The subject of maintenance (and over enthusiastic maintenance) came up on another thread - my fault sorry! To prevent further thread drift and because I think it could be of general benefit, here's this thread.
Nigel Lawton has produced a list general modelling tools "A Modeller's Toolkit":http://www.nigellawton009.com/A_Modelers_Toolkit_V3.pdf (http://www.nigellawton009.com/A_Modelers_Toolkit_V3.pdf)
but what would be the equivalent, purely for maintenance? Similarly, what is a sensible maintenance regime? What greases and oils are preferred and what are the conditions to avoid? (example lubricants and cleaning fluids suitable for use on plastics).
interesting topic
I only use Labelle oils obtainable from traders selling US models; they do various grades including a gear oil. No 8 seems the most versatile for valve gear, wheel bearings and as far as I know it is compatible with all plastics. I keep my track scrupulously clean with surgical spirit and never need to clean wheels. I am still learning that less is more and now apply with a piece of fine wire or a long pin
I have tried Peco products and most of the specialist products on sale to US modellers for track cleaning and conductivity and have found none better than Labelle and surgical spirit.
I often use surgical spirit as a degreasant prior to painting and it works fine;
All usual disclaimers and I know from many years in the hobby that many have favoured lubricants and cleaners that they swear by and would not change
Peter Smith
I have done a few exhibitions now and then over the years. So my models run quite a few scale miles over a weekend. Before every exhibition all the tracks are cleaned, point motors checked and operated as well as checking my rolling stock. Couplings are also checked for damage as sometimes at the end of the previous show things are a bit hectic putting one's models away before dismantling the layout. All locos and rolling stock wheels pick up dirt however cleaned beforehand. So clean your freight and coaching stock from time to time. How you do that is your own preference. I use a fibreglass brush that some of you will probably be disgusted at but very rarely do I have problems. Plastic wheels do have a tendancy to pick up dirt that does need scraping off. Do some of you wonder why your wagons keep derailing? Look at the wheels. I scrape off the dirt with one of my jewellers screwdrivers. I apply any lube oil sparingly with an old brush with very few bristles! Occasionally at shows we have couplings either break or break off the stock so I always have some spares ready to replace any of those damaged.
At shows people often ask how we achieve slow running, the answer is always cleanliness of track and stock.
Roger
As to lubricants for engines, I use simple motor oil intended for cars. This is sparingly applied with a needle or a very fine screwdriver. Motor bearings, and gears, anything. I haven't known plastic gears to fail due to light oiling. When I take an engine apart for maintenance either due to failure on the track or due to having to remedy wear, I always clear away any excess oil that may have accumulated. A favourite spot is a keeper plate under a chassis. An engine taken apart completely will have all its gears and axles cleaned with a paper tissue. I hardly use degreasing agents, unless cleaning a filthy second hand chassis.
Rolling stock is only lubricated using graphite. Like Roger says, plastic wheels collect more dirt than metal wheels, but even those sometimes need to be scraped with a screwdriver. My stock clocks up quite a mileage due to the length of run on the layout.
Good afternoon,
I don't know if a chassis-specific query should sit in this thread but I'll raise the issue and then establish if it needs a new thread.
I have a couple of Arnold Series 2 chassis which won't run. I have established that the motor is getting power but it is not running at all.
I was wondering how to strip down the motor - I have it out of the chassis:
The problems are:
1. I can't see how to get into it
2. What do I clean and how
I have posted a picture just to remind about the motor
I would be grateful for any advice that could be given
Bob Berry
Quote from: berryr99 on April 06, 2013, 17:47
Good afternoon,
I don't know if a chassis-specific query should sit in this thread but I'll raise the issue and then establish if it needs a new thread.
I have a couple of Arnold Series 2 chassis which won't run. I have established that the motor is getting power but it is not running at all.
I was wondering how to strip down the motor - I have it out of the chassis:
The problems are:
1. I can't see how to get into it
2. What do I clean and how
I have posted a picture just to remind about the motor
I would be grateful for any advice that could be given
Bob Berry
Hi Bob
Unfortunately the Arnold motors do have a tendency to burn out. Especially when used on KPC feedback controllers. But other pulse type and feedback controllers can have the same effect.
So my guess is that they indeed burnt out, but you may be lucky.
The first thing to check is if the motor turns by hand and is not seized up or all melted together inside.
Next have you applied power direct to the motor?
