009 Society Members Forum

I have just put together an 009 Peco GVT tram loco kit and fitted it with radio control.

The body is on a Kato tram chassis instead of the bulky mechanism it was designed for, and this gives enough room for a single cell LiPo battery (nominal voltage 3.7V) on top of the chassis.  The radio is a 2.4 GHz system from David Tang based on the new systems for electric aircraft models but adapted to "land based" models, and the controller looks like a normal railway model controller with a knob for speed and a switch for direction.

It runs very smoothly and the battery should last at least 3 hours - I have not managed to run it down yet!

Here is a video of the loco running round a train on my "developing" layout (really just track so far):

http://youtu.be/EcuNpjhJ7JQ


and here is a closer look at the loco uncoupling:


http://youtu.be/0gAhnJqODNI


It runs very smoothly.   It's not awfully fast (the video shows it at full speed) but it's fast enough to by prototypical I think.   It has really good slow speed control, like DCC, and of course it does not hesitate at points nor refuse to start without a nudge or a prod.  I think this is the most impressive part, you turn the knob on the controller and it just starts off! 

In the uncoupling video for instance it's very easy to position the train over the uncoupler (I'm using Greenwich couplings with under track magnets).


Frank

That is most impressive - excellent control, too. The first appearance of a new way of control in 009? If it catches on, this is a true revolution.

Thanks Ted.

I put this together to see if it would work and I think the answer is yes, it does work.   Control is very good and it completely does away with the "nudge" when the loco does not start or gets stuck on points which is so annoying and quite a problem for 4 wheel locos particularly as they have fewer wheels in contact with the track.

Batteries have just reached the point where they are small enough to be fitted into a biggish 009 loco.  The issue it not endurance (I think this loco will run for at least 3 hours on the battery in it).   The issue is speed, as higher speed needs more cells which need more space, but modern motors will run OK on low voltage.

Frank

Fascinating and impressively smooth.  Where did you get the radio control gear? (I assume it is not David Tang of fashion shop and restaurant fame  :laugh: )

Edit - Found it! -
http://www.deltang.co.uk/ (http://www.deltang.co.uk/)

Graeme,

The radio control gear is described here:

http://www.deltang.co.uk/

as you have found.

Scroll down to Surface Receivers - surface as opposed to airborne.

The website does not sell them but there is a link to stockists; I got mine from Micron Radio Control.

The receiver is the low power low voltage one that comes with flying leads for easy connection:
Rx41d-v5-W

There is also a larger one that will handle higher voltages and currents.

There are different versions of the receiver that are set up as two channel - one for speed and one for direction -or one channel - speed and direction combined, centre off.   I have the two channel version as above.

The control unit AKA transmitter is the TX21 which you can buy as a kit or ready built - I built mine and it was fine.

Frank

I was impressed with this at the AGM. I think that with a bit of ingenuity, it could be made to take its power from the tracks - with some sort of "keep-alive" circuit to cope with dirt etc.

Thanks Hugh,

I think you are right that it could be made to work on track power.   Using a battery means finding space for the battery, using track power means finding space for a capacitor which should be easier.

You would have to have track power on all the time though.   The current system can be used on a DC or DCC layout.   Using track power you would probably end up only being able to use it on DCC layouts.

Frank

Just a thought, I really like the idea of a loco HAVING to go on shed every now and then (to recharge the battery), say a short length of track DC powered in the shed, the rest of the track being dead. Any takers anyone? Or is there an inherent flaw to this idea?

Rod

There is a bit of a discussion of this on NGRM-online.

As I understand it, it depends very much on the batteries. I had not appreciated how "picky" the new Lithium Polymer (LiPo) batteries are when it comes to charging and charging in a siding, at a station etc would not seem practical.

However, older rechargable batteries such as NiCds are a lot more forgiving, if less "efficient". I believe that the Faller cars in the magnificent Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg have "wing mirror" charging contacts that charge the cars as they are parked, so it is possible.

This suggests a novel twist on running a layout for battery technologies that permit flexible charging: how about a charging point at a coaling/refueling station - or more pragmatically (as you suggest) trickle charging in the engine shed, station or siding?

I think the main difficulty with rechaging LiPos from the track is that they do need very careful control of the charging process.   This means I think that you would have to supply track power to the loco and mount the charging circuit in the loco itself.  You could not just connect the charger to the track as it would not then be able to sense the battery voltage reliably enough.

So you would have to find room in the loco for the charger as well as the battery.

I think that LiPo batteries will last a couple of hours or more between charges, more with intermittent running, and are cheap enough (a few pounds each) to have two and swap them over when needed, so I think that recharging them isn't really an issue.

Frank

I only managed a very brief glimpse of your loco running without track on the glass top of the  Society display case at Rainford but have to say I was very impressed indeed with what I did see!

I suppose the next challenge will be to fit a Robert Thompson (RT Models) Portram powered Lister or even a Portram powered Roco "gravity" skip wagon with the radio control stuff!

For sale - Triang variable resistance power controller - it appears to be obsolete....................

Mick

It depends on the design of the model but the swapping the battery aspect makes me a bit uneasy as it means frequent handling and possible dismantling of the locomotive. It would be less invasive if there was a charging socket under the loco (as in Faller road vehicles) and the loco charged off the track but with the battery in situ.

It would be interesting to investigate what the most effective combination of battery, charging method and running scheme is.

At one end of the spectrum we have the traditional continuous power to the rails and at the other there is full battery operation with separate charging. In between there is the very short term "stay alive" capacitor used on some DCC systems to deal with intermittent electrical contact, but as of yet I'm not aware of medium term storage, e.g.

1. continuous power
2. stay-alive (say from a fraction of a second to a few seconds reserve)
3. station to station
4. one journey
5. part or all of a "shift"
6. one day operation/overnight recharge

With batteries, size and shape is very important as is energy density, but only in terms of miliWatt-hours per cubic metre and not per kilogram. In fact, to an extent, the heavier the battery the better, so what is best for phones and other mobile devices may not necessarily be best for model railway use.

The use of radio control certainly opens up all sorts of possibilities....  :)

The web site mentioned above for these devices shows a transmitter for 3 locos.... (!)

As you say, Hugh, there is a version of the transmitter that will control three locos at once with three speed control knobs.   It works out at less than the price of two individual transmitters so is pretty cost effective.

As Grahame says, swapping batteries is an issue but I have found that the battery lasts for a whole operating session so you don't need to handle it any more frequently than when getting it out and putting it away again.

You could have a charging socket say under the loco instead of having to take it out to charge but being able to swap batteries easily means you can swap a charged one for a used one.

But it's horses for courses.   It's probably cheaper than DCC for a few locos whilst offering at least equivalent control, and can be used on a DC layout along with the DC locos, but does not yet offer sound etc. like DCC nor can you control lots of locos from the one controller.

And it would currently be difficult to convert really small locos and bigger, older chassis which have high current consumption, because of the difficulty of fitting a suitable battery in.

Frank

I had a good play with Frank's loco at Rainford and was incredibly impressed with the controllability and how having an onboard power source improved this. I get pretty good running but this was better.

One tricky thing that occured to me is that I have a stupidly large number of locos so would it be necessary to have a controller per loco or could some sort of switch be incorporated? Different channels for different locos, otherwise it would be only any good for 'one engine in steam'  running.

Definitely a technology which would make trackwork able to be much more realistic NG style. Rust and lumps and bumps which would stall a conventional DC or DCC loco would be fine with self powered RC.

Game on. I'm getting RC twitches... maybe a bespoke layout with loads of mucky, jubilee track...


John W

I am sure that should radio control of trains take off, multiple locos and sound will not be far behind. For example there is no reason why the DCC command stream shouldn't be carried over wireless links, but it would require a combined radio receiver and DCC decoder or a means of interfacing the two. It could be a bit of a challenge in 009 at the moment.

Something like this exists in DC-Car http://wiki-en.dc-car.de/index.php?title=Introduction_of_the_DC-Car_System (http://wiki-en.dc-car.de/index.php?title=Introduction_of_the_DC-Car_System) except here the transmission medium is infra-red.

In fact I guess you could fit DC-Car to trains and either chase the train around with a remote control or put the IR emitters at suitable locations such as signals, sidings and platform ends. (I'm not sure if I understand the system; it may be possible to control cars over longer distances.) The anti-collision aspect of DC-car sounds interesting, though perhaps more suited to trams than trains.

Thanks John, glad you liked the way the loco runs, that for me was the revelation when I built it.

On the controllers, we think of them perhaps as transmitter and receiver but actually they are two microcomputers talking to each other.  

The one I showed you can only talk to one loco at once -in the jargon they are bound together.    You can bind it to another loco but this involves switching off one and switching on the other so would work eg in a fiddle yard but not on the layout.   The chip in the loco is about

Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:01 PM


Having seen Frank's radio controlled loco's at the 009 convention, I decided to have a go myself.



I have ordered the Lipo batteries, switch, plugs and sockets, receiver and transmitter.



I am going to fit the radio control into a 3D printed Tram engine I bought at the convention, which is  designed to run on a Kato chassis.



I have opted for the three train controller kit, as this set up is to be used on my Glen Ogle layout, and I think three engines in steam will be quite sufficient for operational interest on the layout.



