I thought it best to start a new thread for feedback on the 009 News following some discussion about content in Brian's Egger History thread (http://www.009society.com/forum/index.php?topic=1081.0).
If anyone has feedback or suggestions on how to improve the News please let us know.
Ultimately we can only publish the content we're provided, and we were pretty short of articles after the handover due to a technical issue.
We're still learning what people want from the News, and we've had contradictory videos on prototype content, but so far those who have gotten in touch with us have been in favour of it. I'd like to be in position where we have the ability to publish prototype content that's relevant to a model in the same issue - we need to line up the content and get two articles in at the same time to make this idea work, we're having a go in the next issue with a shay construction article and some prototype photos. Another example of what I've been considering is an article on building a Kelani Valley Railway 4-6-4T, accompanied by some prototype photos from members who I know have visited Sri Lanka when they were in operation, to provide inspiration for those who are interested by the modelling article.
We've got some more ideas for future content such as articles on what's available to help model a specific line, accompanied by a trackplan and some snippits of information that may help members develop layout ideas.
We've discussed potentially including more articles offering hints and tips on various modelling techniques applicable to our branch of the hobby.
Another idea Steve and I have discussed is running a series of articles on the content of the Heritage Collection if people are agreeable, and perhaps even re-running one old article per month from previous issues from decades ago, long before many of the current membership would have received the News.
If any of you have any thoughts on what you would/wouldn't like to see, or things we should/shouldn't change please let us know.
Tom Dauben - 009 News Content Editor
Tom
I must set the record straight. I wrote to you and stated quite emphatically that I did NOT want to see prototype articles on the 009 News. I can get that in many places elsewhere if I want to. So there was at least one person who did not support the idea.
I was not suggesting in any way that you were sniping at me! In the post I put on this forum elsewhere I suggested that someone else who is of like mind to me should write to you saying so, so I would not be the only being sniped at BY OTHER MEMBERS (who may favour the idea). At least that is what I intended. At no time did I intend you to think that comment was aimed at you. It was not.
I can countenance the idea of prototype photographs in support of a modelling article, but for NO other purpose.
Rod
Another point, of the four people who have posted opinions on this topic, three were strongly against the idea, only one in favour. So that would tend to negate the correspondence you report in favour of the idea.
Rod
Tom
I started this and I hope you have read my comments carefully.When you say "you find it interesting" usually means you find it irritating. When you say only 2 people have taken the trouble etc, you should again read my comments. I am entirely happy to see how it goes and you need time to try out ideas and excercise your editorial role. My original comments were related to Brians series which I like.
Even if off thread I take all comments/contributions to this forum to be part of the normal feedback in our Society and I would be really disappointed if you and your joint editor did not keep aware of its contents. I am a member of another modelling Society where their magazine and Forum seem to be on different planets; one the official mouthpiece where all is sweetness and light, the other a hotbed of discord
I enjoy the News, look forward to it and prefer modelling articles as I read most of the UK railway press. Picking up a previous comment on the other thread personally I would love to see a Minitrains bash in every issue but I wouldnt dream of saying so or expecting others to agree
When a new member I thought Branchlines was a waste of space but have gradually changed and now read it all even the repeated thanks for the cakes, sandwiches, gourmet cuisine enjoyed by some.
Just carry on, try new things, keep us interested, educated in our part of the hobby and informed on developments in it and in our Society. I am genuinely grateful you have taken on the joint role and look forward to reading many more 009 News. I am only sorry I feel too old to try it myself
Peter Smith
I've just reread tat2drod's post which has left me feeling confused. He appears to be advocating more prototype news in our magazine, because that's the only way he can get it without paying for it. Without this shift in emphasis, he appears to be suggesting that someone else should pay for prototype news for him. Why? I have to pay subscriptions to the societies I belong to. Having had NGIRM from issue 1 I've just cancelled my subscription as, one, it's getting very expensive and two, I dislike the recent changes in style. I don't want our News to go the same way.
Rod
Quote from: rod335 on June 30, 2013, 09:02
I've just reread tat2drod's post which has left me feeling confused. He appears to be advocating more prototype news in our magazine, because that's the only way he can get it without paying for it. Without this shift in emphasis, he appears to be suggesting that someone else should pay for prototype news for him. Why? I have to pay subscriptions to the societies I belong to. Having had NGIRM from issue 1 I've just cancelled my subscription as, one, it's getting very expensive and two, I dislike the recent changes in style. I don't want our News to go the same way.
Rod
I didn't advocate anything and I find your interpretation of this to be a money issue distasteful. If you think I'm trying to get this stuff for free in the magazine then you really are confused. I made a point about the choices that are available and the consequences. I would suggest you re-read what was posted with the thought in mind that it's written from a different perspective than yours and from someone who's in a different situation than you are (I'm a relative newbie to NG). The line you should have focussed on in that post was the one about me not knowing what I don't know.
Whilst I may not have shouted for this change, I am not against it, unlike you, who is. Not everyone will agree with me; not everyone will agree with you. As I have said, there are other things in the mag that I don't like and things that are covered by my subscriptions elsewhere. Should I scream and shout about them? No, obviously not. I don't moan about them because I realise that there are other people out there who may like them and I realise that there has to be room for everyone.
Having done the job that the editors are now doing and having had to write large portions of newsletters myself, I would suggest that the best solution to your dislike of these sort of articles is to write more modelling articles yourself.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
Quote from: invercloy on June 29, 2013, 22:34
I thought it best to start a new thread for feedback on the 009 News following some discussion about content ...
If any of you have any thoughts on what you would/wouldn't like to see, or things we should/shouldn't change please let us know.
Tom Dauben - 009 News Content Editor
Pretty much a thumbs up from me on the variety in each issue, but I can understand the point of those not wanting too many articles on the prototype (except where it backs up a modelling article).
Maybe more items like Chris Ford's Resolution Skylark article.
Please don't include a Minitrains bash article every issue - every second issue would be ok though. ;)
A series of articles on the contents of the Heritage Collection & older articles sounds like a great idea.
I contacted Tom recently suggesting/requesting an article - he replied that it was already in the works ! Superb. I look forward to it. I firmly believe that the two new editors are more than up to the job - thankyou to you both and to the rest of the team for such a fine mag.
