009 Society Members Forum

Modelling => Locomotives => Topic started by: tedp on April 29, 2013, 21:16

Title: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: tedp on April 29, 2013, 21:16
Since many modellers struggle with the idea of inside frames on a loco that should have outside frames, I decided to publish an idea that might help many of you. Perhaps this is a murky photo, but it shows how easy it is to convert a RTR N gauge chassis to outside frames. In this case an Arnold 0-6-0 with the centre wheels dropped out, bushes and plastic cranks glued on to the wheel faces and false frames added. All glue and plastic construction, and the loco still runs OK 30 years after the conversion.

The main requirement is that you have a gear driven chassis with little play between the first and last wheelset. A conversion like this can be done inside one evening, with simple tools. The crankpins are tiny brass nails, by the way, and the rods were made up of wire folded around a pin and soldered together. One end of the coupling rod ends in a fork to even out any irregularities in crank throw and quartering, after all this is a 'belt and braces' approach.  ;)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Foddphotos%2Fshiva2.jpg&hash=221405b12da743a846ddf65be628d64681718e1b)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Foddphotos%2Fshiva3.jpg&hash=14b17f4356fee3f735a5f4474746c566aec8c989)

EDIT - if you want to see how it looks in action, try this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09XVY5w4KRw).
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: tedp on April 29, 2013, 21:23
Perhaps it isn't for everyone to do such a modification, but it is far easier than building an outside frame chassis, and the advantage is you have a mass produced chassis that can be replaced if it wears out. The basic steps are as follows, but allow some deviation for each type of chassis:
A neater conversion was done on my Lawley which uses a Roco 0-6-0 chassis, larger wheels fitted but still a gear coupled chassis block. The motor is in the tender by the way. Here I glued cut down roofing felt nails to the wheel faces, and lost wax cranks to them. Otherwise the principle is similar:

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Fcdr%2Fmain%2Ffoto%2Fmotivepower%2Floco%2Fpict0328.jpg&hash=8160075caac86ef3ab251d5faa25a4983c7d2224)
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: tedp on April 29, 2013, 21:26
Re-using the rods that the original chassis came with is best, although you must be prepared to ream out the crankpin holes in the rods, as fitting crank extenders isn't a very accurate process.

I made a few close-ups of the Lawley, showing the running gear. The chassis is unpowered and the metal crank extenders (roofing felt nails) and brass cranks were an improvement on the previous plastic ones which I made from Airfix Pug buffers and rods! The chassis is pushed by the tender and one wheel has a traction tyre to aid the turning action. I have known the chassis to have a bit of rolling resistance due to the gears, so it was pushed with wheels slipping a little. A funny sight. Since I cleaned off all the oil and ony used graphite for lubrication, it runs very freely...

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Foddphotos%2Fimg_2913.jpg&hash=66d9b482d78ecc8baf01d9d81212a56b29875453)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Foddphotos%2Fimg_2918.jpg&hash=e35dd7033b897f22ea89cac79b966056110cbabd)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Foddphotos%2Fimg_2919.jpg&hash=d22b78fd48b2cf435aab4b9d9bd53482f7e03cdd)
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: Otty on May 11, 2013, 22:22
As a newcomer to OO9, I've been reading a fair number of posts on various forums re: chassis & it appears that the KATO chassis is a cheap & reliable chassis. I've a few, just a shame there's no valve gear.

I'm sure I've missed something but does anybody think that there is a way of adding false frames and outside cranks to said chassis (? a 3D "print").
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: rod335 on May 12, 2013, 08:38
Sorry, this is a total non-starter. From what I recall the Kato (presumably 'tram') chassis to which you refer has outside frames and the axles are a push fit into pin-point bearings. To fit flycranks, the axles would have to be extended, thereby losing the pin-point bearings and necessitating an fundamental redesign of the chassis.

Rod
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: Graeme Dunbar on May 12, 2013, 11:00
I'm not sure if anyone has managed it yet, but the Bandai B-train shorty chassis has been mentioned as a possible candidate for a freelance double Farilie:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-Train-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-4-Bandai-N-scale-/360636833322?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53f7a15e2a (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-Train-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-4-Bandai-N-scale-/360636833322?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53f7a15e2a)
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Ft%2FB-Train-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-4-Bandai-N-scale-%2F00%2Fs%2FMzI2WDYwMA%3D%3D%2F%24%28KGrHqZ%2C%21hwE7DNDOuPlBO%2BC5t633%21%7E%7E60_3.JPG&hash=2ecec140581b8bf5d394bbe5d97a119f3943f188)
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: Otty on May 12, 2013, 11:06
Quote from: rod335 on May 12, 2013, 08:38
Sorry, this is a total non-starter. From what I recall the Kato (presumably 'tram') chassis to which you refer has outside frames and the axles are a push fit into pin-point bearings. To fit flycranks, the axles would have to be extended, thereby losing the pin-point bearings and necessitating an fundamental redesign of the chassis.