To make sure I have sufficient running time available, I am using a 300Ma hr battery, but this will not fit into the loco, so I am going to mount the battery into a permanently attached rake of coaches, the loco's are unlikely to do any shunting on Glen Ogle, which is basically only a train passing through a scenic diorama.



For the switch I have found a surface mount component that is very small, and only requires a finger touching a pad  somewhere to switch a circuit  on or off, so I am going to buy some brass buffers, and mount the wire from the touch pad to the buffers, so that I will only have to touch the buffer to disconnect the battery supply from the receiver, well that's the theory anyway.



Whether I am up to being able to assemble this little hotch potch of components into a workable assembly remains to be seen. :-$



Fingers crossed folks, I might be electrically trained, but that does not include the dark art of electronics, I only hope the instructions a very very clear. :))



More as I assemble the components when they all arrive.



Regards,



BrianT.

The kits and bits have arrived from Hobbytronics and Deltang, so here we go.


I must point out that the success of this venture is NOT guaranteed, as my electronic skills are zilch.


I am fairly competent at soldering, I know to use heat-sinks where possibly required, and I can follow a circuit diagram, so provided the components are properly and clearly marked, I should  be able to follow the diagram.


Having said all that, I have bought a selection of resistors, as you do,  but despite me having a copy of the code colours, my eyesight is not good enough to identify the band colours, despite using a magnifying glass, and measuring there resistance with my multi-meter proves useless as well, so that's a good start.


I will as usual, post my progress, or lack of, with photo's, on here.


I have to report what is possibly all ready a problem, while taking the photographs to post on here, you will see I have plugged one of the Lipo batteries into the charger, just to demonstrate the three items of:-  power supply, USB lead, charger and battery connection,  As the plug of the Lipo battery, entered the socket of the charger PCB, there was a crack, and a smell of fried electronics, nothing is showing any obvious damage on the PCB, but I'm sure something has gone amiss.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6555800x600_zps0928e03e.jpg&hash=47f66679b66273f92bddd6b7492cd4f0916cb241) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6555800x600_zps0928e03e.jpg.html)

Her is the connected combination, I can't see why this would have caused a problem, but I fear it may have, perhaps one of our electronic wizards can tell us.
I am thinking of contacting Hobbytronics who supplied the charger PCB and post this photo??

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6554800x600_zps79f53b6a.jpg&hash=ecc0e466aff0c64e87476170560a60ad4f2d961d) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6554800x600_zps79f53b6a.jpg.html)

From Del Tang, I have purchased the transmitter and receiver kits. Here are the instructions supplied with the kit


(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6548800x600_zpsadaa7d53.jpg&hash=c0a0862010dedfa9493a57d7b039dc7e306769f5) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6548800x600_zpsadaa7d53.jpg.html)

Here is the transmitter kit hardware, I have opted for the controller that can control three separate loco's without having to do anything other than switch on the appropriate control.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6556800x600_zps4dc133eb.jpg&hash=06b7215ca46d6d679a5748379d99d666e42dcc8a) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6556800x600_zps4dc133eb.jpg.html)

Here are the electronic components.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6557800x600_zpsa0932e52.jpg&hash=efdbbe1f658e1417e2b492308b5ee313fce60546) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6557800x600_zpsa0932e52.jpg.html)

Here is the box supplied to hold all the electronic gubbins, along with accurate templates for all the holes.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6558800x600_zpsa1646055.jpg&hash=18fbfc4f2b79789c30430e22484f3339020ff969) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6558800x600_zpsa1646055.jpg.html)

The template fits inside the box perfectly, a scriber pushed through all the marked centres, leaves an indent which can be used to drill the holes, I used a centre drill to stop the HSS drill bit wandering to drill the holes 6mm, I also used the pointed starter point of the centre bit to drill the second hole to stop the potentiometers, used for control, from spinning.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6559800x600_zps1aa925c2.jpg&hash=b26b8ef743363bdaeed0900caa9476201b3f5cc2) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6559800x600_zps1aa925c2.jpg.html)

Using the centre drill to put in the small retaining holes seemed like a good idea at the time as it was still mounted in the pillar drill, but I made a mistake doing this, because doing this resulted in the drill bit snatching, and going straight through at the full size of 6mm, resulting in a rathet large peg retaining hole, whoops.  You can see the oversize hole to the right of the picture.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6560800x600_zps5760db42.jpg&hash=076f38fdf3e76f5a45ac17567c593dd0e83f977c) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6560800x600_zps5760db42.jpg.html)


Here, the switches and potentiometers, are mounted in there respective positions, and the transmitter laid in place, not shown is the 9v PP3 battery, and the wires connecting the various components.  The watchmakers screwdriver is positioned simply to tilt the assembly for photography.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6561800x600_zpsbc318efe.jpg&hash=54b17f555b1525e69ce803cb6d9a5ec6a96d6f1e) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6561800x600_zpsbc318efe.jpg.html)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6562800x600_zps1664c22f.jpg&hash=aeec62b9be70bec87fc9dabdad41cedcdbdad436) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6562800x600_zps1664c22f.jpg.html)


The inside view, again with the loose transmitter PCB module place inside.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6563800x600_zps318d157d.jpg&hash=3488ee4f55c2122a9a774851f5b28d165f2c152d) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6563800x600_zps318d157d.jpg.html)

Here is the tiny surface mount touch switch module that I hope is going to replace the battery on/off switch that is required to stop the battery going completely flat.  When wired correctly, and a wiring diagram is supplied, you only need a bare metal touch plate touching to switch the device on or off, so I thought a metal buffer on the loco or battery carrying coach would act as the touch plate, we will see if my skill level is upto it?

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6564800x600_zps8c0f7f96.jpg&hash=9478db17a8888316b0a8f636c3737ad33cb9d9b0) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6564800x600_zps8c0f7f96.jpg.html)

This is the combination of loco, and battery carrying Lilliput carriage along with the Lipo battery and Del Tang radio receiver, that will be the basis of my experiments for total radio control of rolling stock on Glen Ogle.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6553800x600_zpsa2fcbc74.jpg&hash=388d0a97855adcf8e4af3bad0ba04349d54e31f2) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6553800x600_zpsa2fcbc74.jpg.html)


Well there we are, all the bits to make a three loco controller, I may find it easier to solder the wires to the components, with the components removed from there finished positions, we will see, but rest assured, all the steps will be photographed for you delectation.

Since writing this, I have contacted Hobby Tronics stating my perceived problem, I have received one reply asking for additional information, to which I have responded, but so far, have not received any return help, so I await there response.

Regards,

BrianT.

Hi Brian,

I use a digital multimeter to confirm resistor values - I find the new resistors have the colour bands printed on a grey body, which makes it difficult to work out what the colours are. ALSO 2% tolerance resistors have one extra colour band which makes determining which end of the resistor to start reading them from a nightmare. Hence the multimeter. (I think you can get cheap digital ones)

Your problem with the charger doesn't sound good. It might be a case of acting thick and returning the items! Are you sure you didn't plug the battery in the wrong way round?

Hello Hugh, the plugs and sockets on the battery and the charger PCB can only connect one way, so, provided the pos and neg of both appliances are connected to the same standard, then when I connected the new battery, to the new charger, nothing should have happened, but there was a definite crack, as in a capacitor being shorted out, and this was followed by a smell of burning, so I am sure that something has gone wrong.

Hobbytronics , when told of this, first asked what voltage the mains adaptor that fed the PCB charger was, suggesting that as the mains adaptor had a capacitor in it, (I presume as a smoothing component) if the mains adaptor was not the correct voltage for the PCB charger, maybe when I connected all the components together, the mains adaptor discharged it's capacitor into the PCB charger.

Now this was strange for two reasons:- 1) The mains adaptor was not plugged into the mains, and had never been whilst in my possession, it being taken straight from the box it was supplied in, and 2),Hobbytronics had supplied the mains adaptor, as far as I know, they only supply this one adaptor, and it was the correct voltage for the PCB charger at 240 to 5volts.

I have related all this to the Hobbytronics, who first came back with the capacitor discharge from a wrong supply component. They are now saying to plug all the components together again and plug the adaptor into the mains, and see if it actually does charge the batteries, I must say, it does not sound very scientific, but I will give it a try, with little expectation of a successful out come, I'll be back later if I am not serving tea and bicckies to the Fire Brigade. ;D with the results of the test.

Regards,

BrianT.

you are a brave man Brian but waiting with bated b reath......
Peter Smith

Not really brave Peter, a 3amp fuse and an ELCB were protecting things, the fire brigade bit was for humour.

So with fingers crossed, I have assembled the components together again, and this time actually plugged in and switched on.

The LED lit, but the tiny surface mounted black square between the USB on the left, and the TSB socket on the right more or less burst into flames, but the LED stayed lit, and apart from smoking, the little surface mount whatever, just sat there, with no further incident.

I think we can assume that all is not well with the PCB charger.

The out put voltage at the TSB battery socket is 42Mv, the LED is lit whether there is a battery connected or not.

I am going to Email Hobbytronics again with this information and suggest returning the faulty component to them and see what they say.

Regards,

BrianT.