I'm truly sorry I provoked your reply. It was not my intention to attack you personally, and, indeed, it is not my intention to carry on a tit-for-tat argument on the forum. However, having reread your post, I cannot see how my interpretation of what you said is incorrect.
As for writing articles for the News myself, I fear that the articles I would produce would not appeal to the majority of the membership. I do, indeed, applaud anyone who will take on a post such as editing, voluntarily, a magazine of any sort, it is not something I would wish to do, or indeed be capable of doing. However, that does not preclude me from having, and expressing, an opinion.
Rod
Firstly, Rod and Peter, apologies if I have misconstrued the intent of your posts. I will edit my opening post shortly to reflect this.
I've been meaning to start a thread on here for a while about the News, I appreciate that the membership of this forum only represents a small proportion of the overall membership, and we should be mindful of this, but it would be a useful source of feedback.
We both appreciate that we can't please everyone, and there are things that we should/shouldn't alter to avoid upsetting the membership.
Perhaps we should move on from discussing prototype content, but let me say this first, we don't intend to publish articles based on 'my holiday to such and such' on their own, but ideally make use of them when they can be accompanied with a suitable modelling related article. The day may come when we don't have enough content to fill a gap in the News and we need to use one as a space filler, but I'm sure people could appreciate this situation if/when it arises. In the mean time I'm trying to recruit some more modelling related content from various members on things I think others would find interesting/useful/inspiring.
So, to move on, are there any thoughts on the other proposals we've made for the future, i.e.
- featuring more of the heritage collection - perhaps an article per loco, or per collection?
- re-running interesting/useful/inspiring old articles from years ago - one per month? Perhaps the longer standing members could nominate the content for this?
- modelling 'how to' articles on specific lines with trackplans, lists of kits etc. to inspire people to build layouts
P.S. Len - the article you suggested will be in the August issue, which we're just putting the finishing touches to now.
Quote from: rod335 on June 30, 2013, 10:31
As for writing articles for the News myself, I fear that the articles I would produce would not appeal to the majority of the membership.
I think you'd be surprised, Rod, from what I've heard people want more modelling content, and I can remember when I first joined the Society that the content I found most interesting was the content that showed HOW to do something. Perhaps an article on maintenance of the heritage collection or similar?
If anyone has any thoughts on a 'how to' type article they could contribute please let me know.
Rod,
Two things... I've no problem with people having opinions. Mine happens to be different from yours but that's the way it is. As long as we can recognize that, no prob.
Secondly, what Tom said :-)
Tom,
I like the idea of something on the heritage collection on a semi-regular basis. Apart from this, something out of left field every so often on a line that gets little attention would be neat, the problem being to find someone who knows something about one.
Tom,
I think widening the range of articles is a good idea.
I would vote for something on the heritage collection, I see this at exhibitions and I'm ashamed to say have no idea what most of the models are or why they are "heritage" so I would welcome this.
I also think that something more informative to be shown next to the models at exhibitions would be very interesting to a wider audience, and maybe if someone writes up some articles then these could form the basis of this as well.
Also, how to do it / hints and tips will always be very welcome. Not everyone is an expert and for example the recent articles on how to put together particular kits has been very useful both in showing how and in giving people the confidence to have a go.
Frank
So far so good Tom
I see no objection to small prototype articles ,I accept what Rod has said about obtaining the information elsewhere,but that presuppose that you know about the prototype in the first place.Often people may be on a trip/holiday and not realise there is a NG railway a few miles/kilometers away.
hints and tips are always useful.
Builing a loco is more problematical to try and compress this to 2 pages say,same with layouts if photos are included.Perhaps over more than one issue and bi-monthly so as to not swamp issues.
I personally do not like reading about food consumed or personal foibles of people i do not know.I appreciate that if branchlines are to be compressed to essentials this would have to be replaced with articles-the same old problem!
As recent 'returnee' to modelling after 40 years I really enjoy the articles on construction techniques.
Prototype news is good but in my opinion there should not be a disproportionate amount of articles on preserved lines. Articles on lines long gone provide me wiith 'fuel for thought' and articles on how to maintain and repair obsolete (and especially pre-internet) mechanisms are a god-send for one on a limited budget.
The Egger loco articles were of great interest and I would love to see a practical article on how to service and regauge Bemo locos. It took me ages to find out even how to take the body off of a Bemo loco!
Not all of the members are expert in modelling and we should include articles of interest to the less experienced.
As a corollary to Tom's statement that only what is submitted for publication can appear on the page I'd like to add that we are a society and the contents of our magazine should reflect our members interests, which may include prototype information, including photos.
Given copyright issues, I expect most photos are taken by members so if a member visited somewhere of interest then it would be good to hear about it. With the ready availability of pf photo hosting sites an article might give a "taster" with as many photos that the editor feels is appropriate with others available on-line.
Indeed in a way this is what happens with some of our Roving Reporter reports.
Similarly, as a Society it is important to hear that we have active groups even though I am not an avid fan of Branchlines and think that sometimes the pieces could be a bit shorter. I might feel completely differently if there were an active group in my area and it encouraged more members to take part.
I like the balance of material - the "how tos", the research, the speculation, the discussion of operations, the reviews, the historical stuff and so on.
If there is one thing I would like to see a bit more of it is track plans. It is interesting to see what people have achieved, to read about the development and to see the photos but I think seeing how it fits together would help put it into context, especially as many 009 layouts are "compact". This includes fiddle yards and the like as I think it is informative to hear how layouts are operated.
To answer Tom's initial questions..
Heritage
As with many things many of the comments above and in the Eggerbahn thread only go to show that you can't please 100% of the Society's members 100% of the time! :D
To pick up on Tom's post some items on the heritage collection would be welcome, especially being one of the members who was not yet born when a lot of these items first appeared in the model railway press, but also because I.m sure that not many members know what is in it, or even that we have such a collection!
As for Reprinting old material that's something I'm less convinced about - that's possibly because I have a full set of 009 News but what constitutes something worthy of reprinting?
How to articles are always useful - even if you have been in the game a long time there may be a new way of doing something out there that is worth a go, and may even be a better way of doing it you never thought about!
