Those of you who also are on the NGRM forum may have seen this before, but I decided to copy it to the 009 Society forum and try to catch up with what I wrote elsewhere.
At the moment I am building a L&M Kitson, using the Meridian (ex Centre Models) body kit and a Backwoods L&B chassis. Both were obtained at Expong about 10 years ago and they are still staring me in the face.
Why not a Minitrix chassis which the Meridian kit was adapted to? Obviously the inside frames put me off for this rather huge narrow gauge loco with its low-slung look and big balance weights whirling round outside the frames. I would have had to do a false frame job on it but I wondered if building a straight outside frame chassis wasn't an easier approach, more so as I would have to re-motor the Minitrix chassis into the bargain.
The Backwoods L&B 2-6-2 was chosen as the wheel diameter and axle spacing are very similar to the Manifold loco and the height of the frames is close enough. Obviously the rear of the frames will have to be modified to accommodate the bogie, and there are other issues like the peculiar cranks/balance weights and the Walschaerts valve gear as the L&B chassis includes an etch for a Joy motion. The crank issue is being solved already by the kind cooperation of another modeller.
It is over 10 years since I built my C&M 'Atlantic' from a Backwoods kit so I will have to re-learn brass kit soldering, at least for the chassis.
Just to compare, I superimposed the frames of the Backwoods L&B chassis over the 4mm scale drawing in the April 1996 Railway Modeller. You will notice I laid a steel ruler next to the scale on the drawing just to check on the dimensions.
I appear to have bitten off quite a big chunk here as the frames will need considerable modification. Serves me right...
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You will see that the frame height is all right, but apart from it having to be cut away and extended, the shape of the frames at the front and rear end is wrong. The Kitson style frames would have to be altered anyway as the swing of the front truck and the bogie will need considerable more space than allowed by the Kitson frames. The wheelbase is about 1mm too long, which doesn't bother me - 25mm instead of 24mm.
Using the Backwoods chassis seems to be a good idea as most of the precision work has already been done in the etch. In addition the kit includes a motor, gears, wheels, bushes and all kinds of odds and ends that will help me build a working loco.
It seems there is an etch being produced by Robert Thompson for L&M valve gear which will replace the Joy gear of the Backwoods chassis.
1. Fitting the bearings to the frames
Yesterday I fitted the bearings into the Backwoods L&B frames, experiencing some problems. The bearings are brass bushes with a flange on the end. They go in from the inside of the frame, where the half etched rivet holes can be seen. I supported the complete etch and put in the bearings, having to slightly ream one or two holes in the frame plates. Then I applied a little flux to each bearing, rotating them slightly so the flux would be spread. A tiny sliver of solder next to each bearing was enough - heat the bearing and it will flow in.
The main challenge is to grind down the protruding part of the bearing bush flush with the frame. Pete Mc Parlin in his construction guide says to grind it down with a sanding or grinding disk in a minidrill. A file leaves marks on the frames. Well, I tried grinding it down one bearing and succeeded in overshooting so I went a fraction into the frame. It's not too bad but I decided to go easier with the other bearings. I finished one with a file and indeed left marks. So back to the grindstone again and go very easy. I finished all using fine wet-and-dry emery paper. The damage done is not too bad - it will be hidden anyway.
The bearings fitted into the frame, with one ground down slightly too deep:
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The reverse side, showing the flanges where they are soldered to the frames. The excess solder on the faces has been removed using a file and emery paper.
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The outside faces of the frames with the bearings trimmed flush. Note a few file marks and the lower left bearing ground slightly too deep. Otherwise all is well.
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To conclude, I think having to grind or file down the bearings flush with the frames isn't a happy solution. I would prefer bearings being better sized.
To be continued!
2 - assembling the frames, first stage
I first embossed the rivets on the frame. These are in a different place from those on the Kitson, but who cares. On a Backwoods kit that is done by giving one or more soft taps against a sharp tool put into the half etched holes in the back of each frame. The frames will curl a little, but they can be bent into shape again. Use a piece of soft wood under the etch, in this case the workbench edge.
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The second photo shows the frame assembly released from the etch using a sharp knife. The embossed rivets show up clearly.
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Next the frames are folded along the half etch lines of the rear end bridge. Note that I haven't yet done a thing about cutting away the pieces of frame that have to go. I'll tackle that later. Possibly a wrong choice, but I'm feeling my way along as much as anyone else would have done.
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Now the wheelsets are assembled, with a 25 tooth gear on the rear axle. This is a push fit, as are the insulated wheels. The 7.4mm back to back gauge I made up some time ago is a great help. I'm not going to 7.5mm as some of the old Peco points I have don't like that. The wheelsets are inserted in the frame with an insulating washer adding a slight space to prevent the insulated wheels touching the frame on their side. Naturally all wheelsets were put in with the insulated wheel to the same side.
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Now the motor mount is taken out of the etch and folded. On the L&B chassis this includes brake cylinder supports and the cab steps. The cab steps were cut off as they aren't needed. I only left their stretchers on, but probably these will have to go as well. Note the solder blotches, these can be filed off later. No need for clean soldering here as this goes under the footplate anyway.
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Finally, the front bridge is added to the frames, and the bridge piece under the frames below the motor mount. When I will cut away the rear frames I will start from the lower bridge piece which can be seen in the second photo below.
Note that at the front some more stiffening is needed. The Backwoods chassis has a fold-up cylinder block assembly which fits in a slot in the frames just behind the front bridge. I will solder a piece of the edge of the N/S etch into this to improve the rigidity of the chassis.
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The chassis now runs smoothly through all trackwork, although I notice one wheel - again - isn't quite true. It does run rather better though than Atlantic's chassis which is made up with the old style wheels.
To be continued!
3 - fitting the footplate
I had to remove some whitemetal from the footplate to make it a snug fit on the chassis. The material to be removed is indicated below:
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I used a variety of ways to remove the whitemetal bogie mount, a piece around the front mounting hole which I won't use, and a few cast-on strips at the back of the footplate. Grinding away with a grindstone disc in a minidrill is a heartbreaking process as the whitemetal starts to smear and even clogs up the grindstone. In the end it is reduced but the finishing needs to be done with a file and a sharp knife. The bogie mount is intended to take a screw running in a slit in the bogie, but any sliding connection to a bogie is an unhappy solution - I prefer a swing link. So I fitted a hacksaw in the vice and ran the circular mounting boss against it, using my nails to keep the footplate itself away from the saw blade:
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After having cut into the whitemetal boss from both sides, I gripped it with pliers to break it off:
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Next, using a scalpel and a file, I cleaned up the remaining pieces until the underside of the footplate was flat. The scalpel can be used to shave away the whitemetal. Keep your fingers away from the business end as this strains the scalpel blade which may break or suddenly end up in your finger. In the lower photo, note the tiny notches that clear the tiny tabs on top of the frames where the Backwoods motion bracket was supposed to go in. These provide convenient locating aids.
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Here is the footplate resting on the chassis, the back end of which will have to be cut away to clear the bogie:
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Note the footplate may need further cutting away to clear the motor. This would help losing some weight at the rear end.
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With this final photo showing the chassis fitting flat against the footplate I will end this post.
This morning when I tailored the whitemetal footplate to the chassis and sat it on the track, I found that all insulated wheels to some degree aren't running true. The tail heavy footplate probably pressed down on the rear wheels, and it yaws like a flat bottom barge sailing before the wind. So even the insulated Jackson wheels in this kit are no good. I wonder how to proceed. Order new ones hoping they are better? The uninsulated ones seem to be good. I can easily take apart the chassis again as nothing has been fitted but the motor mount and a few bridge pieces.
Perhaps if I quarter the cranks so all wheels are 'in phase', only a slight movement will remain.
To be continued!
Brilliant work Ted, you have given me the urge to get on with my half complete Backwoods 'Russell'. I'm at the dangly bits stage that has stopped me. Although I have built three other similar kits I still need to build up my own confidence to tackle the motion and fit on to the model.
Roger
Thanks Roger - the motion is a tricky thing indeed. Even once the quartering is done you have the tiny bits to solder together without locking them up. Paper barriers etc.
But for the moment I'm stuck with the wheels. What are your experiences with the Jackson wheels? Rod Allcock advises to order Jackson disc wheels but I wonder if these are any better. Perhaps the answer is to quarter them all 'in phase' so the bunker end doesn't pitch up and down and only a slight rolling motion remains.
Ted
Regardless of what route you go down, off-centre wheels will always be off-centre wheels and in years to come you will regret it if the loco does not run evenly, not the same thing as smoothly. In my experience, off-centre wheels are caused by either the insulating bushes going out of true when fitting the wheels to the axles, or by the effect of heat on the bushes when soldering on the flycranks. The insulating bushes on the Jackson wagon wheels seem to be made of a firmer substance than those on the spoked wheels, and using the methods I have explained to you I have never had a problem since. But it's up to you.
Rod
If the bushes on the solid wheels are more robust perhaps that's the way to go. I can have a try at ordering a set of six wheels and see how they turn out. I just had a close look at the wheels in the chassis and they are absolutely no good, being about as bad as the ones previously supplied by Backwoods. They may have been a bad lot, I don't know, but as it's 10 years ago since I got them it cannot be traced anymore.
The last few posts prompted me to look at my Backwoods locos trying to remember how I put them together. It is now seventeen years since I built the first loco of my two versions of the Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2Ts. I had problems with the plastic spokes when fitting the valve gear like others have had. I dismantled the chassis and replaced the wheels with Alan Gibson solid disc wheels on the advice of Pete. Disc wheelsets were fitted when buiding the second VOR loco from the outset. I then moved on to a 'Canopus' kit that has spoked wheels and smaller diameter brass axles. This time I made sure I flooded the chassis with plenty of water when soldering the cranks to the axles. It worked and so does the model. When I came to build my L&B loco 'LEW' the same method was employed and I am pleased to say that too runs well so far. As mentioned in my previous post I am now at that stage of putting the motion together and then to attach them to the 'Russell' chassis. The cranks are already fitted with just a little tightness in one part of the wheel rotation. The VOR locos were the same but the tightness disappeared as they got run-in so I am hoping the same will apply with my 'Russell'.