Brian, I wasn't casting nasturtiums on your abilities - I realise the battery connectors should be polarised. but I have in the past seen the effects of someone who plugged a 15-pin PC screen connector in the wrong way round (you'd think it was impossible, but he'd done it!)

However... It looks like there's a fault with the charger - and now possibly with the battery, so I'd return the lot including the mains adapter - even if it has started working as it may develop a fault later

Hello Hugh, it never crossed my mind that you were questioning my abilities ;) I am appreciative of any helpful comments from anyone, it's usually obvious when the comments are negative, and in any case, written words are rarely a substitute for face to face exchanges, which is why I always try to make clear, when I am trying to convey some information, by repeating the exact thing I am talking about.  It's always easy to type in shorthand if you don't like or are uncomfortable with the computer keyboard.

The above being an example of my rambling answers.

Regards,

BrianT. 

For further information for anyone interested in the customer service of Hobbytronics.

Hobbytronics have replied:-  That's and odd one, because we test all of the chargers once they are
built. Send it back to us and we will replace it. If you can though, it
would be worth checking the output voltage of the PSU, just in case that
is what caused the damage.

Send it to

Hobbytronics Ltd
Ivy House
29 Beckside
Wilberfoss
York
YO41 5NS


I have tested the power supply as best I can, and assuming in the large USB plug, the two outer of the four available connections that can be seen are the two being used, there is 5.1v between them, I did not check the two inner connectors because you will appreciate, they are all very small, even in the large USB, and at 75 years old, my hands are not that steady, and I did not want to short across these pins, so I chickened out.

I hope this is of some assistance to Hobbytronics, and to members of the forum.

BrianT.

Tonight I have made a start on wiring the transmitter.

The circuit diagram was first marked with some of the colours of the wires I was going to use to connect to the transmitter PCB module, red/black, green, yellow, yellow/red, yellow/black, green, blue, and white.

Black was to be used for all the  negatives/0 volt, and red for all the positives.

I did not have all the colours I required for this colour coding, so the yellow/red, yellow/black and red/black was achieved by felt tipping stripes around the base colours of yellow and red.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6576800x600_zpsb807b743.jpg&hash=84c65e4dbbd7a28b8b84da3ef79958172b15ccd0) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6576800x600_zpsb807b743.jpg.html)

An easy way to get the colours and small flexible cabling to use, was from six core burglar alarm cabling which I happened to have from several burglar alarm installations I have done for friends and relatives over the years, this is multi stranded, very thin, and capable of carrying 2amp loading, more thane enough for our purposes.
If you acquire a couple of feet of this six core cable from any burglar alarm installer, the cores will easily pull out one by one from this sort of cut length.  There is an eight core version available which will give you two extra colours, but I have never used it, so I don't know what the other two core colours are.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6572800x600_zps3c118faf.jpg&hash=47bff08a523e998e1e2bdd71b5f6ad108d5db830) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6572800x600_zps3c118faf.jpg.html)

The tools I have used for this job are shown here.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6575800x600_zps809d0b61.jpg&hash=7cd40f01d45e3f1193ae3013912ebbe289799c54) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6575800x600_zps809d0b61.jpg.html)

I decided to mount the PP3, 9v battery and the transmitter PCB on the underside of the lid, rather than inside the box with all the wires, potentiometers and switches as intended.  Deltang supply a flimsy piece of clear acetate or similar material, with which to construct separators for the battery and transmitter PCB.  This might be fine for the single control unit with only two potentiometers and it's three switches, but the three pot controller has four potentiometers, five switches and all the associated wiring, and it does get rather crowded inside the box supplied.  I was going to construct a couple of box seperators from 40th plasticard, but when I purchased the 9volt battery, as ever it came in it's shrink wrapped plastic case, which of course makes a perfect box to contain the battery within the controller, but it would be difficult, I thought, to fix this within the box base as intended, because there is no clear floor to glue to, hence my option of fixing to the underside of the lid.
I carefully peeled the clear lid from it's backing cardboard and tried it in place.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6566800x600_zps090b97e1.jpg&hash=ea1a9cafbdc62541db731d0be8326cc29629400c) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6566800x600_zps090b97e1.jpg.html)

Thee lid has for protrusions that get in the way of mounting the clear cover towards the end of the lid, so I marked where they came on the flange of the clear lid, and using a hole punch, punched a hole so that the lid flange can fit down to the lids flat bottom, I decided to fix the clear battery lid by gluing one end flange to the controller lid, and use the protruding lugs that had to have holes punched for them, as a fixing point, by a method I have not devised yet.  I marked where the clear lid flange would come to on the box lid, and roughed this are up with a fibre glass pencil, and roughed the clear plastic similarly, then applied Evo stick impact adhesive and joined clear lid to black controller lid.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6567800x600_zpse6c4cae5.jpg&hash=e0b917aad57fdb031aab5a69056b226e6e349e47) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6567800x600_zpse6c4cae5.jpg.html)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6568800x600_zpsaf8186ca.jpg&hash=47a3a3314f71d7fdef2746181c59a7a9b3879af8) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6568800x600_zpsaf8186ca.jpg.html)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6569800x600_zpsa68f6466.jpg&hash=2ff5f51b7f7b0deb325d66a264bf8d6c5af4730d) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6569800x600_zpsa68f6466.jpg.html)

I made two cuts in the opposite flanged end to the hinge end and bent up sufficient of the clear plastic to allow the two button clip connector to attach to the battery.   So to replace the battery in future, the two retaining fixings, not yet designed, will be undone, allowing the clear plastic to hinge upwards, which will allow the battery to be removed and replaced.

I will purchase another battery, rescue it's cover, and mount in a similar fashion to hold the transmitter PCB.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6570800x600_zpsc92eb02b.jpg&hash=118065dadc2d3ed9019bf3e151ccb6c5751c063c) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6570800x600_zpsc92eb02b.jpg.html)

I now started on the actual internal wiring of the various components which were all ready mounted in the box base.  I started by making a harness to connect all the components to the negative pole.  Because all this wiring is connected to fixed components, I use single strand cable which allows the cables to be dressed and squared around the components.


(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6573800x600_zps112a3002.jpg&hash=4d12eac81a32d6f59f8f6e057c26bfef8f43364e) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6573800x600_zps112a3002.jpg.html)

I then started to attach the colour coded flexible wires which will go the lid mounted Transmitter PCB.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6574800x600_zps6a510f3b.jpg&hash=37ac670d2aa46c40888e2d7398e44d24554c1b58) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6574800x600_zps6a510f3b.jpg.html)

And that is as far as I have got for tonight, It's taken me as long to type all this up as it has to carry out the wiring I have just described, and it's way past my bedtime.

Tarrah for now,

BrainT.

Right , to continue with the wiring.

I started making the harness for the positive side of the components and this is the result.  I formed a bus bar with a 1.0 mm red core from some twin & Earth, so that I could form it into a good solid bus-bar to which I could attach all the resistors and link wires and try to not finnish up with a box full of loose wires.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6577_zpscfcabf06.jpg&hash=83a2cb21efdb94c2c5c7ee352d07594d79c4d629) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6577_zpscfcabf06.jpg.html)

As I attached each wire, I ticked it off on the circuit diagram, remember, I am doing this by copying, and not because I know what the circuit actually does.  If the circuits do not work, I will not have a clue what's wrong.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6576800x600_zps575fadfc.jpg&hash=80a50969c7b540321aaf55c3cf382033f4b3f001) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6576800x600_zps575fadfc.jpg.html)

You can see the 1.0mm bus-bar along the bottom of the box, and the various components radiating from this.  The assembly does not look very pretty, and does not look like the interior of any mains switch gear control panel that I used to be familiar with, I just hope it works.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6580_zps2ba38a01.jpg&hash=56f7e0a5801a7e301881ab06b80ca829171f2dd6) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6580_zps2ba38a01.jpg.html)

I have gathered together all the flexible connections from the control box interior ready to attach them to the radio transmitter PCB that is to be mounted under the lid.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6578_zps85d6b466.jpg&hash=d9f88b02dd8273a1378b6938e0bcb63590e5ffff) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6578_zps85d6b466.jpg.html)

And connected the battery connection press studs, to the bus-bar red for the positive, and the on/off switch in the negative bus bar assembly. Switching the on/off switch on, resulted in the LED in the switch lighting, so that's a result then isn't it?

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6579_zpsfc06f1a0.jpg&hash=160eac63517dd2c115ba83e69de6428338a02b4a) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6579_zpsfc06f1a0.jpg.html)

I have ordered some connectors to be able to connect the flexible cables to the pin outs on the Transmitter PCB, and I have to solder two, of the provided resistors to the PCB, but unfortunately, I cannot read the rating markings on the damn resistors, and they were not identified in the way they were supplied,  so I need a bigger and better magnifying glass to try and decipher the rating colours.

Well, that's about it for tonight, and it may be some time before I get back to you all on this particular aspect of Glen Ogle, because I got a letter from the Hospital today, calling me in for the replacement hip operation on Wednesday next, the 16th of October.

Apparently I will be in Hospital for three or four days as a routine, and then six weeks before I am properly mobile again, if all goes to plan, so we will see what happens.

