I'm looking at building a small 0-4-0 tank loco, most probably find a kit..
What's the n-drive chassis like? I'm comparing it with the more expensive minitrains version. Other than the price, I prefer the motor mount as it would hide in the smoke box and not in the cab.
Comments?
N-drive have a picture of 'Cackler' on their web site, which I quite like and is only
If you can get a chassis from Nev please let me know; I have had one on order since Expong 2011
I am fully aware of the problems Nev has had but I am a bit concerned about references to N Drive in various forums when actual availability is so protracted. I am aware this may seem like whingeing but at some point a business has to act like a business even a hobby business
Peter Smith
Ah! I didn't know that.
I had seen the info about his house move, but it didn't mention they were not shipping.
Have you made contact? I wouldn't have been waiting since 2011!?!
Peter, I'd get in touch with Neville as it is quite possible that your order has got misplaced in the house move or lost in the post. He may not be aware that you are still waiting so I'd have thought a polite reminder may be needed.
Scott, I have a couple of these bought from Neville's stand when I have seen him so they are 'from stock' rather than special orders. They are the 'Bachmann replacement' type and both run very well under two of the three Chivers "Woolwich" Avonside 0-4-0s running on Latham's Brewery. The motor is in the firebox and does project into the cab slightly but there is enough room to stand crew on the footplate. Overall I have been very pleased and intend to upgrade the third one still running on its Bachmann chassis at some point, and likewise the Ibertren powered locos.
From memory of the Cackler I built on an Ibertren chassis (the chassis the kit is designed for) the motor does not end up in the cab but roughly where the firebox would be. If you wanted the motor at the smoke box end you would need to order a chassis from Neville with the cylinders reversed (i.e. motor and cylinders at the same end). As an alternative to the Ibertren (or N-Drive) it should be possible to fit a Fleischmann 0-4-0 chassis to Cackler as it is very similar (though not identical) to the Ibertren, and may be slightly easier to get hold of.
Which ever route you take you will need to modify the kit to take a different chassis. If you were not too keen on doing this then it might be worth contacting the Sales Officer and getting your name down on a wants list for an Ibertren 0-4-0.
Julien
I do not wish to make my problem an issue in this forum but would say I have made a number of polite reminders to Ndrive and spoken to Neville at meets he has attended; he simply talks of his order backlog. I am sorry I raised this but frustration wins sometimes. Can we close it now please
Peter Smith
I'm more interested in a good chassis and then picking a kit to put on it.
You say the Fleischmann is a good option. I don't see any on the 009 sales list, or on a certain auction site. Are there other options I am unaware of?
I liked the idea of the ndrive, as it appear to be a 'stock' item. New, supporting someone etc, etc. It also sounds like you like the chassis, replacing other aging ones.
I knew 009 locos were a black art, but it's looking harder than I thought!
The availability of new steam 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 ready to run 9mm gauge chassis is very limited indeed at the moment.
In fact I think the only one available new is the Minitrains one.
All the others are either out of production or effectively imposable to obtain.
Fleischmann are not making the 0-4-0 at the moment, there are a few model shops with some left in stock. They retail for about
Just had a mail back from ndrive. The Long W/B 16mm 0-4-0 is on a long back order, but others are available..
2nd thought..
There are 3 locos with an 0-6-0 Minitrix chassis in the society sales .. What are these like?
There are two basic versions of the Minitrix 0-6-0 chassis.
The first, and most common type is the 'dock tank' chassis that looks like this:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2FMinitrix%2520Dock%2520Tank%2F2011_0119Chassis0001.jpg&hash=32cbdc16e6cd05c29df5170fc84a8c247da35eb6)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2FMinitrix%2520Dock%2520Tank%2F2011_0119Chassis0005.jpg&hash=bdeaf211ae5aff4cad5e7f2e510574948e41c944)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2FMinitrix%2520Dock%2520Tank%2F2011_0119Chassis0002.jpg&hash=838441cd88f3ee83007b8058c8bce5b16aaaa170)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi663.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu358%2FM-e-l-l-o-w%2FMinitrix%2520Dock%2520Tank%2F2011_0119Chassis0004.jpg&hash=d8522aa4a32703d7ce99af98e0863dd5dd6e5d14)
As can be seen the main down side of this chassis is the disk type wheels and the very basic valve gear also the middle wheels are smaller than the outside ones.