Roger
Thanks Roger - the problem isn't soldered cranks distorting the wheel centres (I haven't yet fitted cranks), but the plastic insulation muffs in the wheels that are out of true. The all metal wheels run almost perfect, but there is about 1/10 mm of wobble on the insulated ones (all of them in fact) which is greatly exaggerated on the end of the chassis when I run it over the track.
The Alan Gibson wheels have black plastic centres and these are out of true on 'Atlantic', again not due to soldering the cranks as I water cooled them carefully. With the new nickel silver wheels I had hopes the problem would be over but it's still there.
Meanwhile I found out the Jackson wheels Rod advises seem to be the same as 4mm scale Romford wagon wheels on 2mm axles. These are in the Markits catalogue.
A little tightness in these chassis at the start isn't unusual. I flooded the bearings and the crankpins of Atlantic with polishing paste and ran the chassis with the wheels in the air until the tightness had worn away.
You can also use space age epoxy and glue the cranks on...
Mal.
I was thinking of Loctite. But I will have to wait for wheels and cranks first - I'm afraid there is a slight delay to the project! ::)
4 - modifying the frames
Having removed the offending wheels and ordered new ones, I decided to use the interval to have a go at modifying the rear end of the frames from a Lynton & Barnstaple Manning Wardle pattern to the much longer Kitson 2-6-4 frames. The difference is indicated in blue on the image below, superimposed on the Railway Modeller diagram.
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As the frames over the rear bogie are quite shallow, I decided to use a piece of 1.5mm square brass pipe both as frame extenders and as a cutting guide (the green shape on the diagram). I cut two pieces of pipe to length and soldered them inside the frames with 11mm protruding. The soldering was done using 145 degree solder as opposed to the 188 degree stuff used for the frames.
The reasoning behind this was that if the frames have to be unsoldered to fit new wheels, I can try and remove the extensions, just in case I need to bend the frames more than allowed by the brass pipes, without disturbing more than I want to.
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On the outside of the frame I lightly scribed the approximate contour of the curve to cut away behind the wheels. You may have noticed that beforehand I also cut away the unnecessary extensions to the motor mount protruding outside the frames. This allowed me to clamp the unit in a vice for the cutting operation.
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Then I carefully cut the frames, using the brass pipe as a saw guide:
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Next, I ground away the diagonal angle to a nice curve, which isn't exactly the shape of the prototype, but near enough to satisfy me. The pieces of frame cut off then were measured against the protruding pipes and shortened:
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And finally these were soldered against the square pipe, resulting in a neatly spliced frame. Again, the shape isn't exactly that of the prototype, but it should be good enough.
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The forward end of the frames needs a part cut out, following the half etched pattern in the frame and a bit more, but I will delay that until the chassis has been fitted with wheels and can be braced up front.
To be continued!
I realise I have been remiss in following up this thread on the Society forum. Since I lacked some parts to continue work on the chassis, I decided to have a go at the whitemetal body. I have taken heed of the dire warnings about weight at the bunker end of the loco, and I decided to check on the balance of the whitemetal body before assembling it altogether. And indeed, there is considerable weight aft that will either have to be eliminated or balanced.
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I removed some excess metal from the rear of the footplate. I cut a rectangle out of the whitemetal right in the spot where the motor wil be. This would have cleared the whitemetal, but anyway it removes some weight.
Then I put together the boiler, smokebox and the tanks and cab sides. The boiler has an upper and a lower part and is integral with the tank tops and bottom. They were glued together with neoprene glue right where the wide gap can be seen in front of the tanks. The neoprene would keep them together during the fitting process of the tank sides and smokebox. These had to be filed to size slightly, but all went together with a minimum of trouble. The tank/cab sides were glued in with cyanoacrylate gel. They slightly force the boiler/tanks top and bottom apart but that was what I needed the neoprene glue for as it stays a little flexible.
The smokebox saddle had to be thinned down a little so it would fit between the frame ridges on top of the footplate. Then it could be glued on with cyano gel, flattening out the assembly on the workbench top.
The cab doors are thick whitemetal and these may have to be cut out and replaced by a piece of brass or nickel silver sheet for strength. The cab front is a loose fit - it may have to be replaced by styrene. The bunker, the cab roof and cab rear will all be replaced by lighter material, probably styrene. There will be a lot of weight added at the front end - smokebox front, dome, chimney, cylinders, headlight, sandboxes etc.
The body will fit over the motor mount. In view of the weight needed to balance the rear end, I am considering fitting a Mashima 12/20 can motor instead of the 10/15 supplied.
Shape of things to come:
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The loco body set up on the frame, blocked up on the track at Rae Bridge. Note I used the whitemetal roof and cab front which will be discarded. Smokebox front, chimney and dome only slotted in place.
It will be a huge loco, but very similar to the size of many of my other locomotives. The kit includes numerous detail parts not yet shown. You will have seen the fit of the tank sides isn't very good, but most of this will be camouflaged by detail parts, or by filling the gaps.
A balancing act. Warning: calculations ahead!
The Kitson model, as indicated above, is very tail heavy. I wondered how much or how many of the whitemetal castings to remove or discard so I could still keep the loco in some sort of balance.
Normally when a loco is on its wheels, I balance it using letter scales, resting the front wheels on the scales and the rear wheels on a pile of books. In this case the wheels are still on order, so I had to resort to a different method. I passed two 2mm drill bits through the bearings and supported this on two paint tins at one end, and a plastic casting under the drill bit at the other end.
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Usually I don't do a detailed analysis but I simply add weight until the balance evens out a little. In this case I don't want too much weight. So I did a few tests and some calculations, and I came upon the following.
The entire Kitson model at this stage weighs 120g, which excludes a lot of detail castings. To compare, the completed model of Atlantic weighs 150g. Using the letter scales I determined that of the 120g, 35 is on the forward wheels and 85 on the rear wheels, a difference of 50g. If we assume the centre wheels are the pivot point, and the distance to each of the outer axles is 1.3cms, the leverage exerted is 85-35=50g*1.3cms, which is equals +65g*cms (+65 for short).
- Adding the motor adds 10g at a 3cm distance to the rear: leverage +30.
- Adding chimney, dome, cylinders etc adds 20g to the front at a mean distance of 2cms : leverage -40.
- Adding 20g of lead in the smokebox, between the frames and in the front end of the tanks will add a leverage of -32.
Removing the whitemetal bunker sides/cab doors would remove 8 g from the rear at a 5.5cms and result in a leverage of -40 g*cms. This is most effective but I don't want to remove these as it will mean I have to rebuild the entire cab/bunker assembly. So I will be adding lead to the front. The end result will be a leverage of 65+30-40-32g*cms = +23g*cms.
The entire model with motor, detail and ballast, but excluding wheels, will weigh about 120+10+20+20=170g, with about 23/1.3 = 17g (10%) bias towards the rear wheels.
All this is theory, but I now know enough to leave the cab and bunker sides intact. ;)
In order to fit the footplate, which is the base of the entire body, to the chassis, I carefully soldered two nuts to very thin brass shim and managed keep the thread free from solder. Inserting a screw proved to be enough to clear the thread in the nut. So I cut out the squares of shim and superglued them to the footplate, after flooding the inside of the nut with a drop of oil to prevent the screw sticking. I filed a tiny recess in the bottom of the smokebox saddle, and it seems that all fits...
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3211.jpg&hash=4037b782e36681bff5f6adbaf460cbdcc3cccbb9)
Wheels!
A few days ago the wheels I ordered from Markits arrived. They are 16.5mm gauge 10.5mm diameter solid disc tender wheels on 26mm pin-point axles, live on one side.
My first impression was they ran true and were very tight on the axles, both the live and the insulated wheels. After consulting with Rod about the best way to tackle conversion to 9mm gauge loco wheels, today I converted all of them. This proved to take about an hour's work.
To convert one wheelset, I first supported the insulated wheel on pliers. I opened the jaws of the small vice I use and supported the plier jaws on top of them with the live wheel below and the insulated wheel on top. Then I took a small hammer and lightly tapped on the pin point of the axle, just using the weight of the hammer and letting it fall. The axle dropped a little after only a few light taps and I could press it out of the wheel by supporting the flattened pin point on a hard surface.
Next, I tried tapping the live wheel back on its axle, so a long enough stub would protrude for me to remove the pin point at the live end:
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Again, just lift the hammer and let it fall on to the axle end by itself. The jaws of my vice are lined with brass to prevent the steel from scratching the wheel or the axle.
A few taps resulted in enough of the axle stub protruding from the wheel face to be able to saw off the pin point. I use a Roco track saw for the purpose. Note that the axle is gripped between the brass-lined jaws of the vice - these will not close quite parallel so you need some force and mind the axle may slip a little whilst sawing. The Roco saw is lightly applied and the entire length of the blade is used:
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The stub end of the axle is then trimmed by clamping it in a minidrill and applying a file to the end. First the end is trimmed flat, then a slight chamfer introduced to the edge:
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Next, the other end is sawed off after carefully measuring 18.7mm using calipers. The other end is clamped in the vice without using the liners and tightened up. The end will be discarded, so a bit of damage won't matter. Note the saw cut made after marking out the axle. The end is trimmed similar to the one next to the live wheel:
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Now the length of the axle is checked in the calipers - it should not be less that 18.7mm to leave enough for the cranks to go on.
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Using the back to back gauge, and after pressing on the pinion, I re-fitted and set the insulated wheel, resulting in this:
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I repeated the procedure for the other wheelsets, and now I'm left with three pairs of wheels which I expect will run rather better than the old ones:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3240.jpg&hash=92713781cb7f087b126d5b226f4973a9fe89daf9)
To be continued!
... and I'm pleased to show the loco is now on its wheels again!
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So now we can go on completing and balancing the body, and add the pony truck. To be continued!
Yesterday night I had a go at modifying the front end of the frames. Here a cut-out is needed for the front truck. Before I did anything I beefed up the frames using the same square section brass pipe used at the back of the frame, and I added a cross brace in the slots meant for the cylinder block of the L&B loco kit. This made the front end quite rigid.