I have no doubt I will put in the occasional appearance in the whose on line section of the forum in the coming weeks, but I don't expect to be doing anything constructive. ;D

Regards to all for a while,

BrianT.

I hope the operation all goes well Brian.

Best wishes
Mick

sincerely hope it goes well Brian
The trouble you are going to to make it possible for an electrical illiterate like me to have a go is inspirational and very much appreciated
Peter Smith

Apart from the fried charger circuit it seems you are doing remarkably well for an 'electrics illiterate'.

Hope your hip operation goes well. It's rather a routine job these days but still it's an uncomfortable business. Good luck!

Thank you all for your good wishes. :-* :D

It's nice to know that my posts are being of some use to other members, I'm not exactly electrics illiterate, but I am electronics illiterate, and can only do what I do, by following a circuit diagram, descriptions and other pictures posted, with slight modifications to what I see, if I think I can devise what to me seems a better solution.

One has never done learning, and I am receptive to any suggestions from others on here from whatever source.

I don't think the hospital will let me take my toolkit and soldering iron onto the ward with me, so you are going to have to wait for any further adventures to do with the "Glen Ogle Light Railway". ;D ;D ;D  Unless I can get that intrepid reporter from the "Killin Times" to keep you updated in my enforced absence. ::)

Kind regards,

BrianT.
 

Brian
just to be clear my reference to electrical illiterate was to me, not you. I could not read a circuit diagram to save my life but from your photos I plan in due course to build a battery powered loco
Best wishes once again
Peter Smith

Never entered my head Peter ;), I'm as illiterates as the next man when it comes to electronics, my only saving grace, if any, is the fact that I do have electrical training, but only in the stuff that can kill. ::) :D

Kind regards,

BrianT.

Hope the operation goes well, Brian and that you are soon up and about again.

Best wishes

Paul C

Hello all,
well as you will have worked out, I am not in hospital with one leg hung from a gallows, and family members peeling and feeding me grapes at regular intervals. :D

I have been in hospital, for the most part of today from 7am until 3.45pm, but the operation had to be cancelled as the person being operated on prior to me, had complications, and the Surgeon ran of of daylight I think.

Any way, here I am to lighten your day, with my erudite wit and good humour, well, I think that's what I do,...............where's my coat?

So, until I get the next letter offering a place, I am back to constructing.

Here is a direct request to Frank. for help please:-

As you all know, I have documented all my work on here, stage by stage, and I consider I have reached the stage where the connections to the transmitter PCB can be made, I have ordered online some 3 pin socket skeletons which are made up into 3pin sockets that can be pushed onto the 21 pins of the transmitter PCB, to allow the transmitter to be easily removed should it be required.

So, what do I want of Frank, basically to confirm what I have done, looks ok, and will work.

I have contacted Del Tang, the designer of the transmitter and receiver via email, and laid out exactly what I have done with references to the drawing, and here is a copy of my Email:-



Hello David, I

Hi Brian,

Sorry to hear your operation has not gone ahead, after all the preparation and so on it must be a bit of a let-down.

David T is usually pretty quick to respond but I will try to answer your questions.

The TX you are using is not one I have built but it looks very similar to mine, just more knobs.

I can't really check your wiring from here but one thing I did notice in the photos, it looks as if you have connected the red common that runs round all the controls to the 9v battery whereas I think it should go to the 3.1 v rail.  More of this below.

Answering your questions, the battery shown is the 9v battery and the switch in the 0v line from the battery is indeed the one with the LED in it.  You do need then to connect the other pole of the switch to the 0v on the circuit board, and the 0v line that you have run around the controls.

Incidentally, the board has three rows of seven pins.   All the bottom pins are connected together on the board so any will do for the 0v connection.   Similarly all the middle ones are connected together so you can connect any to the 9v supply.   It is only the top row which are the input/output terminals that are separate.   (This is because the board it is built on is basically an aircraft system intended originally to drive servos and these pins are the servo outputs, so in that application each set of three contacts needs the connection to the power supply as well as the signal. )  So you can connect to the board with three 3-pin sockets, one on one end connected across all three rows to pick up the power connections and the first signal, and the two more just connected to the top row of signal connections.  Hope is makes sense.

The positive supply works like this.  The 9v supply from the battery just goes to the transmitter board.   As I explained above, this can be any of the middle row of pins.   There is a regulator on the board that drops this to 3.1v and you pick this up on the little pad on the board indicated on the diagram.  It is the right most of a row of three pads.  This 3.1v supply is what you connect to the red line you have running round the controls.  It is the top rail on the circuit diagram.   So you have to solder a fairly thin flexible wire to the pad on the board and connect this to your red line running round the controls.  This is probably the most difficult bit of the whole process in terms of soldering.

There is indeed no mode or trim switch nor any components, I just left these unconnected and it works fine.  I suspect that if you do wire through the switches to the power rails then the transmitter will not do what you want it to do but beyond that I can't really comment, so I suggest you remove these connections and leave pins 7 and 8 disconnected.

Hope this helps

Frank

Brian,

Just as an aside, you mention wiring up the three pin connectors, I don't know if you have these yet but usually these come ready wired so you don't have to wire them up, you just connect the other ends of the wires into the circuit.

Frank

Hello Frank, thank you for your very helpful reply, you're a star.

It was very useful to know that the 1st and 2nd row of pins were all commoned, I had worked out how I was going to layout the plugs I was going to assemble thinking the pins indicated by the circuit designer, were the only ones to use, and now that I have your information, the layout will be so much easier, so that's one positive.

Here are the components I have purchased to make my plugs that will plug straight onto the transmitter PCB rather than solder to the pins.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6583800x600_zpsb366ef91.jpg&hash=bf99a16b351270653a9799265fc3b5e07fcb021a) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6583800x600_zpsb366ef91.jpg.html)

Here are plugs I have made up, plugged onto the PCB, I have made up 3 plugs and are configured as two horizontal, picking up pins 1 to 6 , and one vertical picking up pin 7 on the top row, and positive and negative pins below.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6588800x600_zps7c6092c4.jpg&hash=85f09259dec5b3f4e9232ad1eb16d1517a9a0b14) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6588800x600_zps7c6092c4.jpg.html)

The next picture gives a side view of the three plugs and there configuration, but I would like you to note that I have added another socket to the PCB, between the circular end of the capacitor, and the PCB board pins.  This is to facilitate the connections to pin8 (as designated on the PCB) and the 3.1 volt output to the control circuit. As can be seen from the picture, the two pins of the Header assembly I am using to form the additional plug and socket are spaced just about right to pass through the wire holes where you are directed to solder the additional wires to, the six pin header was cut down to just leave two pins of the header assembly, which were pushed through the two holes in the transmitter PCB, carefully solder in place, because the holes are extremely close together, and easy to bridge with a blob of solder.and the excess length removed with side cutters.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6589800x600_zpseb1e25a3.jpg&hash=a54b32c886ebf8d03ef74cce0270958659de0e3a) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6589800x600_zpseb1e25a3.jpg.html)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6590800x600_zps55dfa0d6.jpg&hash=2bb5fe87f7e642300092883d49c5f7afbe416ed1) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6590800x600_zps55dfa0d6.jpg.html)

This shows a full 8pin header, and a cut down section of a header to make a 2pin plug.  The headers will plug into each other so can be stacked if required, so can easily be cut up to make plugs and sockets, which is what I have done.
The two wires I have stripped the end insulation off, twisted and run solder over them, then cut them to length, and pushed them into the holes designed to accept the header pins.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6586800x600_zps8cbd1859.jpg&hash=2a2158b7c408142ce91855b8d2fc57ca533aa7b0) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6586800x600_zps8cbd1859.jpg.html)

They are a good interference fit, but just to make sure they are not accidently displaced, I have run a little superglue down into the wire hole to secure them.      

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6587800x600_zps12e8a6da.jpg&hash=db9074754daa36c7710040b74cf0c4cbe47340e8) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6587800x600_zps12e8a6da.jpg.html)

The red/black wire from the battery press stud connector, has been unsoldered from where I originally incorrectly soldered it, lengthened it with white/black wire ( I am running out of alternate colours, and as I all ready have a red and a red/black in use, I used white with a black marker pen mark.)  and pushed this through the harness sleeving, to be connected via the manufactured plug outlined above, to the pin 8 terminal on the PCB.  I replaced the removed red with a new Green/black wire for the same reason as above, and this has gone to the manufacture plug as the 3.1v feed to the internal box components.  Thank you Frank for pointing out this mistake.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6585800x600_zpsc6a891a2.jpg&hash=299b141d192a349161d75f121e87544d2f901b7d) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6585800x600_zpsc6a891a2.jpg.html)

It's a little hard to make out the green/black replacement for the red, but it is there if look carefully.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6594800x600_zpse8e53590.jpg&hash=aa366fb0790b8a5a0705fef354ebd814bbcbce0c) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6594800x600_zpse8e53590.jpg.html)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6593800x600_zpsc496f2ed.jpg&hash=5bca10bcb10e594dc61abfb05ccf7c4f2985572c) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6593800x600_zpsc496f2ed.jpg.html)

Here is the circuit diagram again, and I am a little uncertain what to do with the mode switch and trim switch circuits.  At the moment, they are hard wired through the switch positions as these are not used.  Now if they are used, does whatever happens happen, when the switch is open, or when it is closed.  If it happens when the switch is open, then I cannot see why wiring it through the switches will make any difference to whatever, but if it happens when the switch is closed, then I have effectively permanently closed the switches.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6595800x600_zps3c686a29.jpg&hash=2f7d8010586447eab8683d5646796b0e6bad8f94) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6595800x600_zps3c686a29.jpg.html)

Frank in his ever helpful reply said:-........"There is indeed no mode or trim switch nor any components, I just left these unconnected and it works fine.  I suspect that if you do wire through the switches to the power rails then the transmitter will not do what you want it to do but beyond that I can't really comment, so I suggest you remove these connections and leave pins 7 and 8 disconnected.

