centimetre?

It says on Small Layouts Scrapbook ( http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page12/ ) that the circles are 13ft diameter. Not sure there were that many locos though, it was mostly hand worked on 40cm gauge. Can anyone find a picture of a 40cm gauge loco? I wonder what the minimum radius was for 60cm gauge?
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: DeadHorse on September 03, 2013, 16:16
Why bother with radiusises (radii-i) when you can simple arrange four wagon turntables together & keep things all square?  :)
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: B.Meldon on September 04, 2013, 09:21
I have seen hand worked systems with tighter curves than that. I do not know the radii but the short wheelbase four wheel wagons used would turn through 90 degrees in little more than their own length!
In fact curves like this were not unusual in the mining industry.

Brian Meldon
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: tebee on September 04, 2013, 21:33
The reason you often see very sharp curves in mining is because they use small inside framed wagons.

These have wheels which are free to turn on their axles unlike an ordinary wagon, which means you can spin one round in the spot !
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: B.Meldon on September 05, 2013, 09:20
I agree, it is all down to the design of the rolling stock.

You would not expect WHR Russell to go round a 76 foot radii curve for example because it was designed for 120 foot radii curves, but a smaller 0-4-0 could with out any problems.

But wait a 76 foot curve in 4mm scale works out at a 12 inch curve and many of us use these all the time! Some even use tighter 9 inch curves with these larger locos. Remember before 1981 the only 009 points available had a 9 inch radii and for many 009 has always been about getting the maximum railway in the space available.

I think it is all about what looks correct on a model and how much space you have rather than copying a prototype curve radii.

There are exceptions, but getting 009 models to negotiate tight curves is not easy. With the examples mentioned above the short wheel base of the wagons required to negotiate the very tight curves would, in 009, cause them not to run parallel to the track when propelling them.

Brian Meldon
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: danny on September 20, 2013, 20:50
Doing more research, it seems that before this track was preserved a little O&K diesel used to run on it.
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: tebee on December 15, 2013, 14:20
Here is a picture of a similar curve .

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_CvaTNHu_uU/S4loTeP4Q8I/AAAAAAAAAMk/iWUtgKGqBJ8/s576/n_a%2520%25283%2529.jpg)

And a passenger train going round it

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Q50Ee7RdfQA/Tf-XahG-m9I/AAAAAAAAC-g/CbhWgkuoYBg/s800/IMG_0105.JPG)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zv_j4FCzaS0/Tf-XhbY3t3I/AAAAAAAAC-k/z00Fgo3eMbU/s800/IMG_0106.JPG)

More in this album https://picasaweb.google.com/112594206815555128242/TduB?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Have some more pics will add them later when I find them

this is the Tramway de Boutdeville at the Association des Chemins de Fer des C
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: danny on December 27, 2013, 17:55
Quote from: tebee on December 15, 2013, 14:20
Here is a picture of a similar curve .

What gauge and radius is this?
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: Hugh Norwood on December 27, 2013, 20:29
That green loco looks like it's on a Kato chassis... So I guess that's 9mm track?
:)
Title: Re: Minimum radius?
Post by: tebee on December 27, 2013, 23:06
It's 40cm gauge - I've not measured the curve, but the coaches are less than 4ft long each and 3 of them fill up most of a 90 degree segment of the curve, so I would guess it's the same 13ft radius track mentioned above - it's very sharp!

However I have measured a 10 ft radius curve on an 18 inch gauge works tramway, but it was hand worked.

Tom