For the cut-out I used part of the half etched circle on the Backwoods frames. This is intended for the pony truck of the L&B loco when used on sharp curves. The half circle was extended in a straight line to end up at the bottom of the front buffer beam. Here is the result, which still needs a little tidying up. Note the vertical cross brace inserted in the frame slots just behind the fixing screw:
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The pony truck wheels are underscale which is necessary to clear the frames on my sharp hidden curves. Outside frames will be added to the truck - castings are included in the Meridian body kit.
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To be continued.
I have been wrestling with the bogie and the leading truck, not so much making them swing, but how to attach a coupling which has to swing even more and stay within the frames. The overhang on my minimum radius hidden curve (9") is ridiculous.
The Markits wheels are much better, and yesterday I received a package from Jeff Bissonnette, who kindly made up a beautiful set of cranks and balance weights for me, including some to spare:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3276.jpg&hash=cc7a310626a1e8b4ab0fbe94ae93b7ccb92d9f0f)
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To answer a query about minimum radius etc here are a few photos of the model positioned on the 12" curve around the headland outside Dunalistair. I temporarily put on the whitemetal roof and bunker parts which will be replaced by styrene. You'll see there is some overhang but it doesn't look too bad.
Yesterday I completed the bogie and a fixed coupling, which proves to track well through all the curves - I pushed the chassis through about half of the main line using another loco.
The front truck will have to be reconsidered. I thought of using a complete N gauge truck with coupling. It works, but it is too short and too light, and the coupling had to be replaced by a long one which I don't like.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3293.jpg&hash=7d9715812b919faad00dbf01f0788dcfa0becd63)
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(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3299.jpg&hash=43729aa06068057e110b9ca1ab61cc3d71a07872)
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I used fixed Arnold K
Meanwhile, I completed the front truck, which called for some trial and error. For reasons of weight I decided to use the whitemetal parts in the Meridian kit. I packed the sides of the truck frame so the wheels wouldn't have too much slack and help them track properly. Then I locked up the wheels in the frame by gluing the cover on. Note that I had filed down the pinpoints on the axle first.
The hole in the truck frame was too big for the pivot screw, so I made up a bush from a bit of brass tube, which I filed out using a dentist's drill. Long ago I made friends with my dentist, who supplied me with a number of worn bits which I still use. The bush was superglued into the hole. Next, I bent a piece of border strip from the N/S etch in a U shape so it would cover part of the wheels, with about 1mm play so it wouldn't touch. This was superglued to the front of the frame as a base for the axlebox castings.
The axlebox castings were then cut down and lightly fixed to the N/S strip using neoprene glue. This enabled me to check on clearances and adjust the castings before flooding the join with superglue. Then a piece of N/S strip was glued on top of the truck frame to support the N gauge coupling, which just clears the slot in the bufferbeam. This is how it looks from above:
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... and from below:
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Next, the chassis with the truck in place, showing it clears the frames by a fraction. I had to do a bit of fettling to the castings and to the frames to enable a clear swing:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3343.jpg&hash=19484f256dd0ed05bdc10ce074efab7ddac646a4)
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Finally I ran the chassis over the layout, pushing it with another loco. This brought a few minor problems to light which were solved by more fettling to the truck, the bogie and the chassis.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3336.jpg&hash=52a831e06c5be91d1311f9cd5f3fbed115c15d29)
To be continued!
Meanwhile, since outside it has been raining all morning, I decided to have a go at fitting the cranks using Jeff Bissonette's quartering tool.
Actually, this is a very accurate press tool that uses the crankpin to position the crank. You first clamp the tool on the axle using two hooks to press it down on the bed of the centre unit of the tool. This has a space for a pinion to go into. The double hook attachment is tightened using a small screw on the back, as can be seen from the photos:
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The centre unit slides on two rails that are fixed into one end piece. Each end piece has a number of crankpin holes at different throws to suit various cranks, and a machined stud that will press the crank into place. The fixed end piece has one crank fitted with the axle hole positioned against the axle end. The other end piece then is slid on to the rails with the crank fitted in place. Very carefully you press the two end pieces together so the cranks engage on the axle. Then the tool and the chassis are put into the vice, which is then carefully tightened:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3375.jpg&hash=4f520348608afb5dc2c82c2c6c2513764fce87ba)
During tightening, the cranks should be observed to slide on to the axle ends. A slight chamfer on each axle end helps to get them on without hesitation. The tool and the chassis can be taken out and the tool taken apart to observe whether the cranks are fully on. In one case I found a crank hesitated a little before it went home, but as I found it was part of the way in, I could tighten the tool a little more without risk.
One thing to watch for is that you fit the fixed end piece always to the same side of the chassis, so one crank on each axle correctly leads the other.
The end result is a perfectly quartered chassis. I checked with the coupling rods, still devoid of brass bearing bushes, and it revolves perfectly:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3382.jpg&hash=9bf3f15f26737e221b15e1550260100fbd704fbf)
Thanks to Jeff's excellent tool this job took only about 45 minutes for the entire chassis. It has taken a lot of worry out of chassis building. Thanks, Jeff!
To be continued!
Ted
I see from the first photo on page 2 with that hammer reminds me of my marine engineering background and what you probably learnt in the ship's engine room workshop's you sailed on.
Excellent work though, Ted, well done. You are answering one of 009's worst nightmares, getting a quality chassis under the Centre Models cum Meridian L&M loco.
Roger
Thanks, Roger. It is indeed a complicated project, but we will persevere! The engineering bit - you mean the brass lined vice jaws? That's what the ship's engineers taught me. But I didn't sail as an engineer...
Anyway, here is another photo of the loco with a coupling rod temporarily in place on the cranks:
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On to fiddly things
This morning, with a planned sailing day cancelled due to the wet conditions forecast, instead of sleeping late I woke up remembering I might have shot myself in the foot with fitting the cranks like I did. I should have shortened the axles slightly more, as now the cranks are about 1mm from the frames. I feared I wouldn't have enough space for the motion and especially the crossheads relative to the forward crankpin. So I took the ruler and did some measurements, comparing to the RM drawing. I found the cylinders on this loco are set very wide - outside the cylinders it measures 31mm. If I cut off the wedge shaped 'ears' from the footplate (hiding the valve covers) I could set the cylinders far enough apart to have all the space I needed. The valve covers are very thin after all, so a piece of thin sheet might do.
Having the whitemetal cylinders out I wondered about the crossheads and piston rods - these are notorious causes for valve gear binding, so they need to run absolutely free. I drilled out the cylinders and found there was too much slack for the piston rods (a one-piece lost wax casting including the crossheads which came with the Backwoods chassis). I found a piece of 1.6mm brass pipe which I drilled out to 1mm and inserted this into the cylinders. Then I cleaned up the piston rods and I was left with two smoothly running piston rods fitting the cylinders without too much play.
An afternoon filled with rather fiddly work and some experiment produced the left hand motion of the Kitson. I modified the slidebar etch that came with the Backwoods Manning Wardle chassis, made the crosshead run in it as intended and I made up a baseplate which will go under the footplate. The baseplate has two cut-outs to clear the balance weights. The slidebar etch was folded to shape and soldered to the baseplate after determining the position of the cylinder relative to the wheels. Eventually when I fit the assembly, this will be positioned so the crosshead will follow the connecting rod without locking up. Think of about 1mm either way. A bit of material was removed from the crosshead to ensure the longest possible travel - about 5.5 or 6mm.
Then, after some careful measuring, parts were taken from the RT Models etch. There is one part which is a combined radius rod and valve spindle. The valve spindle on the prototype went behind the footplate valance, so this is cut off. The remaining radius rod has two holes: one for the combination lever next to the crosshead, and another for half the expansion link. The radius rod is inserted into a small slot cut into the slidebar support - I merely opened out an existing slot. I first tried using the rivets provided by RT models, but these didn't splay properly, so I reverted to the rivets in the Backwoods chassis and soldered them to the back of the rods, using paper barriers.
The idea is to glue the cylinder to the baseplate. The slidebars slot into the cylinder. The cylinder will be glued to the loco frame and the baseplate spot soldered to the frame, so it lies flat under the footplate and the footplate can come off as intended.
The photos below show the unit temporarily assembled (minus the connecting rod) and a few component parts for the right hand motion.
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Some notes on the parts I used:
The slidebar assembly from the Backwoods chassis is made for the Joy valve gear of an L&B Manning Wardle. Some parts have to be removed, and there is something probably intended as a valve spindle which sprouts from the top slidebar. This is cut down and used as a second support for the top slidebar which is soldered to the baseplate in two places. It can clearly be seen in the photos.
The RT Models etch is well to scale when compared with the RM drawing and in consequence the parts are fragile, although strong enough when fitted in place. The holes in the parts must be opened out to 0.8mm, the size of the rivets supplied. Not having a 0.8mm drill means you have to judge it with a reamer and test with a rivet, rather a risky business. The big end in the conrod has a doubling piece and I fitted a washer underneath by threading all parts on to a toothpick and soldering them together.
Here is the motion put loosely into place to show you what it will look like:
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Note that the coupling rods are still absent, and the front and centre crankpins are still too long so I can't turn the wheels. The little end bearing in the crosshead is a small brass pin which I turned down in the minidrill. I will have to remove a little more from the rear of the crosshead and open out the big end pinhole to give a trifle more space on the rear crank, but it seems to work out all right.
Apart from the trial and error approach which means you have to feel your way along, it went reasonably well. Note that the first thing to do before fitting the motion units is to complete and fit coupling rods so we have a rolling chassis!
Done enough for one day, I think! Now I'm off for coffee and a book. :)
I just completed the other set of valve gear, 2 hours start to finish and a much neater job than the other side now I knew exactly what to do.