If I do not use position 8, I will have no 3.1v connection to the LED,  and if I do not connect to pin 7, I will lose a supply to, or from one of the direction switches, so I am in a quandary.

I know Frank has not assembled this particular circuitry, hence my posting the supplied circuit diagram, because he understands what is supposed to happen, whereas, I am simply trying to follow instructions.
Help again Frank.



Well until I get some help from Frank, that's got to be it for tonight.

Kind regards, and thank you for your patience in reading through this rather long post.

BrianT.

Quote from: gtmspyder on October 16, 2013, 22:01
Hello all,
well as you will have worked out, I am not in hospital with one leg hung from a gallows, and family members peeling and feeding me grapes at regular intervals. :D

I have been in hospital, for the most part of today from 7am until 3.45pm, but the operation had to be cancelled as the person being operated on prior to me, had complications, and the Surgeon ran of of daylight I think.

Any way, here I am to lighten your day, with my erudite wit and good humour, well, I think that's what I do,...............where's my coat?

So, until I get the next letter offering a place, I am back to constructing....

You must simply love modern health care! Anyway glad you're back again.

Hi Brian,

Fitting an additional socket is an excellent idea.

I have checked my transmitters and you are right about the LED connection from pin 8.   What I did was to connect the pin 8 to the LED in the switch via a 220ohm resistor, as the drawing, but left the mode switch out so it is open circuit.  This allows the board to control the LED which indicates the status of the transmitter.   If you leave a short in place of the mode switch then the transmitter will have a permanent signal on this line and this will I think prevent it from working properly.  You will also have the LED permanently on.    I did have a 220 ohm resistor though which I fitted here as per the diagram, I think you said you did not have one?  It certainly needs one.

The instructions with my kits said that the switches for mode, trim (and also reverse which I think you do not have, I think it may reverse the sense of the controls) are not normally needed.   I took this to mean you simply omit them and leave the circuit open ie not connected.

Frank

Thank you for your condolences Ted, it was a bit of a bummer, but all the staff were very considerate and looked after me, and after all, it is not fair to blame them for the systems inneficiencies.

Regards,

BrianT.

Hello again Frank, thank you for your quick reply, I have looked at my wiring, and found where I can cut the white/black wire in such a way that it effectively removes the shorted out switch, and I can also insert the 220ohm resistor at the same spot, which was supplied with the kit, although my instructions did say that it was not strictly necessary, which was my only reason for not fitting it in the first place, doh.

Well I think you have guided me nearly there Frank, thank you very much.

I've got the Lipo battery to fit in the coach now, with it's associated charging socket somewhere on the coach body, and the leads with on/off switch, to run to the loco, via I think one of the tiny battery plug and sockets which I purchased extra from Hobbytronics, then there's only the receiver to connect to the motor terminals and we are away.

I don't think I am going to isolate the wheel pickups from the motor, I can't envisage any harm coming from having the wheels live to a dead track can you?

Once again, thank you for your help.

Kind regards,

BrianT.

Hi Brian,

I suggest you do isolate one side of the motor, for two reasons:

You might have a short somewhere on the track eg due to a point contact for example and it would short out the motor driver.   If you drive the loco on a stretch of track with a set of points somewhere set against the loco, for example, the two rails are shorted by the point.

Also you might want to run it on your or someone else's layout with power on at some stage.

It's very easy to do.  The long metal strips on the chassis are the pickups.   There are two plastic clips, one is at the end of the long strips.  The other one covers the place where the strips meet the motor contacts which are under the long strips.   Lift this plastic clip carefully.   Pull one of the motor contacts carefully outwards from under the long strip and bend it upright.  Put the plastic clip back and you are done.   Connect the radio output to the motor contact you have just released and on the other side to the long metal strip.

Richard has some very nice photos on his "NP Baguley-Drewry goes RC" thread on NGRM online.

Frank

Hello Frank, thank you for that bit of info, I had not thought about the track as being a danger if fed from the loco wheels, so I will do as you suggest and disable the pickups on one side.

I have just tried to post a long report to you, but when I posted I got the message someone had posted something that I might want to read before continuing to post, which I did, but in doing so, I have lost the very detailed post to your good-self unfortunately, so to make any sense, I am going to have to type it all out again, but in essence, it was basically saying that the unit did not appear to be working.  The on/off LED was not lighting now at all, although earlier in the build it had. 

The LED on the transmitter board was flashing 13 times when the unit was switched on, and then stopped, but some times resumed and continued apparently for ever, but I did not test to destruction. ::)

I have fitted the 220 ohm resistor, and removed the shorting wire that replaced the switch so that it is now open circuit.

Turning any of the four pots has no effect on anything.

Switching any of the S.P.C Over switches has no effect.

Pressing the bind button switch causes the PCB LED to dim markedly.

With the 3.1v wire and pin8 wire disconnected from the PCB, the board on turn on, flashes 13 time, pauses, then continues flashing forever.

With the 3.1v wire connected to the PCB, exactly the same happens.

With the pin 8 connected, ditto the above.

That's about as much as I can glean from playing about with switches and connections on the PCB board and controls.

Interestingly, the supplied notes only tells how to set up the receiver using a joystick controller, not how to do it with the transmitter.

If from the above notes, I cannot make any headway, the I will strip out all the wiring and start again being even more carefull with the wiring.

I will replace all the resistors with new, as I will be unable to recover them from the existing circuit, and I will replace the on/off LED indicator switch with a new one, as I was not impressed with the originals quality, and I may have damaged the internal LED in some way as it did originaly light.

In the mean time, until some incoming mail is able to shine a light on my confusion, or not, ::)I will start work on motorising the loco, fitting the receiver, and installing the Lipo cell into the trailing power carrying carriage

I'll be back later,

BrianT,

Hi Brian,

I am guessing now as I cannot see your installation.

I think the way you had the battery connected before would have meant that the LED on the switch would have come on when you switch on the power irrespective of anything else, so having corrected that it will not just come on as it did before.

I think that the LED on the switch and the one on the board should do the same thing, so if the one on the board is flashing and the one on the switch is not, there must be a problem with the wiring to the LED on the switch.   This could be an open circuit or a short between the LED pins.   Another possibility, not likely if I understand correctly what you have done to fix the power supply connection, is that the LED is now wired the wrong way round.   This can only have happened if you have reversed the LED connection when fixing the power connection, which I do not think you have.

I have tried one of my TXs and found that it operates as follows:   With the receiver also switched on, the LEDs both light and stay on continuously.   I am assuming however that you do not yet have the receiver connected up.   With the receiver switched off, the LEDs again come on continuously.   The only time the LEDs flash about 13 times (it seemed like 13 but I would not swear to it) is if you go into the binding process.

Binding is linking a new loco to the transmitter.  To bind the loco you switch the loco on and watch the LED on the receiver board flash and at a certain point you switch the transmitter on whilst holding down the red "bind" button.   The transmitter searches for the new loco and binds to it.   Whilst it is searching the LEDs flash and when it has found the loco the LED changes to continuous.   If it has not found the loco after 13 or so flashes it gives up and the LED comes on continuously.  That sounds something like what you have described.

Based on the above I think the transmitter is entering the binding mode when switched on, which suggests there is a short to the 0v line on the connection to the bind switch.  If this is the case, none of the other controls will have any effect.

You say that pressing the bind button causes the LED to dim.  This again suggests that there is something wrong with the bind button wiring, it sounds like pressing the button shorts the 3.1v line to 0v but I can't see how this would happen.  I suggest you check the wiring around the bind button.  There must be something wrong there I think.

I think that is about as far as I can go with what you have described so far.   I suggest you check the points above and see if you can find anything.

Frank

Hi Brian,

I have been looking at you circuit diagram which of course is different from mine as it is a different TX.

Can you just check for me that you have R36, R38, R41 and R43 connected correctly please as it occurs to me that a problem with these might also have a similar effect to a short on the bind button wiring.

Thanks

Frank

Thank you Frank, duly noted.

Further investigation will commence soon.

Regards,

BrianT.

Brian,

Can you check R37 and R42 as well please just for completeness.

Thanks

Frank

Hello Frank. Right here we go then.

As you know, my controller has 4 potentiometers, numbered R30..R32..R34..R39 from left to right when viewing the circuit diagram.

I don't know whether there is a right or wrong way to connect them, but they are all connected the same way, when viewed from the rear of the case, with the three solder pins facing down, I have connected 0v to the left hand pin in each case.  I thought that the fixed element of resistance was the same from end to end, with the central connection to the wiper, so that provided they were all connected the same way, they would all give the same results, give or take there tolerances.