Prototype info is also welcome, but I do miss the scale drawings (I can't be sure but I have a feeling that the last one was published 5+ years ago). Specifically the Ffestiniog photo article didn't float my boat but then that's because I don't have much interest in the fessie! But then an article on a specific loco / bit of stock / whole line with some photos to show the detail and a scale drawing or three will always be of interest.
A few thoughts from an old hack!
It's funny how people demand articles on such and such, but can't bring themselves to write one themselves. In mitigation, it is very difficult to sit down and write any article. Often the editor does have to pester for content.
(Aside - Yes, Tom, I'm working on them....)
Give the chaps a bit of a break, they are only into - is it their second or third issue?
A note on layout - I always wanted to do something with the photos - make them bigger if possible, but never got round to doing anything I found satisfactory in MS Publisher - and with the limitations of the printing. However, things have moved on; can you try taking photos to the edges of the paper (a la RM etc?) - moving photos to 2/3 page-width? The quality of the photos is such that they will take being enlarged that much, I'm sure.
Personally I am less interested in prototype articles unless they include drawings of locos and rolling stock and track plans. (I joined the NGRS many years ago primarily for prototype info.) I prefer the 009 News to focus on the trials and tribulations (and joys!) of modelling narrow gauge in the smaller scales. But Tom, good luck to you and Steve in your new joint editorship, I'm sure you won't go too far wrong!
Mal.
Thanks for all the feedback, it is much appreciated.
I'll pick up on a few specific points:
I'm pleased the heritage collection idea seems well received. I'll give it some more thought as to exactly what can be done with this for the future.
Alan has mentioned spreading articles across more than one issue - we've already done this with Tim Sanderson's Alf article, and I think it's a good way to go to get the right level of detail without one article consuming much of any single issue. If articles submitted warrant this it's something we may do more of.
Trackplans - an interesting idea, I've got an agreement in place with someone who is very good at drawing trackplans for a series of articles i have planned, but I feel it's unfair to put upon them to draw trackplans for every layout article to give a consistent appearance to them. Having said that, if
layout owners/builders are prepared to submit them I think it's an excellent idea.
We'll try and include more 'how to' articles - in fact the editorial we've just finished has sent out a plea for these.
Drawings - this was one area I was wondering about making use of old material, I don't recall seeing any in the News for many years. There are other sources of drawings other than what the Society has published previously, I'll see what's possible.
Hugh - thanks for the update :)
Photo sizes - one thing we'd like to do is make better use of larger images, point taken about taking them right up to the border, we'll see what fits in with some other slight design changes we've been thinking about for the start of the next volume.
Thanks again.
As a regular contributor to 009 News over the years I have to agree that writing an article for 009 News is not easy. It takes me a lot longer to do one of the Egger articles for 009 News than it does to do a similar thing on a forum for example.
This is partly because the stuff on the forums can be edited later or added to to correct any errors, but for me it is more about the difficulty getting the bare bones of the article into a concise and coherent form that is suitable for publication with the appropriate photos included as necessary.
I find the problem with
Brian may be right that a detailed list of the Heritage collection might be difficult to generate, but perhaps an article on a few chosen items, with photographs, might not be too difficult if you started with ones for which there is good information already known.
In other words, start with the easy ones first.
Frank
Quote from: B.Meldon on July 01, 2013, 11:19
..................................Anyway what would I like to see in 009 News; well the no1 item I would like to see in the News is a series of articles detailing the items in the society heritage collection with photos, and when it is known, the history and construction details of each item.
I know that I am not alone in this, quite a lot of other members would like to see this as well.
Even a basic list of what is in the collection and its status, that is if it is owned by the society or on long term loan from its owner and its condition, would be a good start.
But for various reasons unfortunately I do not think that is going to happen any time soon.
Brian Meldon
I
Mick all very reasonable except that last sentence seems a bit business speak to me. How can queries about the collection need policy directives from the Committee. And why is what a lot of us want unlikely to happen (not your comment, Brians). What exactly is the problem, resources, the info itself or is there something a bit "precious" about the collection?
Peter Smith
Peter
There is, as far as I am concerned, nothing 'precious' in the sense that I think you intended about the collection. Questions have been raised 'in the other place' about whether or not ANY work at all should be carried out on the collection. I had felt that, within reason, the items in the collection should be made presentable and made to work wherever possible. Some people do not agree with this concept so I have referred the matter to our Committee for a decision.
As regards the 'don't hold your breath' aspect, the subject of articles, details etc has been raised many times in the past and has always petered out. Nothing sinister, just died from, presumed, lack of impetus. Things might change now.
Rod
Rod, I have an idea which I'll send you an email about.
Mick, if you've ideas feel free to let us know, we're not going to hand the towel in after a few issues as we've not achieved what we want to yet. As long as it's constructive it's fine by me.
Having just returned from exhibiting the 'G&WR Rly' at the Perth show, Scotland not Western Australia, and catching up on this thread I don't mind having some 12in to the foot articles in the News. So long as they portray some of the more obscure industrial railways and not the well known tourist lines. The tourist lines are well covered elsewhere and by accessing their Facebook pages for the latest news of your favourite preservation railway. With many small industrial type 009 diesel locos becoming available in kit form, or even the new Minitrains steam and ic locos, an inspirational article by someone would I believe be accepted by members when reading the NEWS.
Roger
Rod
thanks for that and understand the points you make; its just that I hoped I had given up business speak when I retired; anyway now youve put all my ducks in a row. No criticism of you either Mick and keep the photos coming!
Enjoying the contbns. on this thread
Peter Smith
Thanks for the prompt answer to my post Mick.
Also thanks to Rod for explaining the situation about working on items in the collection.
I can see both sides of this argument reguarding the restoration and repair of items in the collection and I think it is indeed wise for you to seek clarity from the committee on this matter. I do hope an answer will be forthcoming sooner rather than later.
Brian Meldon
Quote from: cornelius on July 02, 2013, 20:39
Here's a slightly left-field thought, but provoked by the discussion in this thread and elsewhere.
Should posts on this forum be considered as submissions to the 009 News?
In other words, feedback given on an issue on this forum is as valid as an email or letter to the editor and could be considered for publication.
