Will I be able to fit a controller in here?
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backwoodsminiatures.com%2FXgaldhrd2.jpg&hash=1956f7ffefd161e3c4cb24f10d9d5cfa25b41d4f)
(Here's the page: http://www.backwoodsminiatures.com/009kits.htm (http://www.backwoodsminiatures.com/009kits.htm). It's the fifth one down.
By the way, their Garretts apparently have two motors. Can I wire one DCC controller to both, in parallel? Assuming of course I can squeeze even one in?
Noone has replied yet so here goes
certainly you should be able to fit a single decoder wired to both motors. Much depends on the current draw of the two motors and how much space is in the boiler and below it (or can be created). In theory you should do a stall current test on both motors but I have only ever burnt out one decoder in nearly 20 years of DCC
If the loco is free running without binds and the motors are modern can or open frame Mashima or similar I would have thought a 2 amp decoder would be ok. Most decoder suppliers on the internet give the dimensions of their decoders. The loco looks very well assembled and I would have expected the motors already to be wired together for pick up from both trucks (bogies). I know Backwoods but I am not familiar with them and someone who is might better advise
If the motors are as described above it should be easy to isolate the motor contacts and connect the decoder as per instructions. You might consider a decoder with "stay alive" or with a separate capacitor if you have room but if everything is working well with pick up on both trucks wired together (sorry I have got by for the same time as noted above without too much knowledge of series and parrallel, amps and ohms but there is lots of knowledge on this group which I might provoke) it is not essential
As the loco is all brass you must ensure the decoder itself is isolated from the body but do not breach decoder instructions and wrap it in isolation material, maybe I would make a styrene cradle in or below the boiler
Above all you should ensure the loco operates as flawlessly and freely as possible before doing anything
Peter Smith
Much more fun if you control each power truck individually. You can have one end slipping prototypically then! ;D
Is the loco built already? It would be much easier to fit DCC equipment during construction. As far as I am aware that kit uses two 9/16 Mashima motors and space inside the truck bodies is pretty restricted.
Rod
but Tigger, more likely one truck dragging or pushing the other which is not prototypical?
Peter Smith
Thank you all.
I realize I have mislead you on one thing: the loco is not only not built; it is not even purchased. The photo is from the Backwoods website.
I'm a bit worried that I have never assembled a brass loco before.
T
Tom
then you have an interesting and possibly expensive time ahead. I would not dream of such a loco as a first attempt or even a first times x (x being any number you want to think of)
Peter
erm! to quote Backwoods.
Our model features a central motor with universal joints driving all eight wheels and our usual wealth of detail. The kit depicts the loco as modified by the DHR.
richard
Have Backwoods done more than one Garrett? I must confess I completely fail to see the attraction of these brutes, they are not a very typical loco type.
I'm sure I've come across a Backwoods Garrett with a motor in each bogie.
Rod
Unless there is a loco type I dont recognize can we at least get Garratt right. A central motor will simplify DCC installation but its still one heck of a project for first time brass loco construction
and a good way to put an end to 009 layout aspirations. Start with something simple, get something running and go from there
Peter Smith
Sorry Peter, having just had a bollocking in the other place for spelling it wrong, I thought I'd got it right this time. Obviously not.
Rod
Quote from: petersmith1942 on July 09, 2013, 17:03
Tom
then you have an interesting and possibly expensive time ahead. I would not dream of such a loco as a first attempt or even a first times x (x being any number you want to think of)
Peter
Whilst my first etched brass loco* was not a Backwoods Garratt it was one of their kits - the 00n3 L&LSR 4-8-0 tender loco!
Yes, it was somewhat a baptism by fire, and yes, I did make a few mistakes (and had to buy a second chassis etch), but if you take your time, read the instructions several times (before building) then Pete McParlin's kits can be built, and can prove to be surprisingly easy. Also Pete is happy to give advice, as I am sure that a built kit running on a layout is a better advert for the kits than a pile of green boxes sat in a cupboard (or worse, on the 009 Sales stand!).
(*note, the 4-8-0 was my first etched loco kit - I had built other kits, mostly plastic & white metal that were stuck together along with some etched brass rolling stock kits).
Pete's kits can be graded, and the 'entry level' ones are probably the two diesels (Fowler and Hudswell) followed by the Barclay and Bagnall 0-4-0s. In addition I suspect that the DHR stock kits from Worsley Works might also form a useful way to start soldering and end up with finished items that can add to Tom's DHR plans. Whilst I have only seen the etches the Simplex-bulit railcar is essentially a box that sits on a Kato tram chassis so should be easy, with the modern diesel being a little more complex (i.e., several boxes sat on a kato or other suitable chassis).