The fixed resistances are numbered R31-R33-R35-R36*-R37*-R38*-R39-R40-R41*-R42*-R43*-R44   The numbers with a star behind them are the ones you have asked me to check for wrong connection, as they are fixed resistors, I did not think they had any orientation????

Regards,

BrianT.

Hi Brian,

The way round that you wire the potentiometers determines the sense of the control ie whether you turn them to the left to increase or to the right.   I think that "off" should be with the slider to the 0v end but I'm not sure, I will check my TXs.

The point about the resistors you have starred is not that there is a right way or wrong way round, they are as you say just passive components.   The point is that I think a short to 0v or an open circuit somewhere round there would cause the symptoms you describe by taking the pin 5 to 0v, or the same for pin 7.  (I do not know what effect shorting pin 7 would have but it was worth checking I thought.) I was asking you to check if there was a short anywhere (or possibly a wrong connection by which I mean connecting them to the wrong line).   

For example, a short connecting the switch that is connected across R37 (I can't read its number on the photo of the diagram) directly to the 0v or 3.1v or with an open circuit in the R37 or R38 connection would I think cause the symptoms you describe.

One way you could check this is if you check the voltages at both ends of R37.   I can't read the component values but I'm sure you can work out what they should be, it's just a simple potentiometer, I would guess about 1.0 to 1.5v at the top of R37 and about 0.5v at the bottom.   If the top end is 3.1v or the bottom is 0v there is a problem.   Similarly you could check the voltages at the terminals of the red button.  One should be 0v and the other should be about 0.5 v or 1.5v depending on the setting of the direction switch.   If they are both 0v, or if one is 3.1 v, there is a problem.

Hope this makes sense.

Frank

Brian,

As an alternative, you could check if there is a problem with the controls attached to pin 5 by simply unplugging the three way plug which connects to pin 5 and seeing if the LED on the board still flashes when you turn the power on, or if it comes on normally.

Frank

Hello Frank.

The on/off switch LED is kaput, so that sorts that problem, so I am going to replace the LED element of the switch, with a separate 3mm LED, which I will mount in a more viewable position in the case.

While I'm on with this change, the LED as supplied in the packet, is supplied with dropping resisters to put in series, I can't say what resistance they are, but I am assuming that the resistance is sufficient to allow the LED to be sufficient for mains use, therefore, as I am fitting it to a 3v supply, can I discard the supplied resistor in this application?  And if that is the case, will the 220 ohm resister still be required in the circuit?

I am rewiring the right corner of the circuit box, ( as viewed from my pictures ) this is where the on/off switch wiring and several resistors are clustered together, so to test the switch, I had to disconnect the wires,  and I removed the switch to make things even easier.  I was going to discard the switch altogether, then thought about the LED's I had in stock, and decided I would just replace the LED and take the opportunity to reposition it.  I will also take this opportunity to spread the components a little to open the wiring, if only for fault finding  ::)  Whilst I could find no apparent faults there during disassembly, but it was very difficult to check with the crowding.

One last thing, Frank wrote:-  The way round that you wire the potentiometers determines the sense of the control ie whether you turn them to the left to increase or to the right.   I think that "off" should be with the slider to the 0v end but I'm not sure, I will check my TXs.

From this, I take it that the 0v should go to the end of the resister nearest to the anticlockwise position of the slider to give the usual "Turn clock wise to increase whatever action"? If this is so, then I think my connecting the 0v black where I have done was correct.

Unfortunately Frank, I had started to dismantle the circuit before your last two posts arrived, sorry.  So the voltage tests I cannot do, hopefully, reassembly will deliver the correct operation if my interpretation of the pot connections is correct.

I await the answers to my query regarding my use of a different LED and it's associated resister, and whether I have connected the potentiometers correctly?

Regards,

BrianT.

Hi Brian,

You are spot on with the potentiometers.

LEDs often seem odd.  They are basically diodes.   They light up when conducting so when forward biased.  They do not light when reverse biased but generally have low reverse voltage limits so reverse bias is generally best avoided.   When conducting they need a voltage of a couple of volts or so (depends on the type and colour) to turn on then the voltage will not rise much as the current goes up.   They need a resistor to limit the current to the value needed to generate enough light.  If you omit the resistor the current will be too high for the LED to tolerate.

For an indicator LED like this, the current is usually about 5 mA.    So you need a resistor that will drop a  couple of volts less than the supply voltage when passing about 5 mA.  If you do not include the resistor the LED will likely blow due to the high current.

The LED you are talking about here has a supply of 3.1 v I think and so you need to drop about 3.1 v - 2v = 1v.   A 220 ohm resistor at 5 mA drops 1 v so this will drop the required voltage.  Sounds OK.

LEDs are not used in mains circuits but you may have been supplied with a resistor of about 1k which would do for a typical battery supply voltage of 6-12 v.  If so it will be too high for this application but you do need to include the 220 ohm resistor.


I suggest you press on with the rewiring then test it again.

Frank

Bless you my son, your place in heaven is surely assured. ;D ;D ;D

I will start the reassembly tomorrow morning probably, you did say you were in all day Sunday didn't you. ::)

A very very big thank you for your time and trouble Frank, I'll bet you wished you had talked about something else at Kegworth ;D

Regards,

BrianT.

Hi Brian,

I am just very pleased with the response to Kegworth, there are several people having a go now and I have other similar discussions running elsewhere so you are not alone.

I think radio control has a lot of potential and so I want people to try it as this is the only way to understand why it is different.   I have no commercial interest in this, I am retired now and happy with that, but I do have a bit of an evangelical streak when I come across a good idea.

So I am happy to provide help and encouragement where I can.

Frank

Hello Frank, it's a relief to hear I am not alone requiring help ::) ;D

Here we go with another update:-

1st.  The Lipo 3.7 batteries I purchased are wired to the TSB plug, which is fixed to the batteries, the wrong way round to the TSB socket supplied with the pre-wire leads and extra socket from Hobbytronics,  the red lead iS neg, and the black lead is pos, which is probably why I fried the 1st charger.  I am still awaiting an exchange for this which I have returned to Hobbytronics, although to be fair to them, it was clearly not a faulty unit as I thought.  Coincidently, while I was waiting a descision from Hobbytronics, I purchased a second charger, and some more pre-made leads and the additional plug, so that I could be getting on with things,  

Today, I connected the Lipo battery to the receiver and train to test the newly assembled transmitter, when the receiver LED did not light, I wondered if the new batteries had insufficient charge in them, so I connected my new charger to the battery, and I may have fried the second charger now.  This is when I decided to check the polarity, and discovered that if there is a correct way round to connect the TSB plugs, then either Hobbytronics are not doing it correctly, or the battery manufacturer, which ever, one of them is wrong. >:(

Any way, with the battery leads now reversed from what they were, I have a green receiver LED lit for ten flashes one second on and off  , and then the green LED flashes very quickly on and off.

Now to the transmitter:-

Upon switch on, the PCB board and the new 3mm case mounted LED flash in unison, well that's a first for me. :D  Thirteen quick flashes, a slight stutter and the a slightly slower flash rate forever it seems, and no knob twiddling, switch switching or bind button pressing has any effect.

At first, things seemed to be moving along in the right direction, but I could get no response from the loco.  I had disconnected one sides wheel pickups and soldered one of the receiver leads to the motor terminals, when there was no response again, I removed the other side wheel pickups, and soldered the other receiver lead to the other motor terminal, and that seems to have altered things again, but not for the better.

I really am getting very fed up with this whole exercise.

It struck me tonight, that I can't see how you designate which of the three separate control pots you can choose to bind to,  there are three what appear to be, forward/ reverse toggle switches, yet the pots have a definite centre detent in there travel as though they are for forward and reverse on the pots anyway, so, all in all, I am in a muddle, I don't really know what I am doing, and despite Franks sterling efforts to fill in the whole I am digging, the last bloke I spoke to, doffed his cork dangling trilby and said Gday Pommy ::)

I think I'll just chuck the whole lot into the bin, and stick to what I know.

I'm sorry to all those who have been following my rambling on radio control, in the hope that what I write will somehow help them, but I have to admit, I'm defeated, or I purchase a ready built controller.

Regards from a very frustrated bunny,

BrianT.

Hi Brian,

Very surprising about the battery being wired the wrong way!   At least you have found out now.   Very odd though, as you said you would expect something like that to be consistent, these are intended for people to just plug in to their equipment not have to check first.  Maybe it was intended for a piece of equipment that was itself wired the other way round.

The receiver sounds to be working OK.   The slow flash is the receiver looking for the transmitter it last was connected to.   After a period it changes to scanning for any available transmitter and that is when it changes to rapid flashing.   So far so good.  It is when it changes to the rapid flash that you can initiate the binding process with the transmitter.

With the transmitter, you seem to have sorted out the LEDs which is good.  However it sounds as if it is still entering the "bind" process when you switch it on which suggests a short somewhere around the red "bind" pushbutton.  Normally, when switched on it should just come on steady not flashing.