Rod

Thanks Rod, guess that'll teach me to look at things more closely :-[
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: scratchbuilt on May 26, 2013, 19:28
hi

do u think u could help me do my darjeeling cuz im a big fan of the darjeelings...

plss i would like to have one of my own...

Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: rod335 on May 26, 2013, 20:05
Otty

I hope you didn't think my reply was too curt. It was not meant to be a put down!

Rod
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: Otty on May 26, 2013, 21:06
Quote from: rod335 on May 26, 2013, 20:05
Otty

I hope you didn't think my reply was too curt. It was not meant to be a put down!

Rod

Hi Rod,

Not at all, really pleased you replied - would have messed up a chassis without you pointing me in the right direction so thank you  :)

As I said, I'm new to OO9 (although have modelled OO, O-16.5 & 'G' amongst others) so no real knowledge re: N gauge chassis.
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: Frank on May 27, 2013, 19:07
Rod, Otty,

Just to check, were you talking about the 0-4-0 tram chassis or the Bo-Bo illustrated?

Thanks

Frank



Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: rod335 on May 27, 2013, 19:47
I was talking about the now ubiquitous tram chassis. I think the Badai chassis is built similarly.

Rod
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: tedp on May 27, 2013, 19:52
Quote from: scratchbuilt on May 26, 2013, 19:28
hi

do u think u could help me do my darjeeling cuz im a big fan of the darjeelings...

plss i would like to have one of my own...



You'd have to start building a Langley Darjeeling kit on an Arnold chassis without the false frames. These then can be added. If you need any guidance, drop me a line.
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: Graeme Dunbar on May 27, 2013, 20:16
Quote from: rod335 on May 27, 2013, 19:47
I was talking about the now ubiquitous tram chassis. I think the Badai chassis is built similarly.

Rod

I don't have a Bandai 4 wheel tram chassis (just the Kato equivalent), but I believe this is a photo of the Bandai one which suggests you are right:
(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F9864831%40N03%2F6134151754&hash=db82c5c08bfc7eaf5d233dc0abe0d1be1dc70385)

If the link doesn't work try here towards the bottom:
http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/nspoor/Interesting (http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/nspoor/Interesting)

If there is any mileage in adding frames to a Bandai Bo-Bo chassis then the Tomix ones are constructed in a similar way and are available in various lengths:
http://onlineshop.modellbahnunion.com/Modelrailways/Modelrailways-N-gauge/Tomix-accessories-spare-parts/Tomix-Tomytec-motorized-chassis.htm?shop=union_e&SessionId=&a=catalog&t=34&c=1253&p=1253 (http://onlineshop.modellbahnunion.com/Modelrailways/Modelrailways-N-gauge/Tomix-accessories-spare-parts/Tomix-Tomytec-motorized-chassis.htm?shop=union_e&SessionId=&a=catalog&t=34&c=1253&p=1253)
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: David Prime on March 03, 2015, 19:29
This message is posted well after the last post but I'm hoping to see if Ted will read this. You mention Ted the bushes glued onto the wheels , in the case of the Darjeeling locomotive . Can I ask what you used for bushes or did you buy? The rest of the  explanation I think is quite clear.
Hope you a) read this and if you do b) can help me out.
Thanks Dave P.
Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: tedp on March 03, 2015, 20:34
Hello Dave - I just noticed your message.

I just had a look since I forgot exactly what I did - it's 35 years ago by now. They are plastic bushes about 3mm diameter and 2mm long which I cut from a plastic ballpoint reservoir. They were glued to the wheel faces with contact glue. The cranks are plastic and the crankpins are brass nails. The contact glue deteriorated over time, and when one of the cranks came off I fixed all four using superglue.

The coupling rods were made up of wire, straightened by rolling under a file, doubled back around a pin and soldered together. One end has a loop, the other has a fork which prevents binding since the chassis is gear coupled.

Here is a diagram, which I suppose explains all:

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Foddphotos%2Fcdrno5-3.jpg&hash=4a19e4e5aa99a147522a4d4aac34b6f61c738078)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.009dutch.nl%2Foddphotos%2Fpb279400.jpg&hash=1176b7b4d2fd38b0c15d95f7bf7070e02b7bbf2e)

I hope this helps you along!


Title: Re: Adding false frames and outside cranks to an N gauge chassis
Post by: David Prime on March 03, 2015, 23:32
Many thanks Ted , so ballpoint pen eh .... Brilliant . I'm now working on an old Minitrix 2-6-2 which if it fails I don't mind as I had consigned the chassis as a Dead one . I'll try and use your method and learn from it. Funnily enough the chassis now breathes again.... If this works I'll let you know.
Many thanks , Dave .