I can see both the rectangular brushes in the photo above, so try applying power using a couple of wires from a controller set on about
Bob - the brushes can be removed by lifting the phosphor bronze clips over the plastic studs visible just above the tiny sprung arm pressing on to the brushes. I would remove the brushes first and clean them and the channel in the plastic part of the motor. The commutator should be visible inside the channel if you shine a light into it. Check if it is very worn or dirty.
From what I see, the brush in the photo hasn't worn a great deal as its end is still visible. Clean the brushes, commutator etc using some alcohol or surgical spirit. A discarded paintbrush will do for cleaning the commutator.
Then reassemble the motor and see if it will run.
Brian and Ted,
I followed both sets of instructions to the letter.
The motor was freely rotating and had electrical connectivity internally
I took out the brushes and cleaned everything up - the commutator/contacts and brushes were filthy. I used surgical spirit
Put everything back and the motor is running like a dream !
This is the first motor I have ever fixed.
Thanks guys, I really appreciate this level of expertise and help.
Bob
Gentlemen,
I'm pleased to say that I have just sorted out the other two chassis in exactly the same way !
Thanks again
Bob
Glad it could be fixed! ;D
Just for the avoidance of doubt on my part but is surgical spirit what I call methelated spirit / meths? ???
Malcolm
I was using Surgical Spirit which is sold as such by pharmacists. I don't think its meths although meths is the major constituent.
Bob B.
Isn't Methylated spirit just surgical spirit with an additive added to make it more noxious to drink?
BrianT.
I think both are denatured alcohol (ethanol). To the best of my knowledge:
Meths/metho/methylated spirits as the name suggests contains a proportion of methanol or "wood spirit" (the stuff that makes drinkers of it blind) and so contains a dye and something that makes it taste bad.
Surgical spirit (rubbing alcohol) contains/may contain isopropyl alcohol (IPA) and other substances.
The smell of meths for me will forever be associated with a Triang track cleaning wagon from my childhood and to the best of my knowledge all surgical spirit has an instantly recognisable "clinical" smell.
It is no doubt completely false but perhaps due to the smell I had always assumed surgical spirit left a resinous residue.
Pure "IPA" is a good cleaning agent and available in largish volumes and not too expensive:
http://mistralie.co.uk/products/ipa-isopropyl-alcohol-technical?gclid=CIGZ7tP0u7YCFbLMtAodkk8AFg (http://mistralie.co.uk/products/ipa-isopropyl-alcohol-technical?gclid=CIGZ7tP0u7YCFbLMtAodkk8AFg)
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/390283951465?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0 (http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/390283951465?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0)
A quick check on Amazon and 99% pure IPA is little more expensive than Meths.
I was concerned that surgical spirit was contaminated in some way eg by other antiseptic agents giving rise to a residue but over time I have not found this to be the case
I have mineralised methylated spirit and Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol as referenced in US modelling magazines but have never used as surgical spirit works ok for me
Peter Smith
Quote from: petersmith1942 on April 08, 2013, 21:46
I was concerned that surgical spirit was contaminated in some way eg by other antiseptic agents giving rise to a residue but over time I have not found this to be the case
I have mineralised methylated spirit and Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol as referenced in US modelling magazines but have never used as surgical spirit works ok for me
Peter Smith
I too would be worried that Surgical Spirit contains other agents, giving it a distinct "medical" smell. I have always used Isopropyl, bought at my local chemist in 500 ml bottles - lasts forever!
Tim
Now that I have removed 3 Arnold Series 2 motors from their chassis and cleaned them so that they are running well I have a little problem - what to use to stick them back to the chassis.
I suppose the real issue is that they will need to be removed now and again for further cleaning so whatever is used needs to be able to allow the motors to be removed again.
I'd thought of running a wire round the motor and through the chassis and then tightening it up on top of the motor but I wondered if anyone had any other ideas - especially adhesives. I had thought about Superglue because it can usually be cracked with a scalpel.
Bob
There was no original fixing for the motors as such.
The N gauge body held the motor down with a small spring between the two.
Some 009 body kits have a moulding in the white metal to do the same thing but some do not.
You can hold the motor down with a wire tie temporaraly, but I usualy stick them down with a tiny amount of super glue, so they can come apart again if needed.
Brian Meldon
Bob
I have replaced a number of motors in different chassis, e.g., LH17 5-pole open frame motors in Ibertren and a Fleischmann 0-4-0 chassis. They need support in the chassis block with packing. To do that I use good old EVO-STIK impact glue. I have done the same just this week with EVO-STIK to hold an Arnold motor in the chassis block. I find EVO-STIK is not a permanent fixture, it is a forgiving glue that enables you to remove the motor if the worm does not mesh as intended to re-attach the replacement motor.