Similarly original modelling content placed here by a member could be thought of as material for the editorial team to use. Although in this case it would probably make sense to edit it into a continuous article rather than reprint posts verbatim, and for ongoing illustrations of projects in-build picking the right time to do so.
Thoughts?
Posts on the forum - I wouldn't automatically consider for publication. Threads on a forum tend to be more like 'electronic conversations' than letters to the editor, there is a risk taking one post out its thread may lose the context of the original meaning.
Using modelling content from here in the magazine I think is a much better idea, most of the workbench threads are built up over days or weeks, rather than someone having sit down and decide to write an article from scratch. The only proviso I would suggest is asking the original author's permission before you publish it, out of courtesy.
Paul
Good idea by Steve, good valid points made in Paul's comments.
As this forum is only open to Society members, then I think there definitely is mileage in this suggestion. However, as Paul has indicated, caution is advised.
I don't think it can be taken that a posting made here is automatically classed as "fair game" as a submission for the News any more than an email to one of the Editors or indeed anyone else on the Committee can be classed in the context of "an official communication to the Society, therefore fair game to publish it in the News" if you follow my drift.
However, points made by members on here may be just the right material for what the editorial team want to put in a specific issue of the News, so in that sort of context then I think, just as Paul suggested, a request to the poster to use the material would be perfectly acceptable. Same goes for "workbench" and layout topics posted on this forum. I think Brian Meldon may strongly support the view that what is posted on a forum is not necessarily exactly what would be suited to being published word for word. He has already done a comprehensive Egger stock history on NGRM-Online but has found it necessary to completely re-write his instalments to make them suitable for publishing on hard copy in 009 News, so some careful consideration needs to be given in this area.
As possibly the most prolific contributor of material to the News in recent years, I have in the past often been asked by successive previous editors for permission to use specific photos from my online sets (currently in Picasaweb) to supplement or support material that the editor/s want to publish. I have always of course willingly given permission but if I discovered that material I had posted on this forum for example had simply been
I don't think that current and past members would have expected that their posts would be published in the News and I don't think you should retrospectively decide they were submitted with that in mind. If you want to change this going forwards then it should be announced, but I think it will change the nature of the posts quite a lot.
However I think that there are some excellent threads in this forum that would make the basis for excellent articles for the News and indeed some of the longer ones would be suitable for publication in a revised Handbook or similar publication.
However the permission of the authors should be sought and there would probably be some need for editing.
Frank
I don't think I have any problem with this suggestion except for two provisos. Firstly, the decision to publish must not be retrospective and secondly, most of the posts on this, and other fora, are by definition, comments on an ongoing topic and as such are rarely self-supporting, so could/should not be used out of context.
Rod
Morning all.
I don't think there is much fear of any of my posts being put in the news as I waffle too much, but I do think that if the editors thought that a series of posts by members, was worth reprinting in the magazine, that a request from the editors to the poster would be in order to get permission.
Regards,
BrianT.
Regarding including posts from the 009 Society Forum (or the other place) in the journal I guess it all depends on what has been written.
Having a regular feature that repeats or summarizes what is written online for the sake of it is not worth the bother. Occasionally information that might appeal to a wider audience may appear, i.e. treating online content as a news feed.
For example there was a discussion online about a proposed 009 Fremo-based modular system. Irrespective as to whether the any of the actual postings were of interest, the information that some modellers were thinking about 009 modules might be "newsworthy".
What I would like to see is 009 SOCIETY MEMBERS posting on this forum before the any other fora. Too often some members, and many non members, seek instant gratification on the other forums and ignore the fact that they have contributed something that could either be included on here first or printed in the NEWS. I have always preferred to send our editors an article for printing in the NEWS and on many occasions at exhibitions have received encouraging comments and thanks. Only a few members like Ted P are willing to share their modelling experiences either in the NEWS or on the forums. His current work on his L&M loco is worthy of inclusion in both printed and electronic media. Such work that Ted and others have presented us in the NEWS I eventually cut out the pages to become part of my 009 reference material and encyclopaedia. Some of which I take with me to an exhibition as invariably someone will ask 'how to', e g, "how can I replace an Ibertren chassis?" I show them Ian Turner's article on how to re-motor a defunct Ibertren chassis with a Mashima along with one of my own examples. Very few members think about changing the motor for one that is far better as the basic chassis is fine for most of us. Maybe that is one article the editors could resurrect from earlier newsletters. Some things need going over again as time goes by what with new members joining having missed such instructional articles from years past.
Roger
Quote from: Frank on July 03, 2013, 08:31
I don't think that current and past members would have expected that their posts would be published in the News and I don't think you should retrospectively decide they were submitted with that in mind. If you want to change this going forwards then it should be announced, but I think it will change the nature of the posts quite a lot.
I agree with this. My forum entries here are a lot more informal than anything I would put in a letter to Ye Ed and wouldn't expect them to go into the News.
On the other hand...
I have no problem if this situation changes in the future but, having done fora for 25+ years in work, I can guarantee you that the nature of some posts will change as people (or at least me) take into account the change in audience.
Quote from: Krizzy on July 03, 2013, 14:12
Very few members think about changing the motor for one that is far better as the basic chassis is fine for most of us. Maybe that is one article the editors could resurrect from earlier newsletters. Some things need going over again as time goes by what with new members joining having missed such instructional articles from years past.
Roger
Thanks Roger, good suggestion, I'll add it to our list of ideas.
As I mentioned before the material I post on the forums, here and on NGRM-on-line is not in a condition that I would wish to be seen in 009 News.
I suppose the basic content is all there, but not the overall composition. As I said it takes me a lot longer to do an article for the news than it does to post something on a forum.
One thing I have seen done in a non railway situation (church bellringing) is a short regular column entitled
Some very interesting comments and responses and certainly some good ideas. I find it odd to think that I would write differently for the forum than for the News but I do agree that context is all and selective extracts from threads may be very misleading.
With regard to Krizzys comments our hobby ( not this Society) has always had its share of freeloaders and always will. Some publicly boast about it and getting something for nothing is part of their hobby (and maybe their life). I find the anonymity of forum names quite irritating especially as in many cases the true identity is shown or easily found but I just accept it just as I accept but dont like the status of membership. Lets hope I never become a hero member of anything!