I also took opportunity to show how the paper barrier is applied to two parts of the valve gear under construction. The rivet is threaded through one rod, the paper snippet, then through the other rod. Then a tiny amount of flux is applied and the tinned soldering iron is used to touch the rivet and the join. The solder flows in and you're ready for the next one:
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After completing the assembly I ground down the protruding stubs of the rivets on the back and soldered the radius rod to the slide bar support.Both sets of valve gear run very freely. The available stroke is about 6mm, but the combination lever at the forward end strikes the boss on the cylinder. A tiny corner of this has to be fettled away:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3407.jpg&hash=4b087a80bdd3c7c95adcbe45a8e392ccdf7d7155)
Next is fitting the coupling rods, which will include grinding down the front and centre crankpins so they clear the motion. To be continued!
Coupling rods
Yesterday evening I made up the coupling rods and fitted them to the chassis. Instead of using the brass bushes included in the Backwoods chassis as locking washers I decided they would be better as bearing bushes. The intended use is a narrow nickel silver surface on brass, but if used as bearing bushes they would be brass on steel and much more durable. I expect the idea by Pete McParlin of Backwoods was to reduce the space needed for the coupling rods, but the Kitson chassis has ample space behind the crosshead.
So I reamed out the coupling rod holes and fitted the bushes, as shown below:
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The bushed coupling rods look pretty solid. I carefully ground off the protruding ends of the bushes on the rear, leaving only a narrow rim. I tested the rods on the cranks and thought they revolved freely, but I was in for a surprise later... Here is a close-up:
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Following this I fitted the coupling rods and soldered washers on the crankpins, fitting a scrap of paper under them to prevent everything locking up solid. I used low melt solder to avoid disturbing the Loctite bond where the crankpins are fitted into the cranks. The rear cranks were left without a washer as these will take the connecting rod big end, and a return crank for the valve gear. The protruding end of the crankpin and the excess solder was ground off:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3422.jpg&hash=92f464c98cf18d36b22d60db4dc510ee91c55b68)
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Then I tried turning the wheels and I found a single binding point! I couldn't understand why, but I think that the cause must be the axle bearings, the bushes in the coupling rods and possibly the flexing of the frames which in the middle don't yet have any support. Possibly the tiny amount of slack left when quartering the cranks with Jeff's tool added to the problem. However, the binding I found was slight so I expect it was a tolerance question - with all the tight bearings you need only one percent error when fitting a bearing bush in place. But I wasn't prepared to let this beat me.
Curing a binding chassis
As long as a bind is slight and the chassis is all metal, the answer is to polish off any offending bearing surface material that is in the way of a smooth movement. In 'Atlantic' I used Cif polisher, but this time I had a tin of 'Commandant' car cleaner to hand which I smeared liberally round the crankpins and the axle bearings. Turning the wheels now produced a slight grinding sound. Then I applied a fibre disc clamped in my minidrill and spun the wheels with it. The assembly rattled and clattered as the wheels and rods spun. I applied the disc to all the wheels and spun them both ways.
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Drops of old oil and cleaner went everywhere, but gradually the noise changed and I could turn the wheels without feeling much resistance. I checked on rod play and there seemed little increase.
So I cleaned the chassis using turpentine applied to the bearings with a brush, then washed it in a basin of lukewarm water with detergent. I spun the wheels again to get rid of most of the water before applying a hairdrier with the chassis held in my hand so I could feel how much heat I applied. Then I oiled the bearings and the crankpins, and lo and behold, the chassis ran smoothly!
To be continued.
Well done Ted - this is looking excellent! I've always wanted one of these on the L&TR and one day I might even get around to building up the bits I've got!
Thanks, David - glad you like it. It is rather a pig of a kit to begin with though, and making up a near scale chassis makes it more so!
Anyway the chassis has become very smooth, to the point I decided to fit the valve gear units. I first soldered a tiny bracket to the outside of each frame to support the base plate of each valve gear unit. This is a discarded piece of the Backwoods frame etch:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3432.jpg&hash=c64002b654e94705dae76733ecf1dc1af54faa5b)
Then I fitted styrene packing behind the cylinders (superglue) and tried to fit them against the frames. However, the washers on the crankpins proved to hit the baseplates, so I enlarged the cut-outs using the grindstone and a file. Also, the boss on the back of the cylinders was in the way - I should have removed the @#$% things to start with. Out came the file again. In the end I managed to fit the cylinders against the frames, about 1mm behind their scale locations, as the slidebars are too short to allow a longer stroke of the crosshead. These are tolerance problems due to using components from different sources.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3439.jpg&hash=9b68d14bb15e08bae3ac34d87aa449ce8010ab9c)
In the photograph above, note the way the connecting rods wriggle about. Either they are too flimsy, or I have been ham-fisted. I had to straighten them time and again. Luckily it isn't apparent from a normal viewing angle. The valve gear baseplates were soldered to the brackets on the frames using low melt solder, so the brackets wouldn't come adrift. Eagle-eyed readers will have seen the return cranks etc. are already assembled in these views.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3436.jpg&hash=c21c237e36c99b761b74a904a96dfc5c490f4752)
Some parts may still need a little cleaning up - fitting the return cranks as you must appreciate is not something I would like to do every day. I reamed them so they would fit the axle ends, which left a very thin wall of material standing, then I bent them in a Z shape. First they were fitted on to the return rods. I went a little too heavy on the solder, but it went all right - just. Then, after checking for true running of the connecting rods, I put a paper scrap on the crank pin and soldered the return cranks on, with a tiny trailing angle. Again, the solder flowed a little too fast and I almost locked up everything. The tiny grindstone came out again to remove some of it.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3447.jpg&hash=e4469ab6807da5367ed31d56ae1e5471a8a802b1)
In close-up it looks terrible, but I assure you it runs true. I spun the wheels at high speed to see if anything would fall off, and it didn't. Finally, a few photos of the entire running gear assembled and the loco on the track:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3454.jpg&hash=f68289195cf5053c49697b73db9e3341e1af9fb9)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3461.jpg&hash=e44e5eb363f67e36f2524682eed5211d97e9c105)
No motor yet, but here is a video of the loco being pushed into view by the Garratt. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrcjfH8n4CA)
The truck and the bogie don't seem to track properly by the way - they catch on a point blade. And I need to move the radius rod up a little, so the halved expansion link moves up....
I hope I may now be excused for a while! :)
Ted,
I have been watching this thread with fascination. I don't have anything to add to your excellent description of the work, and the results speak for themselves, but I feel I have learnt a great deal just watching.
Many many thanks for posting this.
Frank
Thanks, Frank - glad you like this project. It is a little complicated, but some of the difficulty is due to the use of parts from various sources. A complete Backwoods kit, although no beginner's project, would go together much easier as all the parts fit together a lot better.
Well done Ted - she looks to be a smooth running machine!
If I ever get around to it I'll be building the Roger Christian 8-coupled version, mainly because I've the chassis to do it.
Thanks, David - a 2-8-2 would be an easier route to follow and the model would be easier to balance as well with the longer wheelbase.
Progress at last!
Yesterday evening, after having put off the work due to various other commitments, I decided to have a go at fitting the gearbox and motor of the Kitson. Here is a step by step description of what I have done.
First I assembled the gearbox included with the Backwoods chassis. The bearing holes were reamed out to accept the brass bearings, turning a rat-tail file in the hole:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3906.jpg&hash=dc8cfd2b901ebba261bc3368d27bbc2da52e09d0)
Then I fitted the bearings and soldered them with a tiny bit of solder, by flooding the bearing with flux and placing a tiny snippet of solder next to it. Touching with an iron was enough to fix the bearing in the hole. Then the inside faces were filed flat as shown below.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3910.jpg&hash=90f1fe6f2bc9a1358173fa43b1be735b6115b2a6)
Here is the gearbox seen from the outside before folding up:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3914.jpg&hash=eeebfc47fa5b5a2e62eb13b2e92c4e6c8508ad3d)
Then the gear had to be fitted. Instead of being an interference fit on the shaft it proved to be loose, so I had quite a job to fix it with a drop of CA glue without locking up the bearings. The best way to do this is oil the bearings, add a little cyano glue to the hole in the gear and quickly push the shaft through. Due to the oil in the bearings it won't stick to them. I had cut the shaft to size using a Roco track saw before doing so, by the way. Foresight is everything... The holes in the gearbox and motor mount still look quite neat, but as the motor screws wouldn't fit through them and I needed a bit of play for the meshing process, they had to be reamed out. Here I found the gearbox back plate was etched a bit too small - I would have liked more 'meat' to enlarge the holes. But in the end I succeeded.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3923.jpg&hash=cb1837b87e0bb542b9e11e8fd8509329d1a0e18b)
As I wanted a bigger motor than the Mashima 10x15 included in the chassis kit for this heavy loco, I found I needed about 1mm extra clearance over the motor. So I milled some whitemetal out of the tank/boiler top part of the whitemetal body. I did so using a cutting disc in the mini drill, running it at low power to prevent melting the whitemetal:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3926.jpg&hash=6502c98fe32380ca342b7a5b2654c79b75145fb6)
Here is the result:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3932.jpg&hash=84457d7145e978a06da02b5ff8b18398814b84e5)
And a photo of the clearance over the motor which enables me to press the body on to the footplate so it can be completed as one unit:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3933.jpg&hash=2b29d9e795d51b38e8d80185ed23f4e31dcc4632)
Here is the completed transmission, gearbox in place and meshed, and the worm fixed on the motor shaft. Note that the worm on a Backwoods gearbox will engage to one side of the pinion only. This is normal and will function perfectly well.
Fitting the tiny screws through the gearbox back plate and the motor mount, and into the motor end, is a perfect pain. They refuse to go in and jump all over the place. I work above a tray for this, but even then they escape on to the floor. Luckily this isn't carpeted or you would never retrieve them. The meshing was another tricky job, and at first the worm jammed a little on the pinion. So I had to pull the worm, remove the screws, ream out the gearbox holes some more and repeat the process all over again.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3937.jpg&hash=fd6f4a92fb8a35a1d8f4ec3a97f4c5725e24243d)
Finally, here is the result: a very smooth chassis doing its first trial run blocked up on the workbench:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TScwdf61TSw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TScwdf61TSw)
You may notice the first and second wheels wobble a little. This is mainly due to bearing play and the cranks forcing them up and down. Once the bearings are loaded it is almost gone.
To be continued!
That's very nice and smooth Ted.