I suggest you check the voltage either at pin 5 or the equivalent contact on the red pushbutton, whichever is easier.   Without the red button pressed it should have a positive value, with the button pushed it should be zero.  The positive value will depend on S33 the middle direction switch.  One way it should be about 1.5 v, the other way it should be about 0.15v but not quite zero.   Depending on how sensitive your meter is, the best way to check might be to see if the voltage changes from 1.5v to a small value as you change the direction switch.  If it does not move above zero then there is a short to 0v somewhere.

Frank

Hello Frank, smee again. ::)

After another careful look over the circuitry, whilst I drew what I had actually done, rather than the circuit diagram's theoretical circuitry, I have now got to this stage.

Switching on the transmitter gives me 13 flashes of the transmitter PCB LED, and the case mounted LED, then both LED's are off.

Plug in the receiver PCB, and the receiver PCB LED does several quick flashes and then stays lit.

So, all seems as it should be, but no matter how much knob or switch twiddling, there is no response from the motor.

I began to doubt the motor itself, because it is brand new, so I did a straight connection from Lipo battery to motor terminals, and the motor runs.

So I am nor further forward than before.

And I still do not know how to designate which motor pot to which motor, so I just turn them all, I know the inertia pot can mean the motor has a delay when turned in one direction or the other before it starts to turn, but again adjusting the inertia pot from one end to the other has no response from the motor.
So once again, I am stuck.

Regards,

BrianT.

Brian - I sent you a PM

Thank you Hugh, I have replied at length, but not sure I did it right, let me know if you have not received the proposed arrangements to your kind offer of help.

Here is the circuit diagram as I have wired it.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6597800x600_zps868f09d0.jpg&hash=79d5343ff70aa56b0e5d19396751759f4989d5a4) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6597800x600_zps868f09d0.jpg.html)

And below, the circuit diagram as drawn by Deltang, the supplier.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6595800x600_zps3c686a29.jpg&hash=2f7d8010586447eab8683d5646796b0e6bad8f94) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6595800x600_zps3c686a29.jpg.html)

Kind regards,

BrianT.

Brian,

Thanks for posting this, it must have taken a while to draw out!

I have had a look at your diagrams and a few things occur to me.

It looks to me as if you have connected pin 5 to the 0v line.   Tracing through from pin 5 down to the bind switch, you have connected it to the side of the bind button that is connected to the 0v line.   This would cause the LED to flash when first switched on, whatever else you do with the controls.

Also you have the LED connected to the contact on the bind button instead of the 0v line.

I think you have these two connections the wrong way round.  Perhaps you could check this on the transmitter.

Also the 1k resistor on the direction switch 3 should go to 0v not the 1k resistor on speed pot 2.

All three of the motor speed pots should have one end connected to 0v.   You have pot 1 not connected and pot 3 connected to the direction switch.


Hope this helps

Frank

Brian came over this afternoon with his receiver and transmitter.
No, we didn't get them working together.
I do think, however, that I'm closer to understanding how they work.
I'll post some thoughts later after I've contacted Brian and Frank off-line.

Here's a little update on my electronics adventure.


As well as Frank trying to help me from a distance, I had a kind offer from Hugh of Angst fame, who lives reasonably near me in Leeds.


He kindly offered to meet me  and look over my spaghetti for mistakes, so today, I travelled upto, Leeds and took the circuit board with me for him to peruse, along with all the information I had.


I had completely rewired the circuit a few days ago, which still did not operate the loco chassis I had bought, I had also tested the chassis with a direct supply from the Lipo cell to make sure I had not been unlucky enough to purchase a duff chassis, and the wheels spun happily, so the problem definitely lay with my assembly of the 3 pot control assembly, the pre assembled transmitter module that forms the heart of the treble controller, or the loco receiver itself.


After much careful circuit testing, component checking and reading of the supplied circuit diagram, Hugh concluded that I had assembled the circuit with a dry joint where several of the black 0v wires congregate.


That looked promising from my point of view, at least there was something I had done wrong, and Hugh had located and rectified it, but further investigation by Hugh, also pointed a finger at other problems, which were not of my making.


Basically, the transmitter board has two tiny terminals marked 8 and 3.1v where the 2 wires, one feeding the box LED, and one the 3.1 volt feed to the circuit, are to be soldered to.


I had soldered an additional socket to these two terminals, but Hugh concluded that there was no 3.1v at the 3.1 terminal, so he removed the plug I had fitted, and used another 3.1v terminal a little distance away in the centre of the board, and soldered the wire to this, and soldered the LED connector wire to terminal 8 ..


So, that's two problems sorted, things were looking good.


Further circuit testing was then undertaken, and Hugh concluded that he was not getting the results he would have expected at his various test points, and began to suspect two of the pot's.


He then fitted the Lipo  battery to the receiver board, temporarily fitted to the Kato chassis, and the 9v PP3 battery to the transmitter, and started to test for some results, and here, we were back to the results I had been experiencing, no movement from the Kato chassis.


This was not helped by the lack of supplied instructions on how to select which set of the three options available to be bound to the single receiver I was using, and how to select the further two I will have to purchase if ever this equipment works.


So, we admitted defeat, and I returned home.


Thank you very much Hugh for your time and patience.


I will again contact the maker and supplier of the transmitter and receiver boards, hopefully this time I will get a reply,  and maybe I will return the parts for examination.


This may not happen until I come out of hospital now, so my apologies for the delay.


Regards to all,


BrianT,

Well as you can see, I am back from my hip operation.

I went into hospital Wednesday 30th October at 7 am, 9.30 am saw me in the operating theatre, 12.30 I was back on the ward, with a new hip joint, Friday 3.30 pm, 1st November, and I am back home, not bad going eh?

Regards,

Brian T.

Quote from: gtmspyder on November 01, 2013, 20:45
Well as you can see, I am back from my hip operation.

I went into hospital Wednesday 30th October at 7 am, 9.30 am saw me in the operating theatre, 12.30 I was back on the ward, with a new hip joint, Friday 3.30 pm, 1st November, and I am back home, not bad going eh?

Hi Brian,

I hope that there are no complications and that everything's nicely under control. Having had part of my left knee cut out this year (part of the right knee was cut out 13 years ago), I know that it can take a while to get back to normal. I wish you a gentle and speedy recovery.

Best wishes from this side of the channel.

That's quite a quick repair job, isn't it? Hope you're back on your legs soon!

Thank you gentlemen, the only problems are getting into and out of a chair, and into and out of bed, It's quite comical I should imagine watching me manoeuvre :laugh:

Kind regards,

BrianT.

Hello once again, I'm wounded but moving, just. ;D

I have been doing a bit with the radio control for the loco's destined for Glen Ogle.

I have purchased three receivers and had them linked (bound) to my transmitter by David Theunissen who trades under the name "Dell Tang".  

I sent my receiver kit to David when I was having problems with it, and he sorted out my wiring cock-ups, and discovered the receiver supplied was faulty, so even had I wired the transmitter correctly, it still would not have worked.  Any way, all is sorted now, two more receivers purchased, and David kindly bound the three receivers to my three pot transmitter, ready for me to install each receiver into a separate loco.

I do not anticipate having more than three loco's in steam at any one time on Glen Ogle.

It is principally supposed that this is a Scottish Tourist  leisure railway, and only travels between near the village of Lochearnhead on Loch Earn at the foot of Glen Ogle, and initially the head of Glen Ogle, with a possible link down to the village of Killin at the head of Loch Tay at some time in the future, but don't let the people of Killin here it described in that way, they are really passionate about have the wee railway back into there village. ;)

The first Loco I am working on is a Chris Ward 3D printed body of a generic tank tram loco.  This is designed to fit the Kato chassis, and to supply power to the loco.   Because I wanted to make sure I had enough running time for an exhibition day, should I ever be invited, I purchased a larger Lipo 3.7 volt cell than others have fitted, I have adapted one of the Lilliput coaches to accept the battery, and ths combination will form the basis of the Tourist train.

The basic ingredients of this combination are shown here below.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6598800x600_zps46ceabae.jpg&hash=ffa62a9c1c187839a35eb58f71ff67b67a089bdd) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6598800x600_zps46ceabae.jpg.html)

You can see that this is already part wired, but I will go through my construction and adaptations for anyone wishing to follow.


The receiver I decided to place in the coal bunker, as it has a tiny green LED that needs to be observed when setting up the control, and I hope, even with a load of coal in the bunker, this will still be possible.  If you look closely, you should see the red/black battery feed wires leaving the rear of the bunker, and vertically, across the footplate a dark line which is the two brown wires from receiver to motor.