There are three versions of the dock tank chassis.
The first type had brass gears and all steel shafts on the gears.
The second type have plastic gears and plastic gear shafts.
The third type has plastic gears and brass bearings on the shafts and axles.
This last type also has a brass insert on the spur gear on the rear axle and unfortunately this gear often splits.
All three types suffer from ware in the chassis block that causes excessive movement in the axles. This can be repaired but it is not easy.
The motors are also a bit hit and miss, some run very well. Others take a lot of power to get them to start and some run better one way than the other. About one in five are good in my experience. They also suffer from burn outs and weakening of the brush spring.
Although they all look the same there are actually three different sizes of motor used, the difference being in the height. This can be critical for some 009 applications, although it is fine for most 009 kits.
Replacement motors can be fitted, but this requires modification to the mounting holes and changing the worm over.
In summery you need to make sure that the chassis is not too badly worn, that it has a good spur gear that is tight on the rear axle and that the motor starts at low power settings and runs the same in both directions.
The other type of Minitrix 0-6-0 chassis was fitted to the N gauge German class 89 loco:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.bidorbuy.co.za%2Fuser_images%2F022%2F2145022%2F2145022_130127202031_011_%2528800x602%2529.jpg&hash=4be46c48e0a6c35bac4f2a65f9e3435d1faa92ac)
This version is quite a lot better than the Dock tank, it has brass gears down the centre of the chassis, proper spokes in the wheels and more detailed valve gear. It does however still suffer with broken spur gears and uses the same type of motor as the dock tank chassis.
So in this case you need to make sure the spur gear is tight on the rear axle, and that the motor starts to run at low power settings.
(I do have one of these and I ca take some photos of the chassis if needed.)
Brian Meldon
I ordered an 0-4-0 SWB from N-drive at the end of April, and it has at last arrived (last week in fact). They did not take payment until about a month ago though. It is a little noisy, but it runs very well - as long as there is a body on it.
It is good that you have your chassis, but for many three months may be a bit too long to wait!
The noise in the N drive chassis is caused by the distance between the mounting for the motor and the worm drive. On many it is worse one direction to the other. Had the motor mounting been at the same end of the motor as the worm gear there would be no problem, but that would have made the electrical connections difficult.
Several other N gauge chassis have this same problem. The Minitrix 2-6-2 for example.
If you add packing to the body so that the front end of the motor is tight in the body it drastically reduces or completely stops the noise.
You can also glue the motor in place on the chassis, but I would not recommend doing this as the glue may get where it will do harm and it would probably make any warrantee invalid.
Brian Meldon
as usual a succinct, to the point and helpful post, Brian
I understand and am susceptible to the appeal of steam, but just now in our scale unless you go for something like Minitrains or a Brian Madge kit there is a lot to be said for making a first effort something like the lovely diesel described in the current News with a suitably weighted Kato chassis.
That way you will get a good running loco to get something moving before trying something more ambitious
Peter Smith
PS I am assuming out of the box Roco, Liliput, Bemo etc European is not for you.
I agree with Peter here. There are other ways to get started.
As well as the NP kit that fits the Kato chassis, a super combination, very easy to build, there are other simple and quick kits for diesels on the Kato chassis or simple etched brass A1 kits for the Bachmann Plymouth if you can get one (becoming scarce but Member Sales may still have them).
Alternatively you can put a steam outline tram loco on the Kato chassis, either the Peco whitemetal kit or a 3D printed body, or there is the York Modelmaking "Ratty" vertical boiler tram kit that again goes on the Kato chassis.
Frank
Brian, again you are font of knowledge!
That said. I have no idea what I am going to do!