It seems a shame to have to file the gearbox bearings down to the side plates of the gearbox, would it not be possible to fit the bearings the other way round so that the machined part of the bearing is on the outside, from the photo's, it looks as if the clearances outside to the frames, and inside to the gears would accept this, or am I being deceived?
Is this kit still available? I have never built a loco kit other than an etching from Worsley Works to fit on a Kato Chassis.
Regards,
BrianT.
Thanks, Brian. To answer your question, I pinched the gearbox sides together a little, as they had to be guided away from the wheels. I think your idea would be better, but I just followed instructions with the Backwoods chassis.
I'm not sure if Meridian still produces the Leek & Manifold kit. Note that this comes without a chassis and many people convert it to a 2-8-2 using a Bachmann chassis. Since this is a large loco, it will do quite well as a 2-8-2. I used a Backwoods L&B chassis with an RT models motion etch to replace the Joy valve gear of the Backwoods chassis.
I fitted the pickups and test ran the loco on the layout using a coal train, and it went through all the curves very well. Only the slidebar bracket hit one of the bridge girders which I solved by filing them down a little and by moving the bridge girders 1.5mm down - they fortunately were stuck on with contact glue only.
Here is a video of the Kitson, finally under its own power at Rae Bridge. It is running quite well, but I'm still worried about the leading truck which tends to climb point blades. The gearing and motor are similar to those of 'Atlantic', and at the end of the clip both can be seen moving together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmUAXVNU6zA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmUAXVNU6zA)
The pickups were fitted to one side only, as the axles are insulated only on one side. So I connected one motor terminal to the chassis. The puckups are phosphor bronze wire, soldered to a strip of PCB which is superglued under the footplate and supported at the other end by a piece of styrene bar:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3954.jpg&hash=d1e7a5027b1af9f97322205c6d8659cd136cdd40)
When fitting the footplate on to the chassis, the pickup springs have to be fiddled on to the rear of the insulated drivers. This is not as difficult as it sounds as they can easily be reached with a fine screwdriver.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3950.jpg&hash=04f0803a8359267797c1526c81f8fbbf20cbefc3)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3948.jpg&hash=40e7fb7c76964370303b8bf2abc4fe367f38e74b)
The problem on the bridge in the Glenclachan Gorge can be seen here. The slidebar bracket and combination lever struck the top of the girders.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3943.jpg&hash=a7b1aeec1f7f01cc00605bf13640c8de4a0b8ce2)
I was able to remove the girders from the bridge, as they had been attached (30 years ago!) with neoprene glue which came loose without too much trouble. I filed a notch in the bottom of each girder, at each end, and fitted them back on the bridge, but about 1.5mm lower than they were. Also, I ground off a little from the brackets on the loco. If you don't know it you won't see it.
The loco now passes over it without problem.
Time now for (I think) a well-earned dram! ;)
Ted
Superb modelling, you must be very pleased the way this project is turning out. Nice comparison of the two models running together.
Well done, enjoy the wee dram, well deserved.
Roger
Thank you Ted, a very nice piece of modelling.
Regards,
BrianT.
Thanks for your kind remarks.
I'm glad it turned out as it did as it was a long haul getting past all the obstacles. I'm still not quite there, but we are progressing. The smooth and quiet drive, as Roger will agree, is a feature of the Backwoods mechanisms. They really are quite good, despite the trouble of making them work. The parts fit together quite well, and the kits contain all you need to make a working loco - unless you have to modify something like I had to.
I realise this isn't a beginner's project. Anyone wishing to start building N/S or brass kits would do well to choose a simple one before progressing. This one is like a 'kit car' combining parts from at least 5 sources. The wheels and the motion needed to be replaced for obvious reasons.
The funny thing is that despite the uneven weight distribution, with 65% of the weight on the rear wheels, it runs quite well. I wonder if I need to change anything. Choosing the bigger motor was a good idea as I have found the Mashima 10/15 a little weak. At least the loco runs at the same speed as the older 'Atlantic'. So we may double-head a heavy train using both.
What's left now? I need to look into the tracking of the leading truck, and then the superstructure needs to be made with styrene parts to prevent more weight aft. The loco will be available for close inspection at Kegworth, although it may only be in primer.
To be continued...
PS - tonight the last thing I did was improve the tracking of the front truck. The axle proved to be at a tiny slant so the truck wanted to go to the right. I corrected that and added some lead, and now it seems to be all right.
Lighting up
Yes, I know the Leek & Manifold never lit the huge acetylene headlights on their locos, but on the C&DR there are evening trains, and in winter when the snows come to Inverlochan Moor the loco crews like to have the road lit up in case of blockages.
Anyway I looked at the whitemetal castings and decided I would try and fit a LED in the headlight. So I drilled a few tiny holes to pass insulated wires through, I drilled a 3mm hole in the headlight casting, and bent the legs of a warm-white LED so it would go in from the back with the legs close to the rear of the headlight casting.
Here are a few photos showing what it looked like before gluing the body to the footplate. First a side view showing the way the LED is bent so the 'legs' go into the top of the smokebox, with the positive lead insulated as this goes to a resistor connected to the pickup unit between the wheels. The thin black wires coming out of the smokebox front will be coiled away out of sight.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3963.jpg&hash=6d67cc0eb6343b3e44664894ccae1494408f61db)
Here is a close-up of the wiring inside the loco body. Note the 1K resistor needed to protect the LED from the track voltage, and the way the headlight was drilled out, with a 3mm hole and a tapered 4mm recess front and back. The front recess gives an idea of a reflector, and the recess in the back will accept the flange of the LED..
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3965.jpg&hash=90a45b8434c1f5dbb6f2cd82dd0a77a22479ee35)
This is what it looks like with the headlight casting installed and the smokebox front glued in. Both the smokebox front and the body have been fitted temporarily using neoprene glue, so I can still access the wiring for possible final adjustments.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3974.jpg&hash=f4687545654b654d80dc53395bff74a30dff85c9)
The well-known silhouette of a Leek & Manifold loco is starting to appear.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3976.jpg&hash=09bf4ec11af5fb710d01ab866732ed1799cd7620)
To be continued.
Good morning Ted, may I pose a question?
You keep referring to "Neoprene glue", what is this?
I presume this is a glue that will hold things together, but can fairly easily be pulled apart, and cleaned off the mating surfaces, to accept a more permanent fixing??
Regards,
BrianT.
Brian,
I also wondered what Neoprene glue is, so I Googled it! Apparently this is the rubbery glue used to repair, for example, wet suits and paddling pools (I am sure other more important uses as well). We live and learn!
Tim
Ted, what do you do to prevent a reverse voltage on the LED when you reverse the loco? (Over 5V applied the wrong way round will usually damage LEDs - or so the data sheets tell us).
Neoprene glue is the kind I think sold in Britain as 'Evo-stik'. It is basically neoprene (a component of rubber) and a solvent, and is used as a contact glue for large surfaces - you coat both surfaces thinly, let it dry for a minute and press the two parts together. I use it without letting it dry first as that isn't practical for small parts. The advantage is you can remove the part without damage, unless it has set very long ago, and you can reinforce the bond by flooding with cyano glue.
The reverse voltage on LEDs? I don't bother and I have had LEDs on my locos for 35 years without any burning out. It cannot be the 1K resistor as the reverse voltage is passed through the resistor without dropping since there is no current.
If you are worried about it, fit a small diode in parallel to the LED, but reverse its polarity.
In some of my locos I have a backup light on the cab which is fed over the same resistor but reversed just like the safety diode. This then takes the reverse voltage instead.
That's interesting.. I feel an experiment coming on to see what size reverse voltage is dangerous to LEDs. It's possible they aren't as fragile as the manufacturers would have us believe...
Yes it surprises me as well, but it never was a problem. I have at least 6 locos with unprotected LEDs either masquerading as headlights or hidden in the firebox. In addition there are several LEDs in structures, lighting up stationary boilers and station canopies, and they run off straight 12V AC, with nothing but a 1K resistor in series. These are lit rather less often, but they would have gone long ago if it was a problem. It may shorten life expectancy though - something that cannot be measured.
Anyway I have moved on and done some work on the superstructure. I decided to use the whitemetal cab front and back, but the bunker rear was made of laminated styrene sheet. Getting the shape right was quite ease as I simply took a set of pliers and bent the styrene, bit by bit. Then I made an overlay using the same 0.4 or 0.5mm material and fitted beading using microstrip.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3988.jpg&hash=cc6d641ffca1bbfef7be2ec920d822b2d1a168dc)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3989.jpg&hash=6b18e090b791f475cce1ca962bbf44d308e573fc)
Adding a little weight at the back (the cab front and back) made me decide to tackle the balance problem. I looked at the thickness of the footplate, which is 2mm solid whitemetal, and decided removing some of that would help. So I took a power drill and set it at a slow speed. Using a very sharp 2.5mm drill I made some holes, then drilled out the three under the bunker to 5mm. The row under the tanks and the cab was cut through using a slitting disc set at a low speed, then I broke out the metal and filed the remainder flat.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3993.jpg&hash=c5b4e2e07d67734194b9ee21468629fc01e169eb)
I reckon I took between 5 and 10g of whitemetal from the footplate behind the wheels, which more than compensates the weight of the cab front and back. I weighed in the loco and found that of its 160g, about 55g rests on the front wheels. That is about the same ratio I have in 'Atlantic', which has run for 13 years. The holes in the footplate will be blanked off with thin styrene.
Now all that is left it making up a removable styrene roof, filling some gaps and fitting final details. Then the can of car body primer will be unearthed!
To be continued.
Here is the latest stage in completing the model. The roof was laminated from three pieces of styrene, with a 0.3mm piece sandwiched between two 0.4mm pieces to capture the double roof of the prototype. I started fitting various whitemetal details - I'm leaving the handrails till after painting. The Centre Models/Meridian body kit is very detailed, though it's funny that no interior details are included, but then the motor protrudes into the cab so I will have to compromise.