It seems that the editors are finding this thread to be helpful and that can only be good
I too find the writings of people like Ted Polet inspiring and taking the trouble to photograph and record progress is equally so. So often I am so keen-or desperate- to finish the job in hand I am left wishing I had done it when it is often too late. The demo of Bemo gauge conversion was equally good and left me wondering why I had dismissed the idea for so long
If only I really was a newbie instead of the oldby I really am
Peter Smith
To answer a few feelings expressed in this thread: I have made a point of copying my threads on NGRM and on this forum, which I didn't do for nothing.
If two-thirds of the members don't participate on this forum that is a good reason to publish some of the material in the 009 News. Another is that I like to read the News over coffee without having to hold an electronic device. There must be many others who feel alike.
I have re-written a few forum threads and sent them to Tom to publish in the News. I'm not saying which ones! A forum thread needs to be re-written and condensed for the News as this is a different medium. Also, it enables you to carefully re-phrase some posts that weren't particularly good.
Finally, I like the 'how to' illustrated topics such as the Bemo re-gauging tale, and the Glen Ogle thread. I do similar topics myself for a very good reason, which is to share experience and knowledge, and help get others going. I wish there were more of them! ;)
Without wishing to display any support on one side or t'other, I do remember that when I was in the Society's 'driving seat' it was always the case that the News was primarily for modelling and modelling articles and, as has been mentioned above, there are plenty enough purely prototype articles in other magazines. (Prototype info that supported a modelling article was exempt!) Even a 'protptype corner' of one page was a little bit questionable.
That said folks, the 009 News is not only one of the finest society magazines currently being published, it is also one of the most demanding; unlike, say, a quartely where the Editior can have a month collecting, a month collating and a month off, there is absolutely no let-up with the News. As has been said, any Editor can only publish what he is sent - so we can all get building and get writing!
So if someone went on holiday and visited a few lines took some photos they would not be welcome for the News? that's the impression I'm getting... It's worth bearing in mind that not everyone has access to, or wants to use, the 'net and as Alan says it can be a useful way of people finding out about lines they may not otherwise of heard of...
I'll hold my photos of two cog railways, a couple of 760mm lines and a metre gauge line then... As they are both Prototype and NOT 009... Double whammy!
of course they would if something new and which adds to modelling possibilities, has views of locos from more than threequarter front and avoids pics with tantalising gems in the background to which no reference is made and references to how great, or bad the nearest eating place was
Its what editorship is all about. Nothing is ruled in or out as you suggest but is it relevant to our aims
Peter Smith
Prior to going away for a week to Skye I commented that I too thought too much was made of the FR 150. I think one page would have been OK to mark what was of course a most historic anniversary. I'll also have to admit I'm no great fan of the FR or for that matter Corsican Railways but I did enjoy the Corsican article!
Tom keep experimenting as it is all too easy to get stuck in a rut and the whole thing could then go stale but do not lose sight of what does work. 009 News is one magazine I do look forward to receiving each month and indeed now is the only modelling magazine I take so please do not squeeze out the modelling articles as they are the lifeblood of my 009 modelling.
One thing though. I appreciate the need for the reports from the groups around the country but could something be done to shorten them. Sharpen up that blue pencil and replace one page of Branchlines with one page of anything else relevant to narrow gauge modelling. There now I've found space for Blair's holiday snaps! Dare you to publish one I took last week at Isle Ornsay!!!
Malcolm
Ok, but that was not the impression I was getting from earlier posts... Personally I'd much rather have a few more pages of modelable prototype NG than so many pages of Branchlines which don't, in my view, contribute much to modelling for the amount of space they take up. I seem to remember some years back a previous editor trying to put a limit on the number of words in the reports, perhaps it's about time that was brought back...
(PS I'll send in the photos!)
Branchlines reports have always been a problem in 009 News. What will be of little interest to some will be of great interest to others, especially those that are mentioned in the reports!
I have changed the way I send in Branchlines reports to a brief list of the future meeting dates (when I remember!) and a quarterly review with photos of the various layouts at the meetings. Obviously it is up to the editors if they include the photos or not but personally I find this a more interesting way to show what the group has been up to rather than a worded description.
Brian Meldon
I like your ideas Brian!
Branchlines is absolutely "core business" but several similarly worded reports do not make for the most interesting reading. What you suggest gets the essential information across (next meeting dates etc) and gives greater insight into what groups are doing. It may need cooperation and coordination to stagger lengthier (with photos) reports, or the acceptance that some issues might contain more "club news".
In Branchlines there are reports of models being made (or shown for the first time) and meetings centred on members layouts. If the owners did not feel the urge to write specific articles on them, then a photo and a short write-up by the local scribe would let others see models that they might otherwise not.
The whole Branchlines topic is thorny. Whilst the vast amount of content is possibly boring and does not really connect with those who were not present at the meetings, I do, nevertheless, think that it should continue, pretty much in its present form as by doing so it emphasises that we ARE a society comprised of real people, not just names on paper.
It is, of course, always good to meet other members in person but often this is not possible and Branchlines goes a long way making other members human.
Rod
Rod
and pretty well fed by most accounts. I like Brians suggestion, lets see a few pics of the locos and stock described and the layouts under construction. I do agree that the groups are an important feature of our Society and that help of any sort provided is recognized
Peter Smith
Firstly, thanks for the continued postings here, although we've not replied for a bit we're still reading.
Quote from: Malcolm on July 08, 2013, 20:42
Tom keep experimenting as it is all too easy to get stuck in a rut and the whole thing could then go stale but do not lose sight of what does work. 009 News is one magazine I do look forward to receiving each month and indeed now is the only modelling magazine I take so please do not squeeze out the modelling articles as they are the lifeblood of my 009 modelling.
Thanks Malcolm. Let me confirm - we have no intention of squeezing out modelling content in the News, but what i've mentioned several times is that we're looking to incorporate prototype content where it can be made to work WITH modelling content in the same issue. Hopefully it'll work, if we get more negative feedback than positive about it long term then we'll re-evaluate.
Quote from: B.Meldon on July 09, 2013, 11:39
Branchlines reports have always been a problem in 009 News. What will be of little interest to some will be of great interest to others, especially those that are mentioned in the reports!