Sorry Brian, in my experience the noise in an N drive chassis is solely due to part lines on the worm, which you cannot see, caused by the molding process. Once these have worn off one way or another these chassis are very smooth and quiet. As far as I can see meshing of gears has little to do with the noise. I have never adjusted the mesh on mine and after some extensive running they quieten down of their own accord. I would very strongly suggest that purchasers DO NOT attempt to alter the gear mesh, they will not cure the noise and will probably only cause irreversible damage.
Rod
Scott, if you are not wedded to the idea of an 0-4-0 steam loco with the motion visible but are simply looking for a small loco then the Kato tram chassis is excellent. There is a good variety of kits to put on it as mentioned. The Bachmann Plymouth diesel switcher is another reliable chassis and again there are kits for it, but all diesels and no steam tram locos as far as I know.
Getting more adventurous and perhaps not for the beginner (if you are one) is the RT chassis conversion for the Bachmann/Farish class 08, giving an 0-6-0, not an 0-4-0, but with all the "clanky bits" showing.
http://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_013.htm (http://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_013.htm)
Quote from: rod335 on July 24, 2013, 20:00
Sorry Brian, in my experience the noise in an N drive chassis is solely due to part lines on the worm, which you cannot see, caused by the molding process. Once these have worn off one way or another these chassis are very smooth and quiet. As far as I can see meshing of gears has little to do with the noise. I have never adjusted the mesh on mine and after some extensive running they quieten down of their own accord. I would very strongly suggest that purchasers DO NOT attempt to alter the gear mesh, they will not cure the noise and will probably only cause irreversible damage.
Rod
That is interesting Rod.
It is not the gear mesh Rod, as you say that is correct and should not be changed I thought it was more about vibration rather than gear mesh.
In each case I have found that securing the front end of the motor stops the noise instantly.
But perhaps as you say as the chassis beds in the need for this is eliminated.
In your experience approximately how much use is needed for the chassis to quieten down Rod?
Or do you do something to the worm gear?
Brian Meldon
It is very difficult lapping gears made of any synthetic material, I think these are delron, and the material has a sort of 'give'. If you look at composite gear sets, it is always the metal gear which shows signs of wear. I think the synthetic gear just 'moves' instead of wearing. However, back to the N drive gears. Although some will view it as heresy, I have used T-cut or similar on these gears which seems to, eventually, quieten them down. I have had some 'uncleaned' gears from Neville and it was only after looking at these I realised how they are molded with longitudinal part-lines. Neville cleans them by running a spiral cutter down the teeth which obviously removes most of the flash but leaves very close lines in the teeth. It is these, I think, that cause the in initial noise. Once they are removed, the chassis is quiet. There do not appear to be any problems with either the wormwheels or the spur gears driving the wheels. The chassis, if you can get them, are well designed and engineered and vastly different from the 'built to a price' pieces of junk they replace.
Rod
I do wonder how long it would take, (if ever?) for the chassis to bed in on its own if you did not use the t-cut as a grinding paste and how the use of t-cut in this way would effect any warrantee?
As I said I have found that the noise stops instantly if the front of the motor is secured or held in place with the body, perhaps you or others have had similar or different experience of this happening, or it could just be me?
I do agree that the N-drive chassis are far better quality to the Bachman and Ibertren chassis, but I have always found the quality of the Fleischmann and Arnold chassis to be very good as well. (Apart from the first of the Arnold 0-6-0
I like the 08 conversion idea.. Plenty on ebay too!
And the Kato looks nice... Cheap too.
http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=K11-104&r=1
Quote from: rod335 on July 25, 2013, 12:07
It is very difficult lapping gears made of any synthetic material, I think these are delron, and the material has a sort of 'give'. If you look at composite gear sets, it is always the metal gear which shows signs of wear. I think the synthetic gear just 'moves' instead of wearing.
I am not sure I have fallen for a "myth" but I thought the harder one of a pair of materials wore the most due to abrasive particles embedding themselves in the softer material and grinding away at the harder one.
Graeme
I did say 'think', I very freely admit I do not understand this principle at all. Any genuine enlightenment anyone can shed on it will be most welcome.
Rod