Here are the latest photos of the model, which I think looks rather good with the West Clare van:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_3998.jpg&hash=745a1c7b16112468077cbc14f3ff00f1b8fc30e7)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4001.jpg&hash=96b105648e712763ded66cb600c855abd64164ab)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4004.jpg&hash=4a680898325dbfc6332f251ed128a662e37b5745)
To be continued...
Very nice Ted, will you be painting it yourself?
Regards,
BrianT.
Thanks, Brian - yes I will paint it myself, but I'm not yet sure about the livery. Primer first, I'd say. Also, handrails and anything else brass will need to be added after painting.
Having received a scan of the livery details from Tom's book (thanks Tom) I am rather attracted to the North Stafford livery. But nothing's certain yet.
I added some more detail and had some trouble getting the cab steps in place which fouled the bogie on my sharpest curves. Some filing of the bogie and the back of the steps cured that. Also, I fitted the vacuum tank and the vacuum pipes, and one or two details still lacking. The handrails, as I said before, will be left off till after the paint job.
I just ran the loco over the entire layout, hauling a coal train. Due to the foul state of the track I had some trouble to begin with, but a bit of work with the track rubber and the wheel brush took care of that. Note that the tiny limp can be clearly seen. It seems to be unavoidable in a home-built chassis....
Here is the result (video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkQMDG2hqzA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkQMDG2hqzA)
And a few photos showing the extra detail.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4010.jpg&hash=a043796df52dab9b82520860ede2e636c81c9a49)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4014.jpg&hash=329ee8980aba8096437f162d76ad47738d3b40f8)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4019.jpg&hash=dd1dd1e2dc8e2413db2190109208a6d37135f49c)
Apologies if the photos seem to repeat those made yesterday, but I think these are rather better. Also, note the patches of filler on the bunker and the cab front to hide a few gaps!
Loco in primer
Today I removed the body, blanked off the headlight and the pickups, and spray painted the body using a can of car body primer. The styrene parts proved to be up to it. The chassis was painted by hand in a slightly different colour of grey which I had in the box. No problem really since it is only needed as primer.
Here is the result. Note a few corners on the castings that need cleaning up which you only see after painting:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4042.jpg&hash=17afbc24952f8ecc2fe9406547718025c891c75b)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4047.jpg&hash=91d50f25c94f273bf8e5785196359c7ffc07e295)
This is looking superb Ted!
I really must dig out my Kitson body and drop it on the eight-coupled chassis I've got as per Roger Christian.
Thanks, David. Roger's eight-coupled beast isn't bad either! But will it fit through the tight clearances on your railway...? ???
David
Do stop going on about my 2-8-2 L&M locos, you are making me blush with embarrassment. They pale into insignificance compared to Ted's marvellous model. If I remember I will take one to the convention to compare.
Roger
Probably not Ted! Which is why the body is in one box and the chassis is in another and the twain have'ne met yet! I was actually quite surprised that the big Hunslet got through with the roof vent raised!
THEORETICALLY the tightest clearance, the bridge hole at Llanmynach (also the most awkward to rebuild or I'd have done it by now!) will take the Kitson but I think everyone will have to breathe in to get it through as I'm convinced that there's less clearance on the country side than there is on the town side!
That's what you get for building a railway with nothing but Egger, Joueff and GEM TR locos for reference! It was pure luck that the isolating sections in the loco shed were cut with an Egger western loco and tender in mind or none of the big 2-6-2 locos would fit. As it is, I have to be careful about the order they are shedded or they won't pass each other. Charlie Insley said he'd never seen such a small 2-road shed!
Sorry. Bit of thread drift there...
They look the part, Roger, they look good and they're a possible way to have one of my favourite locos working on the railway (loading gauge permitting!)
That said, I wonder what a 2-8-0 or 2-8-2 Lynton loco would look like...
Sadly I'm not going to get to the convention. The timing clashes with my 7
David, so long as you don't give yourself a hernia !!
Roger
Quote from: Tigger on September 06, 2013, 12:28
They look the part, Roger, they look good and they're a possible way to have one of my favourite locos working on the railway (loading gauge permitting!)
That said, I wonder what a 2-8-0 or 2-8-2 Lynton loco would look like...
Sadly I'm not going to get to the convention. The timing clashes with my 7
Quote from: Tigger on September 06, 2013, 12:28
That said, I wonder what a 2-8-0 or 2-8-2 Lynton loco would look like...
Sadly I'm not going to get to the convention. The timing clashes with my 7
To my shame, I see I haven't posted photos of the Kitson in full lined out works grey which it appeared in at Kegworth. So before continuing the tale with painting the Kitson, here are the missing photos:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4197.jpg&hash=82d2447079c357d1809f2979965428357c4cf415)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4211.jpg&hash=cb004859c36b9efca58a579a7c2a35b06e43c2e9)
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Painting the Kitson
Tonight I finally decided I had to get a move on painting the loco so I can take it to Expong next week. Despite the attractive 'works grey' it was in, the loco will be painted in a livery close to the LMS crimson lake, but with some details conforming to the North Stafford state of the loco. The main differences I have been able to make out is a slight difference between LMS 'crimson lake' and NSR 'madder lake' which I won't bother with (howls of sacrilege!) and the black borders on the LMS livery which I find most attractive. In addition, the LMS put their crest in place of the small works plate on the bunker.
Painting a loco with a complex lined livery, in my experience, is a matter of trial and error. What I'm going to try is paint the crimson panels, LMS fashion, using the black lines of the grey works livery as a guide. Then I'll put in the black borders and tank tops. Any glitches (of which there will be a fair number) will then be covered using straw lining made up of pre-painted paper strips. This is what Mick T refers to as the 'fag paper method' which I used in one or two locos. Old 'Ariadne' (http://www.009dutch.nl/cdr/main/foto/motivepower/loco/pict0327.jpg) uses it to good effect, but here I will have to do something about the curved corners.
As soon as the lining is put in I will seal the paper edges with varnish before attempting any correction of the crimson panels and the black borders.
Let's make a start. I have a nice fresh tin of Revell SM331 crimson, which I stirred with one of my matchstick stirrers. The stirring has to be repeated on a regular basis when putting on the paint, as the pigment tends to separate from the oil base. If you dip the brush into it you get a transparent solution that will not dry properly. I put some of the stuff I stir up on the inside edge of the tin where I can easily reach it with the brush.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4566.jpg&hash=9f0bb6f5bd60edfc463317fda12b86f3812f80e1)
The loco body has been removed from the chassis so I won't damage the delicate rodding by all the necessary handling. Here you see the first coat has been put on the panels inside the lining. I'm now touching up the side framing of the footplate.
Note the grey is left in peace so as to minimise the amount of paint that goes on. Probably the red will have to be done twice, the same is to be expected of the black. The cab rear and the bunker have been done in the same session. Note I only paint one side of the loco at this time, and the cab and bunker ends together with the boiler. The other side of the loco will be done tomorrow.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4550.jpg&hash=d58d1863b0c38548a4f6e2558bf876769e2f8679)
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Next I turned to the boiler. I first touched up the part of the boiler that can be seen below the sandboxes and the tanks, then I did the sandboxes for good measure and continued with the boiler top and the dome. The paint is still wet in this view. Note I use the raised boiler band as a guide for the brush so the edge stays as clean as possible. This is one of the tricks in painting a model you learn very early on. The paint still flowed a little on to the tank top, but that can be corrected more easily on the flat surface of the tank tops which will be painted black, LMS fashion.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4556.jpg&hash=401f20c868aeb5621d166acc9730d5299917afcb)
The steam manifold detail ahead of the cab front is in the way when painting the cab. Inevitably you touch parts with red that you don't want to touch, but this can be corrected later on. Again, I use the window frames as a brush guide. These were touched up with black felt tip and they will stay black. Note that the dome is already acquiring its semi-matte sheen as the paint is drying.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4559.jpg&hash=39f54832ca3d68c8d4d97a5ca06daf724d6a190d)
Finally, here are a few photos of the loco after its first painting stage. The grey will eventually be black, and the black lining will be replaced by straw colour.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4569.jpg&hash=3376ffd7eac4fa656d8ef9cf9ce3ba91ef19c68b)
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To be continued!
Hello Ted, probably one of my last posts for a few days. ;)
Are you working in Acrylics or oil based paint?
Regards,
BrianT.
For locomotives I normally use oil based paints. Although I painted one loco (the T&D Hunslet) in acrylic and put on an oil varnish later on. This seems to be keeping very well. The reason for this was that Tamiya do a nice off-black colour called 'NATO black' which works rather better on a loco than pure black. Here is a photo of it. I may do the same on the Kitson.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Fcdr%2Fmain%2Ffoto%2Fmotivepower%2Floco%2Fp4286400a.jpg&hash=925baca622e8bd3d197ecde64bc720d41a3b1860)
The modern oil-based enamels don't cover as well as the old ones did. Probably the solvents have changed to something less harmful. I prefer brush painting - never liked a spray gun or a spray can, although I use it for large areas or for a primer coat.
The colour tends to sink to the bottom of a tin and the solvent lies on top. So I stir the tin and I bring up as much of the colour base as I can, and I take it directly off the stirring tool (a matchstick), or off the inner edge of the tin.
Inevitably the paint will seem to go on quite thickly, but as it dries it will shrink to a far thinner coat - the dome and boiler in the photos now look far better than they did.
Earlier today I painted a 'fag paper' strip in Mick's parlance. Actually a piece of thin printing paper. I found two old tins of gloss Revell paint, yellow and white. These had never been used so the paint inside was rather viscous. Some coaxing with a matchstick and a syringe of white spirit produced paint of the right consistency. I put a few drops of each on the piece of paper and mixed them to a straw yellow shade - perhaps there should have been a tiny spot of brown in there, but I think it will be all right. The paint then was spread over the paper using a brush, with a drop of white spirit to aid the process:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4573.jpg&hash=b7c1a6d307f8be90f8076197fc0936cc77a37325)
Meanwhile I found I have been stupid... A good look at the LMS style colour scheme proves the radiused corners of the lining are very sharp. I think I can get away with straight strips of lining and perhaps cut a tiny bit from the corner. This is very different from the original L&MVR and the NSR schemes. The Crimson Lake panels will therefore be corrected when the lining is on.