I have changed the way I send in Branchlines reports to a brief list of the future meeting dates (when I remember!) and a quarterly review with photos of the various layouts at the meetings. Obviously it is up to the editors if they include the photos or not but personally I find this a more interesting way to show what the group has been up to rather than a worded description.
Brian Meldon
Quote from: GraemeD on July 09, 2013, 13:42
In Branchlines there are reports of models being made (or shown for the first time) and meetings centred on members layouts. If the owners did not feel the urge to write specific articles on them, then a photo and a short write-up by the local scribe would let others see models that they might otherwise not.
Thanks for the thoughts on Branchlines, we're aware that this is a thorny subject and whatever we do won't please everyone (this sounds familiar...). We're hoping to modernise the design of some elements of the News at the start of the next issue, nothing too radical. One thing I'd like to do to make Branchlines more manageable in the future is set a regular maximum amount of space it occupies in an issue, this may mean we cap the reports at a certain length, we'll have to see how the new design works out in this respect.
It's nice to see photos in Branchlines, but I think we'd need to offset this against less text to ensure it doesn't take up any greater proportion of an issue. I have to admit that I do rather like the suggestion of staggered reports with photos and less text/longer reports and no photos. Will give this some more thought.
What is encouraging is that after some badgering of some members at exhibitions and by email we're now getting some really interesting articles coming in for future issues.
P.S. Blair, photos would be good when you're ready, thanks :)
I've just had a look at the membership of this forum - which of course any member can do.
There 414 members (actually a pretty good proportion of the Society membership, I would say)
But
only 20 have posted more than 20 times
and
226 have not posted at all
We may not be a representative cross-section of the Membership...
Tom & Steve
The Branchlines have always appeared in the NEWS since the very first years of the Society. They keep members informed of what is going on in their locality as well as further afield. Very few members actually do attend group meetings but reports in the NEWS may alert them to realise there is more going on and that attending a group may actually help them with their 009 modelling. One problem though has always been the Branchlines that ramble on and on and that means the editors must use their editorial prerogative to remove non essential items that mean nothing to the majority of members. In the past we have had comments and complaints regarding the inclusion garden railway happenings as well as other larger scales such as 7mm/O16.5. So keep the Branchlines in the NEWS but edit out the dross we have had to read in the past.
Roger
Quote from: hughn on July 11, 2013, 10:34
I've just had a look at the membership of this forum - which of course any member can do.
There 414 members (actually a pretty good proportion of the Society membership, I would say)
But
only 20 have posted more than 20 times
and
226 have not posted at all
We may not be a representative cross-section of the Membership...
Shades of Unite Union and the Falkirk Labour Party then...........
Malcolm
I thought that choice was part of democracy. I would not expect the group to be representative of the whole Society for a range of reasons. That is why I was keen that it was seen as PART of the normal feedback in the Society and no more or less so than membership itself, readership of News attendance at group meeting and meets and attendance or voting at AGMs or other formal meetings. What I would wish to avoid at all costs is any impression that one form of feedback, especially this group, is more relevant than others. I remain of the view that it is important that the editors of News as far as possible keep abreast of all types of feedback
I am a member of another organisation in the hobby where the disconnect between the online and other forms of interraction has been disastrous (in my view)
In that organization I was a member but not a participant in group discussion untill I was told that my identity had been used by someone else to cause trouble. It was a very distressing experience and is why I always use my proper name and "sign" every posting I make
Peter Smith
Don't worry, we're aware that this may not necessarily be a representative group of the society due to its size, in fact I mentioned just that on page 1. But, it is another form of feedback that we can make use of. We won't just act on suggestions here to the detriment of other forms of communication.
Roger, re Branchlines, I'd like to be in a position where we have to reduce the amount of editing, hopefully the length limit may start the work towards this, we'll see (I may be being optimistic)...
Quote from: invercloy on July 11, 2013, 18:38
Don't worry, we're aware that this may not necessarily be a representative group of the society due to its size, in fact I mentioned just that on page 1. But, it is another form of feedback that we can make use of.
You'll probably get more and varied feedback on here in one week than by any other method I suspect, Tom...
(Still to put the photos on the computer btw!)
At the time of my posting i had not received my copy of the news.Having now received this I agree wholeheartedly with Rod regarding the festiniog but stick by my comments regarding lesser known railways (Corsica) which people may not be aware of ,and could well visit if they had known about them.Having said that it should not take over modelling articles.
I do not need to know who attended a branch meeting or what they ate and most certainly not "apologies for absence" for goodness sake!
As mentioned in previous issues of the News, Volume 41 starts with the October issue. This is the first issue where Steve and I have applied the refreshed design.
Copies should be with members before the Convention - we'll be interested to know what you think.
Quote from: invercloy on September 06, 2013, 19:11
As mentioned in previous issues of the News, Volume 21 starts with the October issue. This is the first issue where Steve and I have applied the refreshed design.
Copies should be with members before the Convention - we'll be interested to know what you think.
Sorry I am confused. My 009 latest News is "Volume 40 Number 12) September 2013.????
Typo, I mean volume 41.
Tom and Steve
Received my copy of the latest NEWS this morning. Very well done and refreshing, nice to have larger photographs in two columns instead of three. Mark did a good job compiling the News over his tenure but time stipulated refreshing the format. Again well done.
Roger
Mine just came in and it really does make a difference. I also like the Branchlines page at the back. Well done!
My copy arrived yesterday. It looks great.
BTW the current Mrs N doesn't know about Ashby-de-la-Zouch, so I'd thank you all for keeping quiet! ;D
agree with posts to date, always enjoyed News via Mark but evolutionary change is part of life and from my initial whiz through-cant resist that- I like it. I will still read Branchlines from end to end
Peter Smith
One more suggestion. On the last page I saw the title page of the Sept 1998 issue which has see-through titles. I think this looks nicer than the title page of the Sept 2013 issue which has the white of the titles blanked out. Compare the two and you'll see what I mean.
I also agree with posts to date - and congratulations to the packing & distribution team, mine came this morning and I think this may be a record to receive it mid week in the 3rd week of the month?