Julien
fair comments, would only wish to stress my earlier remarks were not intended as criticism of Backwoods kits. I remain of the view however that kits such as the Garratt are not a good idea for first timers. There are, fortunately always exceptions but they are exceptions
Peter Smith
Backwoods do three Garrats even:
- the DHR as discussed here
- The Tasmanian 'K1' now on the WHR
- The ex-SAR Garrats also on WHR
I must admit I'm quite keen on the last two, to go with my Mh's on my mountain layout.....
I too would chip mine, as my layout is DCC. I have posted a query with Backwoods to check if this is possible. As backwoods are due to come to the convention I'm postponing my purchase until then.
I have built one loco up 'till now: a Smallbrook studios resin "Echo". Not 009/HOe I know! The idea of reading instructions multiple times came in very handy there! As it is I would still do it differently if I did it again....
Cheers,
Friso
Friso
I am just wondering how Pete McParlin will answer your question. If its a kit it depends how you build it even if you follow the instructions to the letter. Its unlikely that any kit will be designed not for DCC but ensuring that the motor or motors connections are isolated is your problem as is decoder wiring for pick-ups , lights etc
In building a complex kit such as this for DCC it is concerning that you need to ask the kit manufacturer. If you understand the fundamentals of DCC then you take them into account before you start the kit and at each stage of construction
I hope you are not offended by these comments but this thread has had naivety running all through it
and it can be very expensive
Peter Smith
Hi Peter,
No offence taken!
I didn't just ask about easy of DCC conversion, I had a number of other questions as well, such as minimum radius it can handle. Much more important!
Cheers,
Friso
Oh Dear. If you are seriously considering (building) one of these complicated and sophisticated models, together with the installation of DCC, surely the resultant model deserves more consideration than 'what is the minimum radius I can get it round?' You may well be able to get it to go round 12" radius curves, but it will look horrible if it does and surely deserves a more realistic setting.
Rod
Quote from: Allscales on August 08, 2013, 18:17
Hi Peter,
No offence taken!
I didn't just ask about easy of DCC conversion, I had a number of other questions as well, such as minimum radius it can handle. Much more important!
Cheers,
Friso
Ian Turner's NGG 16s will get around a 9" curve - but then he has modified them to do so and "Roestock" is a very realistic setting with the small radius determined (I think) by the Peco points that were available at the time Ian built the layout.
To some extent though I'd agree with Rod in that any 009 loco looks silly going around inappropriately tight curves even if it is capable of doing so. As an example I have a 2-8-0 Baldwin tender loco built from an American HOn3 kit (chassis modified to get it from 10.5 mm to 9 mm gauge) that I know will go around a sub-9" curve. She looks very silly when she does this though and on the layout I'll build for her and her planned siblings (a second 2-8-0 and a pair of 2-8-2 saddle tanks using the same chassis) I'll be aiming for a 12" minimum.
Julien
what you are doing in HOn30 sounds very interesting and I hope you might tell us more in due course
Someone in the HOn30 Mail Car yahoo group has done HOn3-HOn30 conversions using the Roundhouse kit as the basis. I have a kit but havent done a conversion yet because it will still be a mighty big loco and most of my HOn30 uses N scale chassis which produce small locos
A 2-8-2 tank conversion sounds really good and I might think about that myself
Sorry about the thread drift but any reference to US modelling in our scale grabs my attention
Peter Smith
Quote from: petersmith1942 on August 09, 2013, 12:17
Julien
what you are doing in HOn30 sounds very interesting and I hope you might tell us more in due course
Someone in the HOn30 Mail Car yahoo group has done HOn3-HOn30 conversions using the Roundhouse kit as the basis. I have a kit but havent done a conversion yet because it will still be a mighty big loco and most of my HOn30 uses N scale chassis which produce small locos
A 2-8-2 tank conversion sounds really good and I might think about that myself
Sorry about the thread drift but any reference to US modelling in our scale grabs my attention
Peter Smith
To momentarily continue the drift (sorry)
The model comes out at 4 mm scale (so is 009, not HOn30), especially after I rebuilt the cab to scale(!) and is based on some drawings that appeared of a 30" gauge loco supplied to Cuba in NG&SLG. "Victoria" is a big lass, but with lowering the boiler as far as it would go (cut out most of the smoke box saddle and the inside of the boiler to clear the motor, also rotated by 90 degrees to get the boiler down) helped create a powerful looking loco rather than something standing on tip toes (as the unmodified Roundhouse loco tends to be).
The 2-8-0s are the later kits with the plastic side frames which make milling the chassis block down easier. The 2-8-2ST will be made from the Moose Jaw 3-in-1 kits which use the older style 2-8-0 chassis block with the frames cast on. I'm not sure whether to cut the frames off and re-attach them later to make the milling easier, or try to do that with the frames in place, but I have the motorising set (essentially the gear upgrade for the 2-8-0) from NWSL.