(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6605800x600800x600800x600_zpsf853da6d.jpg&hash=d177891762fc45a4b0c84ebd9ed336f48df17bf2) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6605800x600800x600800x600_zpsf853da6d.jpg.html)

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6603800x600800x600800x600_zps6238389e.jpg&hash=275e5abbbc9ffe99d39919a616aad08d556a0f92) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6603800x600800x600800x600_zps6238389e.jpg.html)

Chris has cleverly left an out of sight hole under the firebox which goes through into the boiler, that can be used by the brown motor wires from the receiver, I assume because he expected anyone going down the radio control route, to put the receiver in the cab.   However, my decision to fit the receiver in the bunker required a further hole from the footplate into the bunker, and another hole from the footplate to the underside.
The bunker hole was formed by using a Swiss round file point as a drill, passed through the under-firebox hole into the footplate and twisted back and forth against the rear bunker wall, until it entered the bunker, at which point it reverted to it's filing properties to enlarge the small hole formed to pass all four wires through from bunker to footplate.  The two Brown wires to the motor passing through into the boiler, the red and black/red passing through the footplate floor to the under side, then through a guide formed from a small piece of un-shrunk heat-shrink glued to a half circle filed in the rear buffer beam immediately under the coupling hook.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6600800x600_zps6e056613.jpg&hash=f2a574add7f4dc71491cdc57fd2b7b7269df206e) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6600800x600_zps6e056613.jpg.html)

And this is where we started with the wires ready to be attached to the following carriage.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6598800x600_zps46ceabae.jpg&hash=ffa62a9c1c187839a35eb58f71ff67b67a089bdd) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6598800x600_zps46ceabae.jpg.html)

Here is the Lilliput carriage with the top unclipped and the internal seating dropped out.
If you look at the right of the chassis, I have fitted a piece of 40th plasticard, vertically, up-to the underside of the windows, super-glued to base and low sides, then a similar piece to fit across the metal weight plate and butting up to the vertical piece.  This is to mount the battery plug onto, in such a way as it could withstand the tugging to and fro of plugging and unplugging the battery for charging purposes.   You might just make out the white plug with it's two solder tags vertical, and the assembly, araldite'd in place ready to accept the red/black battery wires.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6606800x600800x600800x600_zps83bacb84.jpg&hash=9e4429484adb7427d24a848f6747b4e097874533) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6606800x600800x600800x600_zps83bacb84.jpg.html)

I drilled two holes through the floor of the chassis to come through near the vertical bulkhead, so that the wires could rise up the bulkhead and be connected to the two pins on the socket at the top, and leave room to allow the wires to be loose enough to be lost in the space.  Another small piece of un-shrunk heat-shrink was glued in place to guide the wires from the holes towards the loco.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6609800x600800x600800x600_zps7ec09691.jpg&hash=05069ee21556003e82619b68e466e0a2f135f92a) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6609800x600800x600800x600_zps7ec09691.jpg.html)

Turning the chassis over, shows the socket and battery ready to be mated.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6610800x600800x6002_zpsc1b150a0.jpg&hash=21df0bb82c28c23811db011d016e1bb8e42f4416) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6610800x600800x6002_zpsc1b150a0.jpg.html)

And the battery fully inserted into the socket, and showing the araldite reinforcing.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6611800x600800x600800x600_zpsf6947893.jpg&hash=23f40493e2640bbeafd946ac08ab5fd3cb415938) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6611800x600800x600800x600_zpsf6947893.jpg.html)

And that's about it for today, oh apart for this:-

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2Fth_DSCF6613_zps912bc9d3.jpg&hash=93999211f1bd9aa359a1fbbfe2d03c17bfec56f3) (http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af229/gtmspyder/DSCF6613_zps912bc9d3.mp4)

                                                 Click on the picture.

                                                        :D :D :D


Regards,

BrianT.

Glad to see you got this working. I have a Snailbeach Dennis that has room for extra stuff. Hmm, I wonder...

Worth a try, the receiver will go anywhere that a DCC modue will fit, it's the battery that need thought and research for sizes, all the best.

BrianT.

Well done; you must be greatly encouraged that it works!

BTW I think _that_ piece goes _there_    ;D

I'll tell her Hugh. ;D

Regards,

BrianT.

As I have got the electronics sorted, I think. ::)  I am going to transfer the rest of the loco build modelling to a new thread, or maybe back to the Glen Ogle thread, which do you all think would make more sense??

Regards,

BrianT.

Hi BrianT. Could I ask which receivers you used as I was exploring the Deltang website and found some of the information confusing.
I applaud you loudly for you persistence and am truly glad it all now works. I have been following the development of the Wifi/Bluetooth system being developed but this is so much better.
One thing I do concur with is the charging of Lipo cells. Definitely not a good idea to use the track/wheels/pickups as false readings will cause havoc with the charging as it does with normal running of DC locos. One speck of dust and either over charge or no charge.
MikeB.

Hi Mike,

The Deltang website can be a bit confusing as there are so many variants, and it depends on what you want to do and which transmitters you want to use.

The receivers for loco control are in the "surface" section part the way down the webpage.  That's surface as opposed to airborne.  The surface ones have speed controllers that can drive the motors in reverse, not often needed for aircraft models!

There are basically two series, a low power Rx4 series and a higher power Rx6 series.  The Rx4 is fine for things like the Kato tram chassis, the higher power ones might be needed for motors that need higher voltages or take higher currents.

There are different variants which have different combinations of motor control, auxiliary controls eg for lights, servo controls, etc.   The Rx41 seems to be the best for locos.

Then there are different variants which for example have one knob centre off speed and direction control or separate speed and direction controls.   Also there is a system for switching between locos from a single controller called "Selecta".  This needs a specific variant.

Finally the suffix"W" means it has the wires already attached which is very useful.

I have used the Rx41d - 2 v5 W with the TX 21 and it works very well, as it will with the Tx20, but it will not work with the Selecta system.  It gives speed and direction control separated on the transmitter as the knob for speed and the switch for direction.   The  Rx41d - 1 v5 W gives centre off speed and direction control on the knob on the transmitter.

Brian uses the same receiver with the TX 23 which gives control of up to three locos at the same time but has to have the receivers programmed by the supplier to specific channels on the transmitter.

If you want to use the Selecta system you need the Rx41d - 22 v5 W and the TX22.   This allows you to switch between up to 12 locos but only control one at a time.

Hope this helps.

Frank

Update on useful information.

I use a single cell, 3.7V 300mAh battery, which because of it's physical size, I have mounted inside a Lilliput narrow gauge coach, which is semi-permanently attached to a Chris Ward Kattie Tram loco, mounted atop a Kato chassis.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2FDSCF6830800x600800x600_zps90664853.jpg&hash=e209a7cc003a50261515edcf587c938eeef2360e) (http://s1010.photobucket.com/user/gtmspyder/media/DSCF6830800x600800x600_zps90664853.jpg.html)in length

As an experiment, I fully charged the battery, and set the train going around a temporary track of nine feet on our dining table.

This video is very poor as the auto focus on my still camera was hunting in the poor light, but click on the picture to see the result.

(https://forum.009society.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1010.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf229%2Fgtmspyder%2Fth_DSCF6829_zps3efb50fb.jpg&hash=faada986e4f60bddb1263354de800f726bc81d46) (http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af229/gtmspyder/DSCF6829_zps3efb50fb.mp4)

This ran none stop for slightly over eight hours until the power was shut down to the loco by the receiver, indicating a need for re-charging.

So, we have one lap of the track at nine feet, it takes one minute to traverse three laps.

Eight hours gives us four hundred and eighty minutes of traveling time.

Four hundred and eighty minutes of traveling time gives us 480x3 =1440 laps covered.

Fourteen hundred and forty laps, of nine feet, gives us a total distance travelled in the eight hours of, four thousand, three hundred and twenty feet, or one thousand four hundred and forty yards.

A mile is one thousand seven hundred and sixty yards, so my little train travelled 1440/1760=slightly in excess of 0.8 of a mile in eight hours.

Hope this info gives some encouragement to anyone contemplating going radio control in the future.

You will get a full days exhibition time out of one similar set up of loco and train.

Kind regards,

BrianT.

Maybe this needs a new thread but can Frank or anyone comment on the possibilities for radio control of the new Minitrains 0-4-0. It seems very efficient and smooth running and has a tender.
Mine runs fine and I have deferred plans for tender pick ups. Sooner or later though 4 wheel locos always give me trouble. I n view of the battery life now being achieved I wonder where battery radio control is going. As just an observer of this thread it seems to me that this loco ought to be a contender for the next stage of battery power. If this is inapropriate here just say so
Peter Smith

Although I have been warned that this thread maybe stale I will update and see what happens.
Brian, I see you have put battery and I think receiver into a coach. I was tempted to do the same with small engines but then how do you shunt as this is what having RC in trains is partially all about.
Maybe I need to find something slightly larger than Baguley Drewry to build as a shunter. Good to read that with 300mah you achieved 8 hours. I am using 260mah 1s Li-po.
Question. How do you charge your 1s Li-po. Difficult finding anything here in Aus. There are USB charger but Hobbyking will not ship to Aus. Mike.

Peter,

Sorry, missed this when you posted it.

I have tested the Minitrains 0-4-0 chassis and it runs well on a single lipo cell (3.7v nominal) and draws a fairly low current so should be a good candidate for radio control although I have not tried it as such myself.

As it is a tender loco the tender is the obvious place for the batterry although I can't recall how big the tender is.

Frank

Mike,

If you want a shunter that is simple to convert then try the Narrow Planet RNAD loco.  It runs on the Kato chassis which works very well with a single lipo battery supply and there is space in the hood for the battery and radio if you cut a hole in the bulkhead so the battery extends into the cab.   The switch and charging plug in mine ended up in the cab which is OK as the roof of the cab lifts off as designed.

There is a write-up in one of last years' 009 News and also in another forum.

Frank