I like the easy to read housestyle typeface and also the topic headers. New page 2 layout is good and nice to see a contents index! I still wait in vain to see the complete committee's names and contact details published however - there must be many members who aren't actually aware who is on the committee and it would be nice to be all-informed!
Layout excellent and the new design allowing larger photos is very much welcomed. Branchlines looks much better and must have taken quite a bit of work to arrive at a standard format. Still 2 Groups continuing to use first names only - come on Group secs please acknowledge that the other 1390 members don't know who Bill, Fred, Peregrine etc are unless you tell us their full names the first time they are mentioned! Not sure how you are going to control Branchlines in 2 pages if every group sends something in at the same time, but I'm sure you'll be able to cross that bridge when you come to it!
The idea that Tom piloted about doing a modelling idea feature on particular narrow gauge lines has a lot of potential but obviously needs to be handled with care. The L&MV "pilot" is good, featuring an excellent layout idea plan - I very much like the innovative idea regarding the backscene that Paul Steedman has used. For the benefit of those who aren't fully L&MV educated I think a summary of the lines locos and stock would have been a good idea to include. Something to bear in mind for future articles perhaps? Rather than reinventing the wheel with the well known lines in this feature, perhaps some of the less well known ones such as Rye & Camber, one of the dam construction railways or a preserved operation like the Bredgar and Wormshill would be good material?
My only slight concern is with the new cover page, which has the cover photo using most of the page, This is great if you have a suitable photo, but when I was part of the editorial team we rapidly discovered that Portrait format photos with the loco in the right place to avoid being hidden behind the title banner of the mag were much more difficult to source or crop to fit than the much more common landscape format photos.
But that is not intended to be a negative
Just seen mine, it was waiting when I got home this afternoon.
I must say it is a great improvement, very readable, nice and clear, well set out. The bigger photos are very effective.
I like the greater range of articles too, the layout idea for example is stimulating.
Well done, keep it up!
Frank
Quote from: MickT on September 18, 2013, 16:45
I also agree with posts to date - and congratulations to the packing & distribution team, mine came this morning and I think this may be a record to receive it mid week in the 3rd week of the month?
Mick
Don't get too excited, the slightly earlier dispatch date is a one-off special this issue only, in order to ensure it was in member's hands at least a week before the Convention. Normal service will be resumed next month, - - we try to arrange packing to be on the 3rd Wednesday of the month so UK based members receive it about the 3rd Saturday.
Garry
The efforts of all concerned in Leeds with getting the News to everyone, consistently every month, is still very much appreciated Garry.
Mick
Thanks all, pleased you like it! Like Steve has said above, we've been wondering what the reception would be...
We'll take on board comments about the cover and look at options, as mentioned we'll be revising the masthead once the anniversary year is over. Perhaps we can review options for the cover then.
I think we can now take photos specifically for the cover with the new design in mind - we already have next month's planned (hope you like it!).
Mick,re the L&M article. We'll certainly look at unusual prototypes, but I'm keen to look at common prototypes in a different way to normal as well. I did initially draft it with a stock list, but there just wasn't the space. If there's a way around this in the future we'l explore how to make it work - it may mean expanding it to 2.5 or even 3 pages, but I'm conscious of detracting space for genuine member produced content as well. Like the rest I'm sure this is something we'll find our way on with time. I've got an idea of what the next one will be, just need to discuss drawing the track plan with Paul. I don't see this being a monthly feature purely because of the pressure of drawing the trackplans and compiling the info on that regularly, perhaps bi-montly.
Other regular features we've discussed are features on members (bit like a set question list interview) - perhaps going some way to addressing Mick's comments about the committee, but obviously open to all. Another idea is also a feature on manufacturers who serve the society and our members - I've got something lined up on this for publication soon. Finally we've also discussed re-running old content from several years (decades) which many members may not have seen, again being conscious of not taking over new, member produced, content.
I'd welcome any other content ideas people have.
Thanks to the distribution team, glad we've got it out there in good time for members to see before the Convention!
I'm liking the look... Only just got home to look at it, but at first glance, very good :)
Short answer: I like it.
Slightly longer answer: it seems "floppier" than usual - have you changed the paper weight in order to accomodate the extra 4 pages?
I like the larger font and I am much happier with the page numbers having been moved to the outside. Thanks for that.
The standardized Branchlines layout is good and I like it. However to pick up Mick's point about surnames and speaking from experience, some people don't want surnames used. There's a fine line between privacy regs and publishing some things. I'm out of date on UK regs but NL ones even require explicit permission to have your photo published (recently had a case with the online phone book in work). Not trying to be controversial, just wondering where the line is.
Personally I'd knock the article headers down a font size or possibly two but that's just personal preference.
As for the content... may post on that when I get round to reading it all :-)
Job well done. Congrats and thanks.
No changes to the paper, I hadn't noticed any appreciable difference in 'floppiness'.
Managing Branchlines is another of the things we'll have to work out how to deal with as we progress, we're conscious of the conflicting views of much of the membership on this section of the News, so will treat it with caution as we refine the changes in future issues.
Fancy a career in politics, Tom? ;D ;D ;D
As he's a civil servant he's already half way qualified.
Mick
As Mick has said, it comes with the job ;) Not sure that's a good thing, but rather a product of repeatdely defending why you don't have any money to do xyz...
Anyway, back to the News.
Keep Branchlines where it is and at two pages max, Tom, people can cut their articles down if needbe. I always felt that it was starting to take over the old mag... This one as a consequence seems much better balanced with much more stuff relevant to encouraging people to model...
Oh and I've written the article and will stick it on a CD and bring it along to the convention on the Sunday!
It is a thumb
Quote from: cornelius on September 18, 2013, 20:24
<snipped>
Quote from: MickT on September 18, 2013, 16:45
My only slight concern is with the new cover page, which has the cover photo using most of the page, This is great if you have a suitable photo, but when I was part of the editorial team we rapidly discovered that Portrait format photos with the loco in the right place to avoid being hidden behind the title banner of the mag were much more difficult to source or crop to fit than the much more common landscape format photos.
Similarly we'll continue to assess how well this works, if we find ourselves without an image that suits that format we'll do something different!
Thanks again everyone, keep the comments coming.