Roger
I've got one held in with blu-tak
Mal
I have used silicone sealant with success. It will even fill an empty space if you fit a non standard motor to a chassis. I won't confirm tales of acid corrosion of metal components - never experienced it. Mesh the worm on the wormwheel and fix the motor in place with tape whilst the sealant sets.
Quote from: tedp on April 10, 2013, 10:11
I have used silicone sealant with success. It will even fill an empty space if you fit a non standard motor to a chassis. I won't confirm tales of acid corrosion of metal components - never experienced it. Mesh the worm on the wormwheel and fix the motor in place with tape whilst the sealant sets.
In theory the acetic acid released as the silicone sealant cures could cause problems, but I suspect only if you fixed the motor in place, then immediately re-fitted the body, or put the chassis and motor in some sort of enclosed box, so that the acid fumes could not escape.
Most of my motors, if I can't use the mounting screws for any reason, are held in place with Superglue. Despite warnings of dire problems I've not yet encountered any. And if, for any reason, the motor has to come out, it is a simple job to break the bond as Superglue has little sheer strength. There is, after all, no law that says motors must be screwed to chassis.
Rod
Thank you gents,
Ted - do you mean bathroom sealant such as you would use to seal around tiling ?
With three chassis I will try all three methods I think and see which is the best
Bob
Try to avoid getting any addesive on the locating pins as this may prove difficult to remove in the future.
Brian Meldon
Thanks Brian, I will be carefull
Bob
Bob
Will you be at the AGM? If so we must meet up.
Rod
Quote from: berryr99 on April 10, 2013, 13:04
Thank you gents,
Ted - do you mean bathroom sealant such as you would use to seal around tiling ?
With three chassis I will try all three methods I think and see which is the best
Bob
that's the stuff.
Rod,
Yes - I will try to make the AGM
Look forwards to meeting you
Bob
Gents,
I'm afraid that my lack of experience is about to be highlighted again.
I have got all three Arnold chassis working far better than they ever did thanks to your help.
Now I have a problem with an Ibertren Cuckoo chassis. I've cleaned the motor and it runs fine but there's a problem that one of the wheel contact wipers is not quite getting onto the wheel rim. Its not worn out but for some reason it doesn't quite reach down far enough.
I know its a stupid question but I'm assuming I need to just try and bend it down a little more ?
I have posted a photo of the chassis and the contact wiper is the one just above the front wheel
Thanks
Bob
'Tweak' it by bending downwards with a pair of fine pointed tweezers.
Roger
Once you've done that, you might like to try soldering the contacts on the pickups to the contact points on the motor. I've had trouble with these in the past not making good contact, although they look as though they are, leading to poor running.
Rod
You may find that you have to remove the contact plate from the chassis to bend it back into place on the wheels Bob.
Do not over do the bending though.
Add only enough to hold the wiper on the wheel, all you will do if you over bend it is to slow the chassis down and cause the contact wiper to ware out.
That said the Ibertren chassis will ware out its gears so quickly anyway the contact wipers will probably outlive the rest of it even if you do ov er bend it!
These are very poor quality chassis that at one time were sold new in a plastic bag for
I bend the wipers close to the 'root' using tweezers. During bending you will see the wiper touch the wheel. Bend it carefully but sharply against the spring action of the end of the wiper. That will conserve the spring action after you bent the wiper. Check the spring tension on the wheel. Don't overdo it because you will produce a reverse bend in the wiper and you can start all over again.
Brian
The Ibertren chassis may be 'cheap and cheerful' but they are not as bad as you make out. Their real weakness is the motor. I have replaced one or two with 5-pole open frame motors (LH17 or similar) when the Ibertren motor has expired. I find they run fine providing wheels and pick-ups on the wheel interface(!) are kept clean, free from fluff and track dirt.
Roger
I guess it is all down to personal experience.
These days I have about 15 Ibertren chassis in use in 009/H0e locos and we have been using them on Meanderbahn and Pitztalbahn since they became available in the 1980
Just to add my own experience.
The Ibertren motor now works fine but the chassis is doing everything Brian says - locking up despite modifications to the con rods and a good clean.
The motor is now in my stock cupboard along with a few others.
Not sure what to do with the chassis other than strip parts off it
Bob