I have been working at the tank sides but I'm not happy with the second Crimson lake coat - I think it can do with some rubbing down, followed by a very thin coat to finish. I think the paint didn't flow too well. The coverage is good though. I'm now adding the black edging. The NATO black was finished so I had to make do with ordinary flat black, but it doesn't look too bad.
Rubbing down between coats can be done on surfaces that are accessible, like tank and bunker sides without a lot of detail. I use very fine wet-and-dry (no. 400 or finer) and a drop of water, but always sparingly. I hardly ever need more than two coats to get full coverage and sometimes only one will suffice.
One thing I didn't mention is that I de-greased the tank sides and other exposed areas of the model where it has been handled in its grey state. I used white spirit and a discarded but clean handkerchief.
Right now you'll agree the finish looks awful due to the crimson paint not having run as it should. I will probably have to take a piece of wet-and-dry to some areas to correct that. It is a typical problem of semi-matt enamel, it is neither matt nor gloss and it seems to have taken on the less desirable properties of both.
Tonight I have been busy with the matt black which proved to be much more user friendly. In the end, all the loco will be varnished with semi-matt varnish to get an all-over finish. But we are nowhere near to that stage yet.
Here is a view of the loco as it is now.
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You will notice the rough borders between the red and the black areas. I don't really bother with that as the straw yellow lining strips will be fixed over that so the rough edges will be hidden. In addition, the red will be patched up right into the corners where the lining will show the radiused bits that will have to go. Which I should have thought of before. :'(
You'll also see a few uneven patches in the red areas on the tanks where the paint refused to flow. I should have used some more white spirit.
As I said before, painting a complex livery is a trial and error business. I will do the right hand tank and cab tomorrow, and I hope I will do better with them.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4581.jpg&hash=f5d1e65464f3b852cc5841189113c46c03c69d49)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4583.jpg&hash=5699c4d19a5ec9f5bd713c16f06b2d99ce3e361e)
To be continued.
That looks very nice indeed. :)
Thanks, James - glad you like this loco. But I'm not there yet by far! One stage further in the work, I first tried to even out the trouble spots on the tank sides I did yesterday. Here the tank side is being attacked with fine wet-and-dry. I put on some water, then set to work with a tiny strip of wet-and-dry. This took off the ridges of paint that refused to flow yesterday.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4589.jpg&hash=ce0dafbf9d46c6a5357f70f0a9dff0da111c3802)
Here is the result, showing the areas that were thinned down.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4593.jpg&hash=82efbcbc1a863e5a0170a2546cc65e933bb35f3e)
Next I diluted the crimson paint and tried again, taking opportunity to widen the red areas as the lining has to be closer to the edges. The result is still below standard, but it may improve when the paint dries. Any areas that look too thick will be reduced by at least half. Note there are still a few marks from the wet-and-dry. I mush find some finer stuff than I have now. I will probably have to see how the varnish will improve the surface. Note that I'm not yet unduly bothered.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4600.jpg&hash=046f73947df4329e3706694b2e5d1b8ed7fb0cbc)
Meanwhile, I did the other side, and here the paint has smoothed out much better:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4605.jpg&hash=efbdac77691661c2da20ef75629d07a29f888702)
I think in hindsight it would have been better to paint the tank sides red all over with quick strokes and not to bother with the lining as a guide. That way the red would have smoothed out much better. But the right hand side is good enough for me. If all fails on the left-hand side, I can always remove the paint from the tank and start again.
I'll now leave the paint to dry, with the model in a box lid on the radiator. ;)
Sneak preview
The paint is dry, now waiting for the lining to be applied, and the running gear to be painted.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4609.jpg&hash=8beef143c65ee4cc11529423967493330b2b3074)
Meanwhile, the fag paper operation has started.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4614.jpg&hash=ae80f90f530c6d5e31943ba5bdfda24e3c451816)
The photo above shows the necessary ingredients. I cut strips as narrow as I can from the pre-painted paper, using a sharp scalpel. The tin of semi-matt varnish has been stirred and the varnish brought to easy flowing consistency with white spirit. Then the area for one line is prepared with varnish, and the paper strip is tensioned slightly before applying to the varnished area.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4627.jpg&hash=21fef158bbffb899c33410eb4ed1297fd335fb02)
Note there is a limit to the width of the strip you can apply. My workable minimum is about 0.5 or 0.6mm. Inevitably the line will be slightly overscale at between 1 and 2 scale inches wide. The strips are cut with a scalpel on the tank sides whilst the varnish is still tacky. Any disturbance of the strip is corrected by pushing it in place with the scalpel. Note that the angle at which you hold the model during application of the strips is critical - your working hand needs to be in a relaxed position, similar to when you paint a model.
Here the lining on the tank sides and bunker is completed:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4630.jpg&hash=31ef1c34ee800c2adf98601dbfb7bfc405aa0fa9)
Note the etched brass plates for the loco, by Narrow Planet, have been prepared for final application. They were painted in Tamiya signal red and given a wipe with a cloth after the paint had dried. They will be fitted later.
After correcting the inevitable scratches in the paint next to the lines, the entire tank and bunker area is varnished in semi-matt varnish. Here the varnish is still fresh and very glossy:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4634.jpg&hash=59813717c20dc9fa45de6113a5d8b1625603ea17)
I couldn't resist this:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4638.jpg&hash=f7e01df55a3e6e4277e8d4f93f21d87eff04bb35)
To be continued.
Video of the L&MVLR train on the C&DR, with the loco in its present state - painted but devoid of further detailing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK117MI7Dsg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK117MI7Dsg)
I confess I had a lot of trouble getting the loco to run well this time. Probably due to the chassis having been painted, some surfaces on the bogie that I think touch the frames on curves, didn't slide as smoothly as they used to. In consequence the bogie derailed several times. Investigation needed!
Anyway, I hope you like the video.
Here is the loco sitting on the end of the line at Dunalistair:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4643.jpg&hash=7b3e1d584678cbd9e5067f6e36c76d2f72021c60)
Nearly there!
Tonight I have completed most of the outside detail, bar the odd lamp iron and one or two items that need to be repositioned. What now remains is fitting the cab detail and window glazing, and of course a crew. Note that I toned down the lining a bit using thinned black paint. It seems to work, but perhaps you'd best judge yourself.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4653.jpg&hash=7a8a1a36557fb3f5d10183d7430f292e14eb76ee)
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A rather painful close-up, which apart from some glitches, dust and one handrail out of position shows the beautiful name and works plates by Narrow Planet. Thanks again, Steve - they do very much for the model.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4662.jpg&hash=e3e14d901b8dbdcfc6ef7d6dff288c17e6115eca)
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I think I have now deserved a dram, a book and my bed. Sleep well! :)
Right then. To all accounts the loco is now completed.
I will first show some of the cab detail. The cab is full of motor, but I put a screen over most of the motor, made of the end of a tube that used to contain a drill bit. This suggests the firebox top inside the cab. I painted it in the same crimson lake colour as the outside of the model.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4680.jpg&hash=3ebadb3d4aa1d8fb17d35cf5ab75ed786cf69023)
Left to right can be seen the vacuum ejector (painted bright red), two screw valves suggesting the injector valves, with the pressure gauge right above and some unspecified stuff beneath on the firebox top (the detail doesn't need to be quite correct as long as it looks the part through the windows), and to the right the lubricator.The motor tail shaft is behind the driver and the fireman, in a green sweater and a highland cap, needs to watch his face as he might bump into the brake stand.
The 'injector valves' are N scale buffers. They make excellent valve substitutes. The brake stand is a handrail knob inserted in an aluminium tube, with a piece of wire through it. The reverser will be made the same way once I get round to replacing the present lever.
Below is a view of the back of the cab showing a sliding hatch in the bunker front, and the driver's hand on the regulator.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4682.jpg&hash=503954ac8d57456989b5a30b0e805555b747168c)
Another view of the left side of the cab, showing the driver, the incorrect reversing lever, and the valve wheel for the blower. The blower pipe runs along the left side of the boiler. I didn't model the handles of the sandbox rods. These run over the top of the LH tank. There should be tiny cranks on the sandboxes in the tank and in front of the tank, but I skimped and bent the rods at right angles. The RH sandboxes were operated with a linkage under the boiler, from the LH boxes.
The fire iron racks have been fitted with the appropriate implements, and the fireman left the broom on the LH tank.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4694.jpg&hash=ea80ad8a89fe51b4823f21f7097ce1bf11a4677c)
Another view of the back of the cab, showing the motor (which is invisible from the sides).
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4697.jpg&hash=18648c5b2f026e60da7cdde86105cb7fbb885f41)
Finally, here are three state photos of the completed model. The ashpan can dimly be seen between the drivers and the bogie. Note the pleasant view through the cab revealing all the detail inside. The front and back windows are glazed, and the forward windows in the cab sides.
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Farchive%2F2013%2Fgallery48%2Fimages%2FIMG_4684.jpg&hash=73e9f83bddca9b674f0766f27651fb85bd46d589)
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The loco will now be put into service, but first I will have to clean the layout as it hasn't seen regular service for about 6 months. Undoubtedly I will find some trouble spots during operation, but these are to be solved.
I hope I didn't bore you stiff with my endless chatter about all the details. I think I have (again) deserved my dram for tonight! :)
Cheers
Ted
You have indeed Ted, a lot of work has gone into the Loco, it's been an excellent learn in which had resulted in a model worthy of any layout.
Very well done, and thank you for sharing it with us.
Now if only my current postings had come to as satisfactory a conclusion, but I am making no headway at all with the radio control thread, despite Franks help and great patience, I wished we lived nearer each other.
Anyway, nice to put a face to the postings Ted at Kegworth.
All the very best,
BrianT.
Its been a really interesting story Ted- I was going to say journey but thats only just beginning
The best single move in that last sequence was to tone down the lining, a simple step that makes all the difference. I had doubts about those square corners but the end result is excellent; hope we dont have to wait for another anniversary convention to see it in the UK again
The big lesson for me is to not be afraid of reworking or apparent failure with the chassis. Most problems can be overcome but not sure if my resolve would have been as resilient as yours
Love that centre spread in the Gazette. it would have been even better with the finished loco
many thanks
Peter Smith
Well you're certainly not boring me, Ted.