I must admit that it might be nice to consider some of the artwork that we used before we were able to easily and cheaply put a photo on the cover, but then I might be biased as Dad did quite a few of the pen and ink drawings that were used!
Thinking about what i said about Branchlines has given me an idea... You mentioned that you were looking at articles on "members", how about a series on the Local Groups. One thing that always annoyed me about BLs is that among the "howmanyturnedupwhatweateandwhereitwas" there were some gems about what people were modelling but we don't get to find out any more...
So an article on a Group could include their Member's interests, any Members Days they put on, where to find them, how often and where their meetings are, etc., etc. A plug for the group but with a bit more depth about what they model, with photos, so as to encourage other people to come along?
Thumbs up from me too!
I'll speak to Julien... If he's not already seen it!!
Rather busy at the moment but felt I needed to take the time out to say job well done. Like the clarity and Branchlines at the back. I agree with Mick a list of committee members names would be helpful.
Malcolm
Thanks for keeping the toughts on the new format coming.
Like Steve has said, I like the idea of an article on area groups. If anyone is interested in this please email contents@009society.com to discuss.
Quote from: Hobby on September 19, 2013, 09:47
Thinking about what i said about Branchlines has given me an idea... You mentioned that you were looking at articles on "members", how about a series on the Local Groups. One thing that always annoyed me about BLs is that among the "howmanyturnedupwhatweateandwhereitwas" there were some gems about what people were modelling but we don't get to find out any more...
So an article on a Group could include their Member's interests, any Members Days they put on, where to find them, how often and where their meetings are, etc., etc. A plug for the group but with a bit more depth about what they model, with photos, so as to encourage other people to come along?
Quote from: cornelius on September 19, 2013, 10:00
Yes, this is definitely something we'd like to do. Would the West Mids group like to lead the charge? We can work with you to figure out a good format for it.
Quote from: Hobby on September 19, 2013, 10:23
I'll speak to Julien... If he's not already seen it!!
I have now...and thanks for dropping me in it mate! :o Not to worry ;D
Steve, Tom, perhaps we can have a chat at Kegworth (Blair too if you are going to be there).
Julien, Blair, happy to have a chat about an article next weekend - let's catch up in the bar to discuss at some point :)
Julien, I'll write something and you can add/amend it, I didn't mean you to do the lot! I'm only at the Convention on Sunday as I'm working the rest of the weekend so have your drinks and let me know what you want and I'll get on with it!!
I have just got around to reading the latest issue this morning in bed. It arrived earlier, but it's been pretty much a case of coming home, eating and straight to bed!
I do like the new layout. It is tidy and not too much of a break with tradition. It is the little things like sans serif font, good line spacing and appropriately wide columns that add such a lot (dyslexia apparently didn't exist when I was growing up, you were just a slow learner).
I like the range of articles (but of course the editors don't have ultimate control over this).
My only "complaint" is that it was too short! (Of course this was because I pretty much read it from cover to cover in one go.)
I'll send a fuller reply in an email Tom; Sadly I didn't have a chance to do so as the new News arrived just as I was off to Scotland to play proper trains *ducks to avoid salvo from Mick's Armourlite*.
However, in a few short words and in no way disrespectful to Mark who also did a splendid job, all I will say here is Excellent, Superb, Wonderful Presentation and a worthy facelift for the new decade. Well done to both halves of the Editorial team.
The donkey delivered mine today-I like it.
Without wishing to be pedantic but in case anyone gets hold of a centre models coach kit,the chassis is white metal NOT brass
Having hurriedly read the latest News before departing for Kegworth, I have to say I like the new look. A couple of points on previous feedback..
As scribe of Branchlines for the Sussex mob I try to keep it reasonably short, and some months struggle to find anything attention grabbing to say, but that's probably more to do with the fact that we often sit around nattering about all sorts of things not necessarily railway connected, rather than doing anything. However, the idea of staggering the size of content is interesting. Perhaps we could be designated the months in which we can submit a "big" report, and be restricted to just a diary of forthcoming meetings and exhibitions in the intervening issue - quarterly maybe?
Picking up a point MickT made earlier regarding photos for the cover and squeezing landscape shots onto a portrait format. Why do magazines have to be in portrait format anyway? My back issues are kept in box files so the orientation is irrelevant - they are still A4 sized. What's wrong with a landscape 009 News. I'm not into publishing so I'm sure there will be any number of reasons why we couldn't, but I throw it into the mix just to be contrary!
Martin Collins
Quote from: Tigger on September 25, 2013, 12:10
*ducks to avoid salvo from Mick's Armourlite*.
The correct term is ArmaLite David (I had one of them as a personal weapon in Malaysia - 5.56 rapid fire automatic assault rifle - wouldn't cut a tree in half like the good old 7.62 SLR but much lighter to carry when hacking through the jungle).
The basic AR15 ArmaLite was designed for the US Army in the 1960's when it was found they couldnt' cope with the heavier British rifle what with all the cans of coke and self-cooking tinned burgers that they had to carry around with them until we had hacked clearings out of the bondooks to allow their Jolly Green Giant 'copters to airlift in some emergency PX shops and Bob Hope's CSI shows.
Anyway after taking some 900 photos over the weekend at Kegworth, I am now suffering from shutter finger and wouldn't be able to use the trigger on a more lethal pointy weapon so you have been absolved of the capital crime of poor maintenance of the calibration on your priority control node and therefore forgiven for your absence on this occasion.
You will have gathered from the postings already made post-convention that you missed a good'un.
Sorry - going into thread-drift here - back to 009 News Feedback - I look forward to the result of the little challenge that Tom and Steve have set themselves to get a 6 page Convention report sorted out before the printing deadline from the 2000 images that they had collected from camera owners by Saturday night, without the added ones they will have picked up on Sunday!
Good luck guys!
Mick
Quote from: MickT on September 30, 2013, 18:18
Sorry - going into thread-drift here - back to 009 News Feedback - I look forward to the result of the little challenge that Tom and Steve have set themselves to get a 6 page Convention report sorted out before the printing deadline from the 2000 images that they had collected from camera owners by Saturday night, without the added ones they will have picked up on Sumday!
Good luck guys!
Mick
We're making progress, Mick! ;D I need a lie down now though!