As I don't own an airbrush, not really practical because of my modelling set up, I've been particularly interested in the superb finish you've achieved with a brush. I always get the impression from the modelling press that if you don't use an airbrush you may as well forget it. I'm sure someone will be trying to paint the loco crew with one soon! You've proved that view wrong and provided some excellent tips for brush painters like me.
I don't think my skill set is up to building a loco from a kit yet but it is posts like this that help to inspire new modellers to have a go. I'd say that dram is well deserved.
Cheers
Paul
Indeed - a superb piece of work, Ted and as usual superbly documented. Well done and thanks. I particularly like your work in the cab. I know from the work I did with locos like the Chiver's Lew, Snowdon Ranger and Cackler kits it makes such a difference; even if it isn't quite correct it just gives a nice finished look to the cab.
Good luck with getting the railway running again. After 6 months it shouldn't take too long to expel the gremlins that have taken up residence!
What's next on the build list? ;D
Thanks, all, for your kind words and interest. I'll try and reply to all of them.
Brian - I'm sorry to hear the radio control thread doesn't make much headway. Problem with electronics is you cannot see what happens to them and one mistake can be final. I know because I have experimented a lot with electronics. I would say carry on and don't let yourself be discouraged.
Peter - you're absolutely right about chassis building which often is a trial and error business. There is almost nothing I tackle which turns out right first time. The main thing is not to get discouraged as the principles involved are very simple.
Airbrush vs brush painting - don't overestimate the finish. It's the semi-matt varnish that fills in the dips in the surface. But apart from an undercoat or track painting I never use spray paint. Spray painting can produce an excellent finish though, in the hands of someone familiar with it. It's just something I never mastered.
Paul - the most difficult thing in a kitbuilt loco is the chassis. I would start with a simple kit that doesn't need a heavily modified chassis. Filling in the gaps of a whitemetal kit takes some care, but I'd say just try it - afterwards you'll be confident to tackle something more complicated.
David - just like you I modelled cab interiors right from the start. I think it adds something extra to each model, particularly if you can easily see into the cab. Here is my first one of 1969:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Fcdr%2Fmain%2Ffoto%2Fmuseum%2F6915.jpg&hash=d2f43a9ffe1a4c791d3674e2b9cc6cbea4509540)
Anyway I'm glad you liked this thread. I have been in touch with Tom Dauben about a transcript for the 009 News, but that wil need some whittling down, I'm afraid!
PS what's next on the build list? I'm not yet sure whether to tackle what I have in mind directly, but if I do it will be quite a break with this thread! ;)
Airbrushing vs Hand-brushing! If only I had the time to improve my airbrushing. My problem is that I do so little that it's a major exercise to set up, which is a shame as it's generally recognised that the air-brushed finish I achieved on 'Sir Theodore' is the best paint job I've done. Plus, at the Ally Pally show LAST year I bought a lovey little compressor that hasn't been out of the box! :-[
That's a nice piece of cab detail, Ted. I'll admit that in the early years I missed a major trick because 'Owain Glyndwr' has a vast empty shell of a cab with no detail - something I aim to rectify because the roof was dislodged after an accident and is only retained with blu-tac pending cab detailing. The two 'Russells' are devoid of cab detail but by the time I got around to 'Argyll' I had a spare Airfix Pug backhead available and 'Lew' was fully detailed using a works drawing. 'Cackler' also has a fully detailed backhead, mainly because someone once said there wasn't enough room and it couldn't be done! ;D
Peter - Ted's right; if you need to build up your confidence then start with a kit that calls for little or no modification to a commercial chassis. That way you know you'll have a chassis which will work and can concentrate on the body. That's how I started, with the GEM Douglas and Dolgoch kits and the later Chivers Vale of Rheidol loco. Even now I shy away from handbuilt chassis, partly because of impatience and partly lack of experience and the time it'll take me to build one.
Ted - as for the next project, I still have the rail-mounted crane to finish (the staff are getting ever more recalcitrant about manually handling heavy loads on and off the flat wagons) and there's a Chivers baby Hunslet which has taken me about 20 years to not finish! Plus there's a Windle tram loco crying out for lining, glazing, naming and finishing. And there's plans for a dining car which I've wanted to build for years...
As far as an article for the News is concerned, great idea - you have all the material there - just needs a bit of cut 'n' paste editing!
I think I've managed quite enough thread drift although as the L&M story is just about done I think I can justify it!
I expect there will be more cutting than pasting, David!
I had intended to take the loco to Expong, but yesterday I was done in by a virus, so regrettably I had to call the trip off at short notice.
Wednesday I had cleaned the entire layout and today I tentatively ran a few trains before retiring to bed due to jelly legs. The Kitson proves to be a reliable runner. I had to file a little off the rear bogie as it slightly lifted the drivers off the track on one curve, interrupting the power. I had it going up and down the main line with an empty coal train (19 vehicles in all) and it copes very well apart from a few slips on the gradient out of Dunalistair.
The lineside at the colliery proved to be more difficult. I had to hack chunks of coal waste (coloured plaster) out of the surface to allow the deep cylinders and motion bracket of the Kitson to pass. Soon I'll be satisfied enough to put the loco to work on the Dunalistair Mail to show off its good looks, or possibly a mixed service as it looks like being an excellent loco for shunting.
One thing I find, which is similar to Atlantic, is the ease with which the wheels pick up dirt. I think the rigidity of the etched chassis causes the wheels to lift off the track more easily than those of a mass produced chassis. Therefore power pick-up is less reliable and a speck of dirt is enough to cause trouble. The Minitrix 2-6-2 will keep going through an inch of muck but the wheels on that have a little freedom to tilt laterally.
Whilst many of you have been enjoying yourselves at Expong, I have been playing trains.
Here is the promised video of the completed loco being run in on coal trains.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT4S34vtZis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT4S34vtZis)
;)
Ted
A super video, well filmed and the use of sound outstanding. The sound editing fits in very well with the train running down the line to the harbour. Your L&M loco does not look out of place in a Scottish setting. In fact it looks just right. A model loco very well done and thanks for sharing your experience of building it with us on the forum.
Roger
Thanks Roger. From you, being an expert loco builder, that is real praise!
To complete the work for today, here is a longer video (without live steam sound) showing many more operations involving E.R.Calthrop.
The loco is now taken off the coal trains and replaces Robert the Bruce on the Dunalistair Mail. The 'Bruce' is a very smooth runner but due to a problem in the transmission it is terribly noisy, so it is due for heavy overhaul. In addition I want to do something about that rear bogie.
Anyway I hope you enjoy this last video - there will be no more for some time to come! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4EtQB_SSqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4EtQB_SSqo)
Outstanding pair of videos Ted. Thanks very much for taking the trouble to make these whilst some of us were slaving away on duty at Expong! ;)
The 2nd video is a super update of the C&DR in general as well as showing that the Kitson is a perfect replacement on the Dunalistair Mail turn. It looked good in the shots alongside the big Garratt as well. The only criticisms are that firstly the video was much too short and secondly, I am now already half a day behind with the Expong photo report!
I'm pleased to see that you appear to be recovering from that nasty virus. Best to lay off the salted herrings and advocaat for a while.....................
Mick
I'm going to go away and cry now.
Ted, these are two wonderful videos of the C&D. Many thanks for taking the time and trouble of filming and sharing them with us.
I'm incredibly impressed with how quiet the L&M loco is.
Sorry to hear you were laid low Ted, especially as you'd been making the effort to finish the loco for ExpoNG but at least you've been able to share it with us.
For my part, yesterday was spent looking over Buccabury for its next exhibition and this afternoon I've been working on the Minitrains crane.
I have yet to clean the wheels on the L&TR locos but at least it's getting run now - averaging half an hour a night.
Thanks again!
Quote from: MickT on October 27, 2013, 12:36
....
I'm pleased to see that you appear to be recovering from that nasty virus. Best to lay off the salted herrings and advocaat for a while.....................
Mick
No I won't - they're excellent disinfectants! ;D
Thanks for your kind remarks, Mick and David.
As I have Meridian models L&MVLR kit, I was thinking of mounting it on a Graham Farish 08 shunter chassis and using RT valve gear. Any advice/warnings that I ought to be aware of?
James.
I have just finished converting the 08 chassis with RT standard cylinders, single slide bars, etc. I found that the coupling rods should really be broached out to fit fully onto the cranks - not just on the smaller face of the pins as would be so if you do not enlarge the holes. This way, you at least have the maximum clearance behind the crosshead. Try to ensure you use the original Bachmann/Farish crank fastenings particuarly on the crank behind the crosshead for the same reason. I replaced the pins provided by RT with brass dressmakers' type. These are easier to solder when making up the crosshead/connecting rod joint. Whichever pins you use (and you need these longer ones in the crank with the connecting rod big end) thin down the heads for both clearance and looks. I did not enlarge the holes on the connecting rods, so they sit on the smaller face of the cranks. I used the small washers supplied with the rods between the coupling and connecting rods - also where I had to use a pin rather than the original 08 pins.
These are my general findings - I have not had experience with the assembly of the Walscherts valve gear, which I understand uses small crushable rivets for the joints, so can not comment on this. The web site says that the cylinders are "coming soon". I suggest that you wait for these first, as the setting up of the crosshead/slidebars and cylinders should be done together.
Thank you. :)
James
I wonder about the robustness of the Farish cranks for such a heavy model. Since I haven't yet built a loco using the same chassis, can anyone shed light on this? I would in any case remove as much weight from the rear end as you can. I would cut out the entire centre from the footplate at the rear and replace it with styrene. Similar to what I have done, replace the cab roof and the bunker backplate. The rear buffer beam can be replaced as well.
The Walschaert gear by RT models is very fiddly to assemble, but it's worth trying for looks. I understand that they now produce the valve gear fret to a greater thickness from the one I used. The rivets included don't crush very easily, as I found out to my dismay. In the end I soldered them and ground off